Off Topic · new york mets thread- off-season thread (page 1)

well, i am starting another mets thread for the off-season. so far the mets are doing lukewarm with their moves. they manage to resign people. i like that they kept castillo. he played great defense and in august he had timely hitting. he slumped like most of the team in september so we can't hold him accountable for it. still he is a good second baseman. castro is a good backup catcher. however the estrada trade was a good move. it is a risk since he had surgery but he is younger than loduca and loduca clearly slowed down his production. the best part of the deal is that we got rid of mota. we still have a LOOONG way to go before we have a good roster. we need a good starting pitcher. that will be hard but it has to be done. we can't win with the pitchers we have. should we take a risk and get dontrelle willis? the chances of getting johan santana this year is almost none since it would be smart for the twins to wait until the trade deadline. we could need a good outfielder eaither right or left field. we might just let gomez and milledge become the full time starter which is fine. they were inconsistent but they are young and should get better. we kept alou but i don't think he can be an everyday player. he is going to "shawn green"- it next year. estrada is good but they better do more if they want to remain competitive in their own division let alone the national league.

So far so good. Castillo was the best option out there at 2B. I am not impressed with Eckstein and am glad they didn't go that route. What does this mean for Gotay? Getting rid of Mota for Estrada was a blessing. This will allow more playing time for Castro while preventing Willie from turning to Mota in the 7th in any close game. As far as the OF goes, I like what I've seen from Millledge and Gomez. Milledge is an above average OFer, and Gomez has the tools to be a star. With Chavez around, I doubt both are needed. I would much rather hold onto Gomez, even though Milledge is more developed, since he has amazing all-around talent and showed he could handle the majors when he recieved consistent play(hit .300 during the month of June which is when he got the most playing time).

Carlos Gomez has the tools to be a star? take a gander at the #'s your boy put up last year... a .592 OPS is pretty pitiful... he's a career .270 hitter in RK, A & AA level ball w/a .329 on base & .383 slugging... you call these projections of a future star in the making? the guy runs fast, that's about it... please, you tell me i overrate Yankee prospects & rate Melky a career 4th OFer at best yet you call Gomez a future star ... meanwhile Melky was batting .383 w/a .430 OBP in AAA before he got called back up to the majors, & his career minor league #'s are at least 20 points or higher in just about every important category... gotta love your logic.

you really have no idea about Gomez so what's the point?

i'm not the one throwing empty projections outta my ass w/no factual basis to back it up... don't come on the Yankees thread talking trash about Yankee prospects & expect not to get called out on it when u prop up your own guys.

I'm not the only one believing it, Gomez is expected to be a 5tool player. He showed glimpses last season of what he can do when he gets consistent PT. Melky on the other hand has never been touted as anything and only gets PT because the yankees OF defense was horrible.

don't believe the hype, believe what you see... like i told u plenty of times over, ur prospects are severely overrated.

Posted by jazz74:

however the estrada trade was a good move. it is a risk since he had surgery but he is younger than loduca and loduca clearly slowed down his production. the best part of the deal is that we got rid of mota. we still have a LOOONG way to go before we have a good roster. we need a good starting pitcher. that will be hard but it has to be done. we can't win with the pitchers we have.

Below is an article articulating the latest of these subjects. I'm not sure how the Estrada move helps the Mets, defensivly or offensively? In 442 AB, he walked only 12 times. Showing a lack of discipline at the plate. Behind the plate he's only thrown out a meager 13% of base stealers, 11 out of 84. I fail to see the quality here. I also didn't understand why the Mets would sign Mota to a five mil contract, because of the steroid scandal and the fact that he's going to be suspended the first 50? And I know he's not in NY anymore, but what are the Mets up to anyway?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/...

maybe they will trade for a good pitcher. i don't know if they are attractive pieces for someone noteworthy like santana or sheets. however, we need somebody. maybe we will wait until the winter meetings for them to make a significant move.

I think the position players are fine for the Mets. Does anyone think there is any hope to getting Kazmir back from the DRays? And, would you be willing to give up 2 pitching prospets and an outfielder?

Posted by TMS:

don't believe the hype, believe what you see... like i told u plenty of times over, ur prospects are severely overrated.

Right. Now we're going to do what the Yankees do, promise these prospects bazillions of dollars so they fall in the draft to us.

Posted by 93BUICK:

I think the position players are fine for the Mets. Does anyone think there is any hope to getting Kazmir back from the DRays? And, would you be willing to give up 2 pitching prospets and an outfielder?

let me guess, u guys think u can steal Kazmir away for a couple of B Level prospects... maybe if TB hires Jim Duquette to be their GM you guys may be able to get him for Carlos "The Truth" Gomez straight up.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 1:41 PM]

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by TMS:

don't believe the hype, believe what you see... like i told u plenty of times over, ur prospects are severely overrated.

Right. Now we're going to do what the Yankees do, promise these prospects bazillions of dollars so they fall in the draft to us.

gotta love when Met fans complain about the Yankees spending money... play in the same city, have your own cable network, & still u guys wanna pretend like ur some small market team that doesn't have the same privileges & resources as your cross town rivals... like the saying goes, don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by TMS:

don't believe the hype, believe what you see... like i told u plenty of times over, ur prospects are severely overrated.

Right. Now we're going to do what the Yankees do, promise these prospects bazillions of dollars so they fall in the draft to us.

gotta love when Met fans complain about the Yankees spending money... play in the same city, have your own cable network, & still u guys wanna pretend like ur some small market team that doesn't have the same privileges & resources as your cross town rivals... like the saying goes, don't hate the playa, hate the game.

No dummy, I don't want the Mets too spend all that money. I'd rather Joba and Hughes go to teams like the Royals and Pirates. My problem with you is that you act all high and mighty like Brian Cashman and the Yankees organization are "geniuses" for suddenly having all of these prospects. Get real dude, it's ALL about MONEY with you guys.

300 million dollar payroll in 08?

Cashman knew what prospects to hold onto & which ones to deal the past few years... btw genius, we got Hughes w/the pick from HOU that was given to us when Pettitte signed w/them a few years back... no successful franchise is built on money alone... it takes sound business & roster decisions to be successful in sports... any moron would know that but you i guess.

gimme a break w/ur crying for competitive balance... if the Muts were smart enough to go after top prospects worth a damn, you wouldn't be complaining about it right now... i'm sure you'd be very happy to see Jose Reyes & David Wright on the Pirates right about now too... please.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 2:52 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Cashman knew what prospects to hold onto & which ones to deal the past few years... btw genius, we got Hughes w/the pick from HOU that was given to us when Pettitte signed w/them a few years back... no successful franchise is built on money alone... it takes sound business & roster decisions to be successful in sports... any moron would know that but you i guess.

gimme a break w/ur crying for competitive balance... if the Muts were smart enough to go after top prospects worth a damn, you wouldn't be complaining about it right now... i'm sure you'd be very happy to see Jose Reyes & David Wright on the Pirates right about now too... please.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 2:52 PM]

200 plus million dollar payroll is a nice coverup for up all of Cashman's many blunders. Lets stick Cashman on the Marlins and we'll see how God awful he really is. Same with that horrible Joe Torre.

And what exactly does Pettitte signing with Houston have to do with the Yankees promising prospects ridiculous signing bonuses? Genius?

Yes I would like competitive balance and a salary cap. I just don't understand how you as a Yankee fan, can sit and watch the Yankees play the Royals on a Saturday afternoon in July. Whats the point to that game? So Dick-Rod can pad his stats?

The only relevant Yankees season for like the past 10 years was the one that just past because every game was meaningful.

The thing that sucks is now the Mets are forced into spending more money because you have the Yankees, Red Sox and a few other teams offering tons of money to prospects so they fall to them in the draft. The draft is for the CRAPPY teams to improve, not for the good teams to steal away all the top prospects so it continues to be the have and have nots. YOu Yankee fans keep on crying about the Royals, Pirates and Twins not spending money, but what the hell are they supposed to do??????? Do you want them to lose 100 million every season in order for a slim chance that they might win the World Series?

like i said before, hate the game, don't hate the playa... Baseball's system allows for big market teams to outspend their rivals... that's just how it is... don't hate the Yankees for using whatever resources they can to gain a competitive edge when it's perfectly allowed under the current system... so now it's the Yankees' fault that the Mets are spending over $100 million a year to field a competitive team... nice logic behind that one... last time i checked we played in a different league altogether & played each other 6 times a year, but go ahead & keep reasoning to yourself how everything that is wrong about baseball can be blamed on the Yankees... w/o the Yankees, baseball is an afterthought in this country... if the fact that all the national headlines were about ARod's contract situation, Torre's managerial status, & who would be the new MGR of the Yankees during & after the WS doesn't prove that to you, nothing will.

Yes I would like competitive balance and a salary cap. I just don't understand how you as a Yankee fan, can sit and watch the Yankees play the Royals on a Saturday afternoon in July. Whats the point to that game? So Dick-Rod can pad his stats?

& what is the point of the Mut fans proclaiming themselves the best team in baseball after they win 5 or 6 straight from the likes of the Marlins, Pirates, Nationals, etc.? so Rey-ass & Wright can pad theirs? stop being so damn hypocritical... no Met fan has any right to complain about competitive balance.

the only reason the Yankee fans complain about the small market teams not spending money is because the Yankees are freakin' paying about half their damn payrolls from all the luxury tax dollars they recieve from them! get it now???

The only relevant Yankees season for like the past 10 years was the one that just past because every game was meaningful.

LOL... i guess those 4 championships the Yankees won are meaningless now... oh no, what ever will we do now that you don't approve of how the Yankees won championships through the draft & making smart veteran trades to build a championship team, something your own damn team is trying to do right now that you seem to be so damn proud of btw.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 4:15 PM]

Posted by 4949:

Posted by jazz74:

however the estrada trade was a good move. it is a risk since he had surgery but he is younger than loduca and loduca clearly slowed down his production. the best part of the deal is that we got rid of mota. we still have a LOOONG way to go before we have a good roster. we need a good starting pitcher. that will be hard but it has to be done. we can't win with the pitchers we have.

Below is an article articulating the latest of these subjects. I'm not sure how the Estrada move helps the Mets, defensivly or offensively? In 442 AB, he walked only 12 times. Showing a lack of discipline at the plate. Behind the plate he's only thrown out a meager 13% of base stealers, 11 out of 84. I fail to see the quality here. I also didn't understand why the Mets would sign Mota to a five mil contract, because of the steroid scandal and the fact that he's going to be suspended the first 50? And I know he's not in NY anymore, but what are the Mets up to anyway?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/...

This trade was a risk for a risk. Mota sucked, and Estrada just had surgery after the season to remove a bone spur from his right elbow. Minaya is taking a chance he returns to form after the surgery in which case he was excellent defensively, and a career .280 switch hitter.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by 93BUICK:

I think the position players are fine for the Mets. Does anyone think there is any hope to getting Kazmir back from the DRays? And, would you be willing to give up 2 pitching prospets and an outfielder?

let me guess, u guys think u can steal Kazmir away for a couple of B Level prospects... maybe if TB hires Jim Duquette to be their GM you guys may be able to get him for Carlos "The Truth" Gomez straight up.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 1:41 PM]

Prior to last season Joba was rated 75 in the top 100, with Gomez being 60. Gomez was playing very well before his injury, then when he was healthy again, his role was reduced, either pinch hitting or as a D replacement. He was only brought up, from AA, because of injuries. Obviously he was rushed but he adapted quickly WHICH IS WHAT MAKES HIM SPECIAL. Top rookies don't do well unless they are getting consistent play. I don't get what is so hard to understand. Just because a TOP RATED PROSPECT(yes, done outside the mets system even!) puts up poor numbers overall in his rookie season getting sporadic play and an injury doesn't mean he is all of a sudden a bust. Joba's true colors will show once he is used as a starter. He may or may not be good, but you can't judge him yet off 24 IP.

Joba was the most dominant reliever in baseball since he got called up... minor league ratings don't amount to much but best guess projections... when u see a kid like Joba light up the league the way he did, there's going to be a ton of teams out there interested in him... when u see a hyped up kid like Carlos Gomez come up & post poor #'s, it doesn't do much for his trade value.

i never said Gomez was a bust, only that you rate his supposed value way too highly... when GM's trade their best players, they usually are looking for kids that either have dominated at the minor league level, or who have proven on the major league level that they're more than just hype, 2 things that Gomez has failed to do up to this point & that Joba has already shown.

this is why i say the Mets have no chance of getting a guy like Johan or Kazmir unless you're willing to give up a Reyes or Wright, which your team would obviously be averse to do... if u really think u can get a Santana or Kazmir for a couple of B level prospects or completely unproven supposed "blue chippers", that's your prerogative... it's not reality tho... when those 2 guys get traded, their respective teams are going to be looking for names like Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Lester, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Reyes, Wang, etc. in return... guys like Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Mike Pelfrey, Aaron Heilmann, Lastings Milledge, etc. aren't gonna get it done, believe that.

Posted by TMS:

Joba was the most dominant reliever in baseball since he got called up... minor league ratings don't amount to much but best guess projections... when u see a kid like Joba light up the league the way he did, there's going to be a ton of teams out there interested in him... when u see a hyped up kid like Carlos Gomez come up & post poor #'s, it doesn't do much for his trade value.

i never said Gomez was a bust, only that you rate his supposed value way too highly... when GM's trade their best players, they usually are looking for kids that either have dominated at the minor league level, or who have proven on the major league level that they're more than just hype, 2 things that Gomez has failed to do up to this point & that Joba has already shown.

this is why i say the Mets have no chance of getting a guy like Johan or Kazmir unless you're willing to give up a Reyes or Wright, which your team would obviously be averse to do... if u really think u can get a Santana or Kazmir for a couple of B level prospects or completely unproven supposed "blue chippers", that's your prerogative... it's not reality tho... when those 2 guys get traded, their respective teams are going to be looking for names like Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Lester, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Reyes, Wang, etc. in return... guys like Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Mike Pelfrey, Aaron Heilmann, Lastings Milledge, etc. aren't gonna get it done, believe that.

Like i said before, I know you think all the Mets prospects are crap, but GMs and people involved in baseball don't agree. I think they may know a bit more than you, so thanks for playing.