Posted by orangeblobman:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by orangeblobman:
Hey, all those studies aside, all the anecdotal evidence aside, etc., marijuana should be legalized, yes, you can tax it and all that great stuff, cool...
But! -- All of that doesn't change the fact that it is bad for you. It alters your mind and therefore changes the way you perceive and react to situations and people.
If nature wanted you to go through life stoned, son, it would have made you so from the get-go. There is no way, absolutely NO WAY, that someone can smoke pot and be 'themselves'.
lol. then why did nature supply us with pot?
Try to put the bong down for a second-- why did nature supply us with poison plants? why did nature supply us with man eating animals? or volcanoes or hurricanes?
Just because nature "supplied" us with something doesn't mean it has any place in a human body or mind.
to each his own my friend.
To each his own, mate. But try that one year challenge and see if your mind behaves differently.
Posted by bitty41:
Bitty, first off, I don't know why your attacking me by saying my arguement is flawed. If you noticed, I said from the get go that I don't have an opinion. I said maybe it's better the way it is. I also said who cares?
Your statement of "it killing your brain cells" has been used by opponents of legalization of Marijuana for years and when someone finally decided to study Marijuana it turned out those claims were false. I think you and Orangeblob are under the impression that outside of Cancer patients the only people who use it are hippie stoners when in reality this drug is used by people of all ages and backgrounds.
I think you missed the point of my flawed arguement though. I simply stated that marijuana is bad for your brain. No need to attempt to degrade that (Which you didn't) by saying that other things are bad for you too. lol
Again I appreciate you sharing your own experiences but I have to ask what scientific documentation do you have that supports the claim that Marijuana is bad for your brain?
I am in no way trying to diminish your traumatic experience with Marijuana but rather you can't legislate any drug on just one individual experience and use that to imprison people.
If you don't care about the Marijuana laws you should considering that it costs taxpayers over 10 Billion dollars a year to imprison people for charges related to Marijuana.
If you can find in my post where I said that 1) My experience was traumatic, not sure if you were being sarcastic. 2) Where I said pot is for hippie stoners, then I'll admit that you're good. I said it might concern people who smoke a lot of pot.
No I wasn't being sarcastic and I know you didn't use the actual term hippie stoners. But I think your operating under this belief that anyone who uses it on a semi regular basis will eventually lose their brain cells. When in reality people with extremely high powered jobs use Marijuana and have used it for long time periods while still being able to function at top performance.
Again if you do not care about where your tax dollars goes towards then that's your prerogative.
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Maybe functional in the short term, but pot kills your brain cells. It's not good for you.
And saying it should be legalized for the sake of cancer patients is most likely an excuse.
With that said, I flat out don't have an opinion on this subject. It's probably better the way it is now. What's the purpose of making it legal? Who cares besides people who smoke a lot of pot?
Allanfan,
You are very wrong there is not one legitimate medical study done that states that marijuana causes the loss of brain cells. Or that it isn't "good for you" and the only people fighting this is the big Pharmaceutical companies who stand to lose a great deal of money if people can start growing marijuana in their backward. I don't care if you don't believe it shouldn't be legalized it but at least have an honest discussion about it and stop spreading the misinformation about marijuana.
Also I don't think it should be legalized for the sake of cancer patients because already in some states they are doing that but would you rather your tax money go towards imprisoning people or would you rather see states raise tax revenue? That's the real discussion.
Bitty, are you kidding me? It doesn't mess up your head? Who gives a f' about scientific studies. Just look at your peers. Just ask Orangeblobman, who just said he experienced it first hand, and for that matter, ask me.
I have tried it one time. A few years ago, I fell at work and had a seizure (Wont get into details about that situation, but some people here know about it.) Right before that seizure, I felt sharp pains all over my hands and arms.
Just this year, I tried pot for the first time in my life, and it was the last time. Why? I didn't have a seizure, but I felt the same exact syptoms. In fact, those sharp pains were all over my body this time.
It f's with your nerves Bitty. I don't need a scientific study to know that.
Now, if you want to legalize pot for the reasons Bonn stated, FINE. Give it a try.
But if you're going to tell me with a straight face that pot is not good for your nerves, then I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore.
How about this experience one of my friends went out for his Bachelor Party (he was getting married in a week) after they finished partying for the night drinking legal alcohol the next morning when his friend came to visit him he didn't wake up. He died overnight due to alcohol poisoning yet this drug is readily available. Or how about this a girl I went to college with took some of her legally prescribed drugs and also died due to some kind of bad reaction she had to the drug. Or how about the numerous people dying of lung cancer due to smoking cigarettes. My friend your logic is seriously flawed and if put into practice in the real world most legal drugs would be illegal.
Do you think our government should legislate based on medical studies and studying criminal statistics or on individual experiences because that's essentially what your arguing here.
[Edited by - bitty41 on 04-19-2009 2:32 PM]
Bitty, first off, I don't know why your attacking me by saying my arguement is flawed. If you noticed, I said from the get go that I don't have an opinion. I said maybe it's better the way it is. I also said who cares?
I'm well aware of the fact that alchohal and tobacco are horrible for your body, not to mention fast food, diet coke and bla bla bla. I'm pretty sure that was drummed into my head every day since the 1st grade. And believe me, I know people who lost their lives b/c of drinking problems or b/c they smoked so many cigs, or for that matter, ate like crap also.
I think you missed the point of my flawed arguement though. I simply stated that marijuana is bad for your brain. No need to attempt to degrade that (Which you didn't) by saying that other things are bad for you too. lol
I have not read any of the studies on the effects of marijuana on brain functioning. That said, I'd never put my own anecdotal experience above scientific studies, and I'm glad the FDA relies on scientific studies, not anecdotes. I might try to understand why *I perceive* my experience to be different from what the scientific research indicates. In your case, it was simply your first time using the drug. MANY legal drugs have effects far worse than what you're describing (allanfan) upon first use that simply go away once the brain adjusts to the drug--often after a couple of weeks of use.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-19-2009 3:54 PM]
Posted by bitty41:
Also I don't think it should be legalized for the sake of cancer patients because already in some states they are doing that but would you rather your tax money go towards imprisoning people or would you rather see states raise tax revenue? That's the real discussion.
This is the biggest reason. The prisons are overflowing with bs possession arrests of mostly harmless user. I have no beef with medical marijuana for chemo and other patients, but the prison system reason is very convincing. BTW, cigarettes are much worse due to the chemical additives but they are still legal.
EDIT: I don't smoke weed so as of right now this will do nothing for me.
[Edited by - Silverfuel on 04-19-2009 7:38 PM]
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
Right, needles are the problem with heroin. It being insanely addictive and highly poisonous doesn't matter.
I knew someone was gonna go off on an absurd tangent. If you are ignorant to the differences between heroin and marijuana you wouldn't add anything constructive on this subject.
Posted by Silverfuel:
Right, needles are the problem with heroin. It being insanely addictive and highly poisonous doesn't matter.
I knew someone was gonna go off on an absurd tangent. If you are ignorant to the differences between heroin and marijuana you wouldn't add anything constructive on this subject.
lmao..good stuff.
Posted by nykshaknbake:
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
the reasoning is legalizing marijuana eases the stress on the over-crowded prisons. marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like heroin and other chemical drugs.
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by nykshaknbake:
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
the reasoning is legalizing marijuana eases the stress on the over-crowded prisons. marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like heroin and other chemical drugs.
You forgot to mention that marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like certain prescription drugs, like Oxycontin. But I guess if an upstanding citizen like a doctor prescribes it, it's decent.
Ultimately I'm for it from a rational economic standpoint and from a social standpoint- because I see two overwhelming qualities-
1) By taxing what is essentially a huge black market, and reducing the tax burden spent on prisons, the government stands to raise money for important social programs- like drug rehabilitation (which would in all likelihood make more inroads on the drug problem- read a book called "The Fix"). I don't condone more use- but the reality is I don't think it would spur more use than what we already see.
2) Legalizing the trade would probably reduce violent crime significantly. Between all the black market activity, smuggling, crime syndicates that come from marijuana trafficking, making it a regulated, open market would significantly reduce the crime that comes with the territory.
From a cost/benefit I see it as a positive. But there are major social implications toward making a change like this and it has to be done the right way.
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by nykshaknbake:
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
the reasoning is legalizing marijuana eases the stress on the over-crowded prisons. marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like heroin and other chemical drugs.
You forgot to mention that marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like certain prescription drugs, like Oxycontin. But I guess if an upstanding citizen like a doctor prescribes it, it's decent.
Picked up on the sarcasm there. From what I understand, heroin addicts faster and oxycodone doesn't have the same immediate high and doesn't last as long as heroin. Oxycotin can be addictive if abused. I think it became pretty popular in Europe 10 years ago. But then again, abusing any drug (even Tylenol) can be lethal. You might know a lot more about this than me. Aren't heroine, morphine and oxycodone more addictive and potent than marijuana?
Sorry this thread got hijacked bitty, I didn't expect it to turn into marijuana vs. other drugs.
[Edited by - Silverfuel on 04-19-2009 11:11 PM]
This thread is send closk.
I'm not really sure why orangeblobman is getting hated on. He gave his opinion.
Posted by nyk4ever:
I'm not really sure why orangeblobman is getting hated on. He gave his opinion.
because we'te stoned and ready to go on a nondiscriminant killing spree. didn't you ever see reefer madness?
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by nykshaknbake:
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
the reasoning is legalizing marijuana eases the stress on the over-crowded prisons. marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like heroin and other chemical drugs.
You forgot to mention that marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like certain prescription drugs, like Oxycontin. But I guess if an upstanding citizen like a doctor prescribes it, it's decent.
Picked up on the sarcasm there. From what I understand, heroin addicts faster and oxycodone doesn't have the same immediate high and doesn't last as long as heroin. Oxycotin can be addictive if abused. I think it became pretty popular in Europe 10 years ago. But then again, abusing any drug (even Tylenol) can be lethal. You might know a lot more about this than me. Aren't heroine, morphine and oxycodone more addictive and potent than marijuana?
Sorry this thread got hijacked bitty, I didn't expect it to turn into marijuana vs. other drugs.
[Edited by - Silverfuel on 04-19-2009 11:11 PM]
There was sarcasm, but you misinterpreted the direction or I just wasn't clear. The point I was trying to make is the one that you essentially made... we're arguing the same side
Soft drugs are not Legal in the Netherlands, in the letter of the law they are "condoned".
This gives each city the power to give licenses to places where it may be sold and restrictions on the content of the weed and hash.
So here's theres
- tax incomes
- quality control (think pesticides for instance)
- age control
- neighborhood control (where and nuisance restrictions)
- amount restrictions ( for the shop, for the user and the home grown of a user)
Don't know what the deal is with the professional weed grow crops bla bla, we occasionally get on the news yet another big bust of a weed plantation so that seems to be a highly illegal thing.
Posted by orangeblobman:
Hey, way to take it to the extreme. Like someone would really be against using it for a purpose like that.
But I should have been specific-- the fools that abuse it and think they're all peace and love, hooray. My mistake.
maytbe you should try smoking some pot - it will help relax you a bit...then maybe you wouldnt spit such ignorant venom?
smoked pot for two years, almost daily. been there and done that.
the bottom line is that it alters your mind-- changes the way you perceive the outside world, and this in turn changes how you react to the outside world.
not denying that you can get through life smoking pot, of course you can! but a pot smoker will never, ever, come even close to his or her full potential nor will the pot smoker ever look at the world the way nature intended. it's a drug, a mild psychedelic, and there is no way to cut that to make it sound any better.
Posted by orangeblobman:
smoked pot for two years, almost daily. been there and done that.
the bottom line is that it alters your mind-- changes the way you perceive the outside world, and this in turn changes how you react to the outside world.
not denying that you can get through life smoking pot, of course you can! but a pot smoker will never, ever, come even close to his or her full potential nor will the pot smoker ever look at the world the way nature intended. it's a drug, a mild psychedelic, and there is no way to cut that to make it sound any better.
since you have 'the in' with nature, please tell us all how nature intends for us to view her? reason why people attack your posts so much is b/c of the way you project yourself as knowing things & passing judgement on matters you dont necessarily agree with.
