Posted by orangeblobman:
smoked pot for two years, almost daily. been there and done that.
the bottom line is that it alters your mind-- changes the way you perceive the outside world, and this in turn changes how you react to the outside world.
not denying that you can get through life smoking pot, of course you can! but a pot smoker will never, ever, come even close to his or her full potential nor will the pot smoker ever look at the world the way nature intended. it's a drug, a mild psychedelic, and there is no way to cut that to make it sound any better.
since you have 'the in' with nature, please tell us all how nature intends for us to view her? reason why people attack your posts so much is b/c of the way you project yourself as knowing things & passing judgement on matters you dont necessarily agree with.
Because Tabacco and Liquar is legal does not make Pot a good choice to also get legalized.
Pot is not healthy and while its not the most lethal of drugs, why add it to the list?
I think the "two wrongs don't make it right" (cigarettes and booze vs Pot) might apply.
Tobacco (cigarettes) is a freakin health hazzard, and yeah booze when abused can kill.
I know I can have a Small glass of red with dinner and attually attain health benefits. Cigarettes can't, and a hit of pot won't. I thought one joint has the effect of smoking a pack of cigarettes. Smoking is never good for you. What are teh effects of smoking pot on the lungs?
Smoking pot everyday retards emotional growth in young adults and effects memory. So does lots of things, but the question is should we legalize it?
What % of all inmates in our crowded jails are in for selling pot? What is the % lets say for drug offense? If they legalize pot, do those dependant on its income then move to other drugs? More dangerous drugs? If cheaper and more plentiful harder drugs were out there does that cause more of menace?
What are the health hazzards to long term abuse? Pulmanary? Memory? Weight gain?
I agree its stupid for Chemo and glucoma patients to not have access to pot. I might also agree that decriminalization is kind of silly, but pretty decent way of going about it.
Can we do better with legalizing by regulation? Education? Quality control?
Weed today is a lot stronger than it was 20 years ago.
i believe it should be legalized - mainly for economic reasons though. if you consider that the govt, btwn law creation, paying off informers, selling it themselves and/or aiding 3rd world countries with either cashflow, airspace, waterspace, etc to bring pot into the US, it has become a $6 billion propostion in taxpayer money - an interesting fact is that the undeground revenue produced from weed sales is like $2 billion. so spending $6 fighting it when it only makes $2...go figure. all these stats can be found in the book reefer madness - different from the musical or 60's movie, this book take a hard realistic, stats based view on 3 underground industries in the US, weed, prostitution and illegal labor
here's the link to the book if anyone's interested: http://books.google.com/books?id=s4FeZmuBAqsC&dq=reefer+madness&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=CWqLkbWGxe&sig=6OI7DM9NnyEZ26dj6njBiWzEpeM&hl=en&ei=2YPsSYv1HdmJtgfz3OGUBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#PPP1,M1
i found it interesting to say the least.
Posted by Nalod:
Because Tabacco and Liquar is legal does not make Pot a good choice to also get legalized.
Pot is not healthy and while its not the most lethal of drugs, why add it to the list?
I think the "two wrongs don't make it right" (cigarettes and booze vs Pot) might apply.
Tobacco (cigarettes) is a freakin health hazzard, and yeah booze when abused can kill.
I know I can have a Small glass of red with dinner and attually attain health benefits. Cigarettes can't, and a hit of pot won't. I thought one joint has the effect of smoking a pack of cigarettes. Smoking is never good for you. What are teh effects of smoking pot on the lungs?
Smoking pot everyday retards emotional growth in young adults and effects memory. So does lots of things, but the question is should we legalize it?
What % of all inmates in our crowded jails are in for selling pot? What is the % lets say for drug offense? If they legalize pot, do those dependant on its income then move to other drugs? More dangerous drugs? If cheaper and more plentiful harder drugs were out there does that cause more of menace?
What are the health hazzards to long term abuse? Pulmanary? Memory? Weight gain?
I agree its stupid for Chemo and glucoma patients to not have access to pot. I might also agree that decriminalization is kind of silly, but pretty decent way of going about it.
Can we do better with legalizing by regulation? Education? Quality control?
Weed today is a lot stronger than it was 20 years ago.
Nalod,
My whole purpose for creating this poll was to generate an informative discussion about the legalization of Pot. Regardless of what side you fall on I think everyone should do their best to educate themselves on the realities of Marijuana. Unless you can provide Scientific documentation please refrain from putting your personal spin on what Marijuana may or maynot do. Become informed! That's all I ask because from reading your preliminary statement and few others on this thread it seems like misinformation about Marijuana is still very rampant among the population.
Posted by Nalod:
Because Tabacco and Liquar is legal does not make Pot a good choice to also get legalized.
Pot is not healthy and while its not the most lethal of drugs, why add it to the list?
I think the "two wrongs don't make it right" (cigarettes and booze vs Pot) might apply.
Tobacco (cigarettes) is a freakin health hazzard, and yeah booze when abused can kill.
I know I can have a Small glass of red with dinner and attually attain health benefits. Cigarettes can't, and a hit of pot won't. I thought one joint has the effect of smoking a pack of cigarettes. Smoking is never good for you. What are teh effects of smoking pot on the lungs?
Smoking pot everyday retards emotional growth in young adults and effects memory. So does lots of things, but the question is should we legalize it?
What % of all inmates in our crowded jails are in for selling pot? What is the % lets say for drug offense? If they legalize pot, do those dependant on its income then move to other drugs? More dangerous drugs? If cheaper and more plentiful harder drugs were out there does that cause more of menace?
What are the health hazzards to long term abuse? Pulmanary? Memory? Weight gain?
I agree its stupid for Chemo and glucoma patients to not have access to pot. I might also agree that decriminalization is kind of silly, but pretty decent way of going about it.
Can we do better with legalizing by regulation? Education? Quality control?
Weed today is a lot stronger than it was 20 years ago.
Nalod,
My whole purpose for creating this poll was to generate an informative discussion about the legalization of Pot. Regardless of what side you fall on I think everyone should do their best to educate themselves on the realities of Marijuana. Unless you can provide Scientific documentation please refrain from putting your personal spin on what Marijuana may or maynot do. Become informed! That's all I ask because from reading your preliminary statement and few others on this thread it seems like misinformation about Marijuana is still very rampant among the population.
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by nykshaknbake:
WHy stop at pot? If we provide clean needles there's no reason we can't do heroin and other stuff. If we tax that we can really haul it in.
the reasoning is legalizing marijuana eases the stress on the over-crowded prisons. marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like heroin and other chemical drugs.
You forgot to mention that marijuana is not a hardcore narcotic like certain prescription drugs, like Oxycontin. But I guess if an upstanding citizen like a doctor prescribes it, it's decent.
Picked up on the sarcasm there. From what I understand, heroin addicts faster and oxycodone doesn't have the same immediate high and doesn't last as long as heroin. Oxycotin can be addictive if abused. I think it became pretty popular in Europe 10 years ago. But then again, abusing any drug (even Tylenol) can be lethal. You might know a lot more about this than me. Aren't heroine, morphine and oxycodone more addictive and potent than marijuana?
Sorry this thread got hijacked bitty, I didn't expect it to turn into marijuana vs. other drugs.
[Edited by - Silverfuel on 04-19-2009 11:11 PM]
No Silerfuel I welcome your line of discussion because I think it's something that needs to be discussed, when debating the merits of legalizing Marijuana. The whole purpose of making a particular drug illegal is because it's harmful to individuals and it negatively affects society. If the FDA is going to make significantly more harmful drugs readily available to the public then what exactly is the Government's justification for making Marijuana illegal?
has anyone paid attention to the whole drug war debacle in mexico? that is a direct result of our drug policy. rather than just grow our own weed, taxing it, and selling it, we import it for a marked up price from mexico. we are propping up the drug regimes over there. on top of that, the US imprisons 25% of the world's prison population, 1% of our total adult population is in jail. 1/2 of our jail population is in on nonviolent drug charges. our govt spends a lot of money every year policing, locking people up, enforcing the law, etc. marijuana would be california's biggest cash crop, and generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue, create jobs, and save the government money. our drug policy hurts us domestically, it hurts us beyond our borders, we should change the policy b/c the policy is wrong.
the wire, former HBO show, was a fantastic portrayal of the war on drugs and how it negatively impacts a whole bunch of things.
Posted by jimimou:
Posted by orangeblobman:
smoked pot for two years, almost daily. been there and done that.
the bottom line is that it alters your mind-- changes the way you perceive the outside world, and this in turn changes how you react to the outside world.
not denying that you can get through life smoking pot, of course you can! but a pot smoker will never, ever, come even close to his or her full potential nor will the pot smoker ever look at the world the way nature intended. it's a drug, a mild psychedelic, and there is no way to cut that to make it sound any better.
since you have 'the in' with nature, please tell us all how nature intends for us to view her? reason why people attack your posts so much is b/c of the way you project yourself as knowing things & passing judgement on matters you dont necessarily agree with.
Ok, Jimbo. I agree. I guess I do come off as all-knowing sometimes. But this is not my intent. Did you ever hear of the phrase.. "your direction is right, but your approach is wrong"? That would describe me, I guess.
The bottom line is, at least in this topic, that marijuana messes up your mind and goes against your natural mindset. Whether or not you think this is good is a subjective argument, but I doubt anyone can deny that it does, indeedy!, alter your perceptions.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 04-20-2009 12:56 PM][Edited by - orangeblobman on 04-20-2009 1:00 PM]
Posted by orangeblobman:
Posted by jimimou:
Posted by orangeblobman:
smoked pot for two years, almost daily. been there and done that.
the bottom line is that it alters your mind-- changes the way you perceive the outside world, and this in turn changes how you react to the outside world.
not denying that you can get through life smoking pot, of course you can! but a pot smoker will never, ever, come even close to his or her full potential nor will the pot smoker ever look at the world the way nature intended. it's a drug, a mild psychedelic, and there is no way to cut that to make it sound any better.
since you have 'the in' with nature, please tell us all how nature intends for us to view her? reason why people attack your posts so much is b/c of the way you project yourself as knowing things & passing judgement on matters you dont necessarily agree with.
Ok, Jimbo. I agree. I guess I do come off as all-knowing sometimes. But this is not my intent. Did you ever hear of the phrase.. "your direction is right, but your approach is wrong"? That would describe me, I guess.
The bottom line is, at least in this topic, that marijuana messes up your mind and goes against your natural mindset. Whether or not you think this is good is a subjective argument, but I doubt anyone can deny that it does, indeedy!, alter your perceptions.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 04-20-2009 12:56 PM]
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 04-20-2009 1:00 PM]
agreed - sometimes when i'm high, i can actually stand reading your posts
lmao, thanks, man, thanks...
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Nalod:
Because Tabacco and Liquar is legal does not make Pot a good choice to also get legalized.
Pot is not healthy and while its not the most lethal of drugs, why add it to the list?
I think the "two wrongs don't make it right" (cigarettes and booze vs Pot) might apply.
Tobacco (cigarettes) is a freakin health hazzard, and yeah booze when abused can kill.
I know I can have a Small glass of red with dinner and attually attain health benefits. Cigarettes can't, and a hit of pot won't. I thought one joint has the effect of smoking a pack of cigarettes. Smoking is never good for you. What are teh effects of smoking pot on the lungs?
Smoking pot everyday retards emotional growth in young adults and effects memory. So does lots of things, but the question is should we legalize it?
What % of all inmates in our crowded jails are in for selling pot? What is the % lets say for drug offense? If they legalize pot, do those dependant on its income then move to other drugs? More dangerous drugs? If cheaper and more plentiful harder drugs were out there does that cause more of menace?
What are the health hazzards to long term abuse? Pulmanary? Memory? Weight gain?
I agree its stupid for Chemo and glucoma patients to not have access to pot. I might also agree that decriminalization is kind of silly, but pretty decent way of going about it.
Can we do better with legalizing by regulation? Education? Quality control?
Weed today is a lot stronger than it was 20 years ago.
Nalod,
My whole purpose for creating this poll was to generate an informative discussion about the legalization of Pot. Regardless of what side you fall on I think everyone should do their best to educate themselves on the realities of Marijuana. Unless you can provide Scientific documentation please refrain from putting your personal spin on what Marijuana may or maynot do. Become informed! That's all I ask because from reading your preliminary statement and few others on this thread it seems like misinformation about Marijuana is still very rampant among the population.
I thought the point of most of your polls is to argue with anyone who does not agree with you?
I should do research on this subject or just add my .2cents worth with what I Do know, or bring a different view point.
In any event, If I ask a question it is perhaps to engage further the subject.
Like if you legalize weed what would the cartels do to replace their lost cash flow?
Do you then go after stronger other drugs? If so, what is the effect on prison populations with Pot?
These are questions that should be asked, cuz your basically trading one set of circumstances to another.
Ok, how many pot smokers never smoked cigarettes? What is their health like??
If you legalize it, can you still control a black market? By that, will you have an illegal trade that goes after children with more exotic and powerful blends with "additives" to enhance the buzz? What if black market weed is cheaper than regulated weed? Since its "legalized" would the DEA still be looking for it? Is it then a "Tax revenue" problem? What countries have legalized it and how does it work? Do these countries have the ability to grow their own? Neighboring countries that can grow it in plenty? What about duty free weed? Can I buy it in Jamaica and just bring it back? What if I bring it back and sell it to my friends? What about driving? Will there be a law against it? Sure few people are DUI for weed but do they get tested if they "fell asleep"? Or had a "Seizure"? Or got "distracted"?
What are the limits for professional standards. Can a dentist have a glass of wine at lunch and not be legally liable but what about a hit of weed? What about smoking a little weed on the job? School teachers? What are the limits? How does one measure what has been digested and in what environment? Is falling asleep at the wheel and killing a family of 4 while having some measurable amount of THC in your blood levels from the night before a homicide? What about reduced reation time in a collison? There have been few DUI with Pot but you legalize its going to go up. With Ipods, cell phones, NAV units, etc, your not exactly making multi tasking easier with a "little Weed".
On the surface there are some great reasons why it should be legalized but these are the questions that are going to arise before any reform would come about. I am realing off just a few things that I would want answered before I would vote on it.
Im going to need a whole lot more information until vote yes. Until then put me down as "NO".
nalod, if it impacts your deciison at all, the economist and time magazine both have recently come out with legalization articles and why it makes sense socially and economically.
Posted by BigSm00th:
nalod, if it impacts your deciison at all, the economist and time magazine both have recently come out with legalization articles and why it makes sense socially and economically.
I guess it would! I'll have to read up on it.
Silver, I was being facetious. Anyway, if you legalize marijuana, the others are not far behind. You will get arguments since people are going to do it anyway, you may as well provide them a safe avenue (HIV, hepatitis, etc) and increase tax revenue at the same time. If someone wants to get get high, it's their choice. making it illegal just increases demand by cuttin gsupply once availabilty goes up, price goes down and it won't be smuggled as aggresively, etc. The reason why some laws are in place is that they prevent self destructive behavior. Pot doesn't help society in any way and it certainly can hurt. It's not completly safe as orangebloom can attest to, though there are less deleerious long term effects than say smoking cigarettes. If you legalize it, I guarntee that you are going to have more(even than now) and younger kids smoking it and that will bring the future of thwe community down.
[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 04-20-2009 3:21 PM]
shakenbake, when i have kids i would much rather prefer them to smoke weed than to drink or smoke cigarettes. its not even a question.
here's an article from today
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamp...Alcohol-related traffic accidents claim approximately 14,000 lives each year, down significantly from 20 or 30 years ago (attributed to improved education and enforcement). Figures for THC-related traffic fatalities are elusive, especially since alcohol is almost always present in the blood as well, and since the numbers of "marijuana-only" traffic fatalities are so small. But evidence from studies, including laboratory simulations, feeds the stereotype that those under the influence of canniboids tend to (1) be more aware of their impaired psychomotor skills, and (2) drive well below the speed limit. Those under the influence of alcohol are much more likely to be clueless or defiant about their condition, and to speed up and drive recklessly.
Hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur annually. There has never been a single recorded marijuana OD fatality.
"if you legalize marijuana, the others are not far behind." cigarettes and booze already are legal. and some would say that if you legalize it, less people will try it b/c it will have less of an exotic, against the law feel. i highly doubt everybody would just start smoking weed because it was legal.
[Edited by - bigsm00th on 04-20-2009 1:13 PM]
That's fantastic Bigsmooth. So because alcohol and tabacco are bad lets encourage marijuana? Why stoop to the lower common denominator? I think you should encourage your kids in the future not to smoke or get blitzed. How about that?
Posted by BigSm00th:
shakenbake, when i have kids i would much rather prefer them to smoke weed than to drink or smoke cigarettes. its not even a question.
here's an article from today
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamp...
Alcohol-related traffic accidents claim approximately 14,000 lives each year, down significantly from 20 or 30 years ago (attributed to improved education and enforcement). Figures for THC-related traffic fatalities are elusive, especially since alcohol is almost always present in the blood as well, and since the numbers of "marijuana-only" traffic fatalities are so small. But evidence from studies, including laboratory simulations, feeds the stereotype that those under the influence of canniboids tend to (1) be more aware of their impaired psychomotor skills, and (2) drive well below the speed limit. Those under the influence of alcohol are much more likely to be clueless or defiant about their condition, and to speed up and drive recklessly.
Hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur annually. There has never been a single recorded marijuana OD fatality.
"if you legalize marijuana, the others are not far behind." cigarettes and booze already are legal. and some would say that if you legalize it, less people will try it b/c it will have less of an exotic, against the law feel. i highly doubt everybody would just start smoking weed because it was legal.
[Edited by - bigsm00th on 04-20-2009 1:13 PM]
Posted by nykshaknbake:
That's fantastic Bigsmooth. So because alcohol and tabacco are bad lets encourage marijuana? Why stoop to the lower common denominator? I think you should encourage your kids in the future not to smoke or get blitzed. How about that?
Posted by BigSm00th:
shakenbake, when i have kids i would much rather prefer them to smoke weed than to drink or smoke cigarettes. its not even a question.
here's an article from today
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamp...
Alcohol-related traffic accidents claim approximately 14,000 lives each year, down significantly from 20 or 30 years ago (attributed to improved education and enforcement). Figures for THC-related traffic fatalities are elusive, especially since alcohol is almost always present in the blood as well, and since the numbers of "marijuana-only" traffic fatalities are so small. But evidence from studies, including laboratory simulations, feeds the stereotype that those under the influence of canniboids tend to (1) be more aware of their impaired psychomotor skills, and (2) drive well below the speed limit. Those under the influence of alcohol are much more likely to be clueless or defiant about their condition, and to speed up and drive recklessly.
Hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur annually. There has never been a single recorded marijuana OD fatality.
"if you legalize marijuana, the others are not far behind." cigarettes and booze already are legal. and some would say that if you legalize it, less people will try it b/c it will have less of an exotic, against the law feel. i highly doubt everybody would just start smoking weed because it was legal.
[Edited by - bigsm00th on 04-20-2009 1:13 PM]
i didn't say i'd encourage, i said i'd prefer it as the lesser of evils. whether they do it or not won't depend on the legality of it.
lowest common denominator? how about less people in jail on nonviolent drug charges? it's a $14 billion market that, rather than grow it, regulate it, and tax it, we import it from mexico (and prop up these billionaire druglord gangsters and their militias) and lock up our own citizens when using it. prohibition of marijuana is bad for america's economy, bad for it's people, and good for mexican gangsters. why do those facts get trumped by "it will ruin our moral fabric".
Posted by orangeblobman:
Hey, way to take it to the extreme. Like someone would really be against using it for a purpose like that.
Your arch right-wing friends, who you seem to gather all your talking points from, have continually attacked the notion of providing medical marijuana to terminally ill patients. They fought tooth and nail against propositions aimed at cancer patients and the like.
People can use all the scientific and anecdotal evidence in the world but the moral majority of this world would rather put their head in the sand and hold on to these ridiculous notions in the name of tradition and order.
This is not about providing Marijuana in the lunch line for our children, or carrying on about its beneficial wonders...this is about common sense and, yes, morality. The War on Drugs has been a monumental failure...We are locking people up for what amounts to a drug that is more harmless than "legal" drugs. Not only could we wipe that debt off the books, but we could pump untold billions into our economy.
See, the elephant in the room here is corruption. Politicians and our Govt dont want it legalized because they are making so much under-the-table, black market money from weed. Thats not some wacky conspiracy theory either. This has nothing to do with the "health and welfare" of Americans. If that were the case, explain Tobacco?
The benefits to legalization are so many and substantial that is almost pitiful. As posters have already pointed out --- from negating drug cartels, to easing the strain of our penal system, more money...its just ridiculous. We need to get some clear thinking politicians to take this subject seriously and responsibly.
And for the anti-weed heads in this thread, let me ask you this. Has the prohibition of Marijuana stopped people from smoking it? Has it curbed its use in any substantial way, or has it made our streets even that more dangerous? C'mon now, lets stop communicating in this absurd language and lets get real.
I haven't been called an idiot, small minded, uneducated, or a conservative right winger in a while, so I guess I will weigh in on the topic. On a personal level, I dont' use pot. I've tried it once and hated it. I also don't drink often because it messes with my game. I took a toke of my grandfather's pipe 25 years ago and will never smoke because of it. I have a few friends that smoke a lot and each one of them struggling in life. They don't function well, no matter how they say they are and in general I find them annoying. That being said, I think that marijuana should be legal. I do follow the logic that it is no worse than alcohol and tobacco and don't understand why one is illegal and the other is not. Make them all illegal or legalize all three if you ask me.
But I also agree with Nalod. The legalization of marijuana is a complicated issue and there is a lot to it. Are there unintended consequences? Probably.
Posted by Bippity10:
I haven't been called an idiot, small minded, uneducated, or a conservative right winger in a while, so I guess I will weigh in on the topic. On a personal level, I dont' use pot. I've tried it once and hated it. I also don't drink often because it messes with my game. I took a toke of my grandfather's pipe 25 years ago and will never smoke because of it. I have a few friends that smoke a lot and each one of them struggling in life. They don't function well, no matter how they say they are and in general I find them annoying. That being said, I think that marijuana should be legal. I do follow the logic that it is no worse than alcohol and tobacco and don't understand why one is illegal and the other is not. Make them all illegal or legalize all three if you ask me.
But I also agree with Nalod. The legalization of marijuana is a complicated issue and there is a lot to it. Are there unintended consequences? Probably.
And for the anti-weed heads in this thread, let me ask you this. Has the prohibition of Marijuana stopped people from smoking it? Has it curbed its use in any substantial way, or has it made our streets even that more dangerous?
Quoted again for emphasis...
Solid post, bip.
[Edited by - sebstar on 04-21-2009 5:14 PM]
