Do me a favor and dont use this mans death as fodder for your argument. You lack the ability to understand the events that resulted in this mans death so please dont even try. This guy was never on your side. Hes was a cop. He was on our side. So please dont trivialize hise death to support whatever pointless point you are trying to make.
Yeah, I see where being on "your side" got him.
And its always "us" being shot or beat up for some reason...
You guys are fascists wanting people to just accept abuse, hostility, mistreatment, and brutality. It doesnt have to be every single cop committing these kind of acts for it to be a problem.
orangeblobman@ 6/4/2009 6:23 AM
sebstar you can babble all you want about it but it comes down to this:
if a 'person' behaves like an animal, they deserve to be treated like an animal.
and if you want to get into the 'colour' of crime (because you mention white cops mistreating 'innocent' minorities)...then i hope you are aware that an overwhelming majority of hate crime in tis country is perpetrated by blacks against whites, including most violent crimes such as murder, assault and rape.
you have the gall to rant about these perceived injustices based on a couple of isolated youtube clips. you rile up an entire board with your blatantly racist, anti-white comments. you are the biggest racist i have ever come across, internet or real-life, and i can't even imagine how you can face yourself in the mirror every morning-- i know i couldn't if i had such hate in my heart.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-04-2009 06:31 AM]
Marv@ 6/4/2009 7:14 AM
Posted by orangeblobman:
sebstar you can babble all you want about it but it comes down to this:
if a 'person' behaves like an animal, they deserve to be treated like an animal.
and if you want to get into the 'colour' of crime (because you mention white cops mistreating 'innocent' minorities)...then i hope you are aware that an overwhelming majority of hate crime in tis country is perpetrated by blacks against whites, including most violent crimes such as murder, assault and rape. you have the gall to rant about these perceived injustices based on a couple of isolated youtube clips. you rile up an entire board with your blatantly racist, anti-white comments. you are the biggest racist i have ever come across, internet or real-life, and i can't even imagine how you can face yourself in the mirror every morning-- i know i couldn't if i had such hate in my heart.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-04-2009 06:31 AM]
orangeblobman, not true.
go to almost any site listing statistics, and you’ll see that it's just the opposite.
a few examples:
“Among racially-motivated hate crimes, Blacks continued to be targeted most often (33%), although the number of such incidents declined from 238 in 2006 to 154 in 2007.” http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien...
“Out of 4,956 racial incidents, 908 were anti-white; 3,424 were anti-African American; and the rest were bias crimes against other races.” http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules...
“Hate crime is a crime committed against a person simply because he or she represents a certain group or lifestyle different from the offender. Most commonly hate crimes focus on race and ethnicity, but also can include religion, sexual orientation, gender, and age. In 2002 almost 49 percent of hate crimes were based on race and another 15 percent based on ethnicity or national origin. Some 67 percent of victims attacked based on race were black Americans.”
marv, those crimes are only for the ones categorized as 'hate'. but the truth is that most black on white crime is out of hate, though it is not listed as such.
this is off topic, i know, and i somewhat regret taking it to this point. but sebstar's continued assault on everything white is alarming.
i thought it was 2009, not..well, whatever age he's stuck in.
Allanfan20@ 6/4/2009 9:27 AM
Orange, there are things on this subject I disagree with sebstar with, such as the sports media, as I feel it's not nearly as racist as he thinks it is (Or uninstitutionalized racism as killa would say) and I've seen things that have proven him wrong on a number of occasions. However, this is something completely different orange...
In my mind, when an ambulence is rushing to a hospital, there is absolutely positively no excuse to pull it over on the way. None whatsoever. If you feel that ambulence is suspicious, you follow it to the hospital, and if it's clear that it's not going to a hospital then you pull it over, but I'm sure that wasn't the case here. His mother was sick. To me, there's just no rationale explanation.
And if you can prove that there's more black on white hate crimes, go ahead. I'm doubtful you will find that evidence though. It's like what my dad taught me when I was a kid. It's more dangerous for a black person to walk through a white neightborhood than it is for a white person to walk through a black neighborhood.
If you don't have any evidence to support your arguement, you might as well not make an arguement.
[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 04-06-2009 09:48 AM]
orangeblobman@ 6/4/2009 9:36 AM
"And if you can prove that there's more black on white hate crimes, go ahead. I'm doubtful you will find that evidence though."
a simple google search of 'black on white crime statistics' reveals many hits. i've chosen the first result and, upon a cursory examination, the given site seems informative and well sourced from official government statistics. i encourage you to examine it yourself and tell me what you think: http://www.racismeantiblanc.bizland.com/005/06-02.htm
"It's more dangerous for a black person to walk through a white neighborhood than it is for a white person to walk through a black neighborhood."
if you really believe that, i don't know what to say to you. maybe you could organize a quick study of this using yourself as the subject.
and, finally:
"Orange, there are things on this subject I disagree with sebstar with, such as the media, as I feel it's not nearly as racist as he thinks it is..."
it is nothing like sebstar thinks he is. my intent is not to trigger a racial discussion, but to defend what is right from sebstar's biased attacks.
mull this over before you want to go out and call white cops evil.
in closing, i don't believe that the racial problem is as big as it seems. there are bad, evil people in every ethnicity.
i strongly believe that the majority are in favor of peace and harmony-- it's the few bad apples on all sides that spoil the lunch.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-04-2009 09:38 AM]
TMS@ 6/4/2009 10:45 AM
Posted by izybx:
Your post that I responded to was included in my reply. I highlighted the portion that I thought was interesting. If you feel that your words somehow misrepresent what you were trying to say then edit it.
Posted by izybx:
Dont even get into it. This is just an anticop thread where handpicked video of a few jerks are used to educate us that a significant percentage of the millions of law enforcement in the country are abusive and racist. Im think that sebstar and TMS should become police officers in order to help show cops how insensitive and cruel they are.
izybx, you made an inaccurate generalization of my thread based on your own narrow scope of view on this topic & haven't even bothered to read through the entire thread before making it... how can u blame me for telling u to get a minority's opinion on this matter when several minority members of this forum have weighed in just as i have & share the same point of view, the SAME one that you expressed yourself earlier on this thread that there are some real jackass cops out there, & yet you chose to criticize me for posting this thread to begin with??? so what's your point in calling me out on this topic? just what is it that i stated in this thread that offends you so much? don't lump my comments in w/sebstar's, he's a grown man with his own views on things, some of which i don't always necessarily share, but on this topic i think we're all agreed that the cops on these clips deserve to have their badges stripped from them... they have no business holding any position of authority over anyone in this society... gimme a damn break w/anyone defending any of these idiots' actions or bashing me or anyone else for criticizing them for it.
[Edited by - TMS on 06-04-2009 07:46 AM]
TMS@ 6/4/2009 10:49 AM
Posted by orangeblobman: mull this over before you want to go out and call white cops evil.
who the hell said all white cops are evil??? seriously guys, read over the thread & stop inserting your own narrow scope generalizations on other people's comments & save us all a lotta wasted time trying to explain our comments to you.
Bippity10@ 6/4/2009 11:01 AM
TMS: The moment you criticize one aspect of anything that means you hate the entire thing. That's where we are in America today.
orangeblobman@ 6/4/2009 11:03 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by orangeblobman: mull this over before you want to go out and call white cops evil.
who the hell said all white cops are evil??? seriously guys, read over the thread & stop inserting your own narrow scope generalizations on other people's comments & save us all a lotta wasted time trying to explain our comments to you.
not specifically or directly, but it's what i gathered from what has been said.
maybe it's best if this one dies down, it has gotten a bit out of hand and out of context. so, with that in mind, i would like to take the liberty of closing out the argument and having the last word--
The cop in the original video was wrong for reacting the way he did. The girl was wrong for acting the way she did. It is unreasonable to expect constant restraint and civility from our police forces if the civilians themselves are not held to the same standard.
edit: added bold to last sentence.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-04-2009 11:11 AM]
sebstar@ 6/4/2009 11:22 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by orangeblobman: mull this over before you want to go out and call white cops evil.
who the hell said all white cops are evil??? seriously guys, read over the thread & stop inserting your own narrow scope generalizations on other people's comments & save us all a lotta wasted time trying to explain our comments to you.
You know what, I'm over this thread...why are we even talking to people who want to defend police officers who brutally assault females adolescents. We're just asking for it, cause all they are going to do is continue to promote their twisted logic.
Was only a matter of time until this veered over into the David Duke: "you're a racist for pointing out racism" slant. Typical tactic from an intellectual lightweight that is culturally biased. Minorities are overwhelmingly subject to abuse by law enforcement --- fact, but its our fault, I know. BTW, poverty not race is the major determining factor for all these context-free statistics you want to throw out, and thats across the board.
In any event, my man Marv is coming out my way so he will be able to give ya'll a first hand account of Sebby's "racism."
and I've seen things that have proven him wrong on a number of occasions.
I dunno about all that Allanfan.
Bippity10@ 6/4/2009 11:23 AM
To Izy's point, I think many people do take videos like this and just assume that all cops are like that. In my old neighborhood, the police are hated beyond belief. The feeling stems from the fact that the cops have to deal with some really scary individuals. They are on edge. They have a heavy hand with the criminals because they have to. People in the neighborhood all seem to understand the cops behavior and do not protest. What they have a problem with is that overtime many of the cops have begun to treat everyone like a criminal when the large majority are clearly not. From a cops point of view I can see why. You want to go home to your family and you want to make sure before you give the benefit of the doubt. There are enough criminals to make you distrust everyone in the neighborhood But understand in return people in the neighborhood think the same way. They have seen enough innocent people roughed up and treated like thugs that they have begun to distrust every cop. It's not as easy as saying hey these cops are under stress so it's okay for them to rough me up until they know who I am. No it's not okay. Nobody would accept it. So in the end there is mutual distrust, even though the majority on both sides are really good people.
In my situation I was nothing but respectful to the two officers that came to get me. I figured they would ask me a couple questions(although I didn't know what it was about) and then leave me alone. I did not know they were even coming to ask me about my own actions, I thought they were looking for someone else. I did everything they said. Even when the guy had me kneeling, patting me down while standing on my achilles heel and jabbing a baton into my lower back I did not fight. I assumed they had a reason and that I must have done something suspicious. When I found out that it was because I skidded at a stop sign and so that must mean I was robbing the neighborhood that was when I balked. After searching my car they found out I was fine and apologized immensely. I accepted the apology and went on with my life. But since that day I am terrified of the police. Not because all police are bad. But enough are bad or on edge when they pull me over that you never know what could happen.
It's okay to discuss these things without assuming this thread was anti-police. If you can find an incredible video of a cop doing something incredibly nice you would have a thread as well.
orangeblobman@ 6/4/2009 11:33 AM
you can spew yours all you want sebdawg, but you ignore:
It is unreasonable to expect constant restraint and civility from our police forces if the civilians themselves are not held to the same standard.
perhaps the police will 'behave better' when the subjects they are forced to put-in-order behave better themselves.
TMS@ 6/4/2009 11:45 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
To Izy's point, I think many people do take videos like this and just assume that all cops are like that.
exactly, i addressed that same point earlier in this thread too... the idiot cops will make those of us who have had negative encounters w/them in the past have an overall suspicion of all cops in general, & that is a damn shame... these guys are out there to protect & serve the citizens, & because some of them choose to abuse that power it sets a bad precedent & casts a very negative shadow over all of them in some of our minds, which in an ideal world wouldn't be the case but that's just human nature... the only way to combat this is for the good cops to speak out & act out against the ones that are acting like jackasses like the ones in this thread, & like i mentioned earlier in the thread, it's almost like those good cops will often be ostracized amongst their peers for doing so, which is another sad commentary on how things are done in the judicial system.
TMS@ 6/4/2009 11:51 AM
Posted by orangeblobman:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by orangeblobman: mull this over before you want to go out and call white cops evil.
who the hell said all white cops are evil??? seriously guys, read over the thread & stop inserting your own narrow scope generalizations on other people's comments & save us all a lotta wasted time trying to explain our comments to you.
not specifically or directly, but it's what i gathered from what has been said.
maybe it's best if this one dies down, it has gotten a bit out of hand and out of context. so, with that in mind, i would like to take the liberty of closing out the argument and having the last word--
The cop in the original video was wrong for reacting the way he did. The girl was wrong for acting the way she did. It is unreasonable to expect constant restraint and civility from our police forces if the civilians themselves are not held to the same standard.
edit: added bold to last sentence.
[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-04-2009 11:11 AM]
we've already been through this... a reasonable reaction to someone flicking their shoe at you is a noogie at worst... u don't slam their face against a wall, drag them down by their hair & take a few cheap shots while you have your knee in their back & your partner is holding you down at the same time... for u to draw any kinds of cause & effect scenarios out of this is completely ridiculous.
izybx@ 6/4/2009 12:02 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by izybx:
Your post that I responded to was included in my reply. I highlighted the portion that I thought was interesting. If you feel that your words somehow misrepresent what you were trying to say then edit it.
Posted by izybx:
Dont even get into it. This is just an anticop thread where handpicked video of a few jerks are used to educate us that a significant percentage of the millions of law enforcement in the country are abusive and racist. Im think that sebstar and TMS should become police officers in order to help show cops how insensitive and cruel they are.
izybx, you made an inaccurate generalization of my thread based on your own narrow scope of view on this topic & haven't even bothered to read through the entire thread before making it... how can u blame me for telling u to get a minority's opinion on this matter when several minority members of this forum have weighed in just as i have & share the same point of view, the SAME one that you expressed yourself earlier on this thread that there are some real jackass cops out there, & yet you chose to criticize me for posting this thread to begin with??? so what's your point in calling me out on this topic? just what is it that i stated in this thread that offends you so much? don't lump my comments in w/sebstar's, he's a grown man with his own views on things, some of which i don't always necessarily share, but on this topic i think we're all agreed that the cops on these clips deserve to have their badges stripped from them... they have no business holding any position of authority over anyone in this society... gimme a damn break w/anyone defending any of these idiots' actions or bashing me or anyone else for criticizing them for it.
[Edited by - TMS on 06-04-2009 07:46 AM]
I didnt criticize you or insult you. When you posted the video you probably knew what type of thread it was going to get into. When you post some videos of cops doing something positive, instead of choosing a video that doesnt represent police as a whole, I will stand corrected.
Do me a favor and dont use this mans death as fodder for your argument. You lack the ability to understand the events that resulted in this mans death so please dont even try. This guy was never on your side. Hes was a cop. He was on our side. So please dont trivialize hise death to support whatever pointless point you are trying to make.
Yeah, I see where being on "your side" got him.
And its always "us" being shot or beat up for some reason...
You guys are fascists wanting people to just accept abuse, hostility, mistreatment, and brutality. It doesnt have to be every single cop committing these kind of acts for it to be a problem.
Yes Sebstar, being on our side cost him his life. He was a cop, it was his dream to become a cop, and he comes from a cop family. He died chasing a criminal. Our side buddy. Someone like you lacks the ability to understand a concept like that.
TMS@ 6/4/2009 12:07 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by izybx:
Your post that I responded to was included in my reply. I highlighted the portion that I thought was interesting. If you feel that your words somehow misrepresent what you were trying to say then edit it.
Posted by izybx:
Dont even get into it. This is just an anticop thread where handpicked video of a few jerks are used to educate us that a significant percentage of the millions of law enforcement in the country are abusive and racist. Im think that sebstar and TMS should become police officers in order to help show cops how insensitive and cruel they are.
izybx, you made an inaccurate generalization of my thread based on your own narrow scope of view on this topic & haven't even bothered to read through the entire thread before making it... how can u blame me for telling u to get a minority's opinion on this matter when several minority members of this forum have weighed in just as i have & share the same point of view, the SAME one that you expressed yourself earlier on this thread that there are some real jackass cops out there, & yet you chose to criticize me for posting this thread to begin with??? so what's your point in calling me out on this topic? just what is it that i stated in this thread that offends you so much? don't lump my comments in w/sebstar's, he's a grown man with his own views on things, some of which i don't always necessarily share, but on this topic i think we're all agreed that the cops on these clips deserve to have their badges stripped from them... they have no business holding any position of authority over anyone in this society... gimme a damn break w/anyone defending any of these idiots' actions or bashing me or anyone else for criticizing them for it.
[Edited by - TMS on 06-04-2009 07:46 AM]
I didnt criticize you or insult you. When you posted the video you probably knew what type of thread it was going to get into. When you post some videos of cops doing something positive, instead of choosing a video that doesnt represent police as a whole, I will stand corrected.
u didn't insult me, but u did criticize this thread & cast your own aspersions on what my intent was behind posting it... u just did it again w/your last post... but here, just to make you happy:
a simple apology will suffice.
Allanfan20@ 6/4/2009 1:10 PM
I dunno about all that Allanfan.
I definitely know about it. Ever since you pointed out that hockey players never get called thugs, I noticed that people have been doing it. Heck, Paul O'Neal said it during the Yankees game last night.
Is there racism in the sports media. YES! I was just trying to point out that it wasn't as bad as you made it out to be because I do pay attention to stuff like that because I hate racism just as much as anyone.
I do think there are some bad apples that will say crap that maybe will make you come up with assumptions, understandably. Overall, however, I think the fair writers/journalists/anchors, ect... have been pretty good with it.
