Off Topic · White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack Peggy Mcintosh (page 4)

TMS wrote:

playa2 wrote:I noticed TMS when you shared this , some tried to make the thread into a comic strip and dumb down the content. Why are we afraid to talk, Marv and yourself outside of seb and I sound like you understand what I'm talking about, the rest get defensive .

it's an uncomfortable topic sometimes to confront but it needs to be addressed... it's hard for people to comprehend some of the issues that others face on a daily basis because they aren't really faced with them as a part of daily life... like the saying goes, "don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes". (sorry kam, but the saying fits)

So... because i'm a minority a should make threads like this? I should bitch and moan about inequity?
Sorry man i feel strongly about making our own luck in life. If you act the victim you'll be the victim.
I don't subscribe to that woe is me shit. Other countries have outright racism. I'd probably be thrown in jail in Turkey.

aint nobody bitchin and moanin on this thread. we're just talking about real issues that exist. i dont remember anyone asking for pity on this thread. the topic was raised and it's a legit topic that effects millions of people in this country. poppin jokes about the issue or dissing those who choose to talk about it doesnt make the issue go away. if u dont want to talk about it that's up to u.

i appreciate living in this country same as anyone but i'm not gonna deny the existence of certain inequities just cuz some of y'all don't like talking about it either.

BRIGGS THIS IS WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT

playa2 wrote:BRIGGS THIS IS WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT

playa--that movie is 30 years old. The *Duke's* of Wall Street have long been supplanted by the Gordon Gecko's of the world--who don't give a fck about any other color than green and their treadmill. Believe me my friend--this is not something I would use to make an example of--it's not 1983 its 2010--wake up--it's all about the individual now--ANYONE can make it in this country--you just have to work hard to get it.

Soul Man? Trading Places?

BRIGGS wrote:

playa2 wrote:BRIGGS THIS IS WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT

playa--that movie is 30 years old. The *Duke's* of Wall Street have long been supplanted by the Gordon Gecko's of the world--who don't give a fck about any other color than green and their treadmill. Believe me my friend--this is not something I would use to make an example of--it's not 1983 its 2010--wake up--it's all about the individual now--ANYONE can make it in this country--you just have to work hard to get it.

I don't know Briggs. I agree that anyone can do it, but it seems like in order for a minority to make it, they have to REALLY make themselves stand out by putting forth a superior effort, as opposed to just working hard. Particularly minorities coming from poor areas. Meanwhile, while you're correct that the only color of concern is green, the stereotypes and racial biases STILL stick in the back of peoples minds, which influences plenty of behavior and decision making.

I don't agree with Playa AT ALL with his conspiracy theories, but on this he's correct. If we want to continue being the best country in the world, and work towards being an even better best, we have to all hold accountability when it comes to uninstitutionalized racism. Minorities have to hold accountability towards themselves, and white people have to admit that there's a problem, and it's something we all have to work towards together. It's simple and trivial, but truthful.

I think Playa's point is white people don't understand the external force such as a stare, an expression of disaproval that can play on ones self esteem. Or in this case a race of people.

Playa don't udnerstand that a dumb ass movie to prove a point is.........pointless!

Allanfan20 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

playa2 wrote:BRIGGS THIS IS WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT

playa--that movie is 30 years old. The *Duke's* of Wall Street have long been supplanted by the Gordon Gecko's of the world--who don't give a fck about any other color than green and their treadmill. Believe me my friend--this is not something I would use to make an example of--it's not 1983 its 2010--wake up--it's all about the individual now--ANYONE can make it in this country--you just have to work hard to get it.

I don't know Briggs. I agree that anyone can do it, but it seems like in order for a minority to make it, they have to REALLY make themselves stand out by putting forth a superior effort, as opposed to just working hard. Particularly minorities coming from poor areas. Meanwhile, while you're correct that the only color of concern is green, the stereotypes and racial biases STILL stick in the back of peoples minds, which influences plenty of behavior and decision making.

I don't agree with Playa AT ALL with his conspiracy theories, but on this he's correct. If we want to continue being the best country in the world, and work towards being an even better best, we have to all hold accountability when it comes to uninstitutionalized racism. Minorities have to hold accountability towards themselves, and white people have to admit that there's a problem, and it's something we all have to work towards together. It's simple and trivial, but truthful.

Thanks Allanfann I really appreciate your understanding man. FOREAL !

Well, I think Kam has a point here, although I would've chosen a little bit different wording. I think there's a difference between what you're talking about, TMS, and what playa is talking about. I think playa's version is paranoia, and this was highlighted by the way he chose to present his initial points. What I am concerned about is that there is an element of perceived racism where they might be little or none at all, just some perception. The article highlighted the same paranoia and also showed a hint of the same attitude towards males.

Here's an example. Let's say that you're a minority and your coworker gets a promotion that you think you should've had. I think most people, regardless of race, think one of two things: 1) "What could I have done more/differently?" and/or 2) "Maybe my boss doesn't like me or appreciate my work." I think that these are normal and rational responses. I think most people would not jump to a racist conclusion unless there was some evidence that it may be the case.

However, if playa was in the situation, I believe he would, unfortunately, jump to "my boss didn't give me the promotion because I'm black." Playa will believe this until proven otherwise. He has demonstrated this mentality many times with his posts on the forums. The problem I have here is I don't think it's fair to jump to this conclusion without some evidence. This is just a case of jumping the shark.

I hope this makes sense. I don't really mean to stoop to playa's level by calling him out, but I did want to point out that while people are seemingly agreeing with playa, I think the motives are quite different. Anyway, I don't think you're going to find a good discussion of this on a sports forum, which is why I agree with Kam that this thread should never have existed here in the first place.

this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

TMS wrote:this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

Well, I guess we just don't agree, then. I think this thread was intentionally made to provoke and annoy people. The 50 points were incredibly stereotypical and the article was completely one-sided and biased, so it's no surprise playa posted it. Playa has a reputation, yes, but he lives up to it. His intentions are obvious. This, again, is why the thread should not have been posted. If you're saying you can post anything in the off topic forum, technically, that's true. However, some etiquette and common courtesy would be nice.

As for BRIGGS thread, he simply said he was against people crossing the border illegally. I don't think BRIGGS posted with the intention of upsetting people and I didn't find his post offensive. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Solace wrote:

TMS wrote:this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

Well, I guess we just don't agree, then. I think this thread was intentionally made to provoke and annoy people. The 50 points were incredibly stereotypical and the article was completely one-sided and biased, so it's no surprise playa posted it. Playa has a reputation, yes, but he lives up to it. His intentions are obvious. This, again, is why the thread should not have been posted. If you're saying you can post anything in the off topic forum, technically, that's true. However, some etiquette and common courtesy would be nice.

As for BRIGGS thread, he simply said he was against people crossing the border illegally. I don't think BRIGGS posted with the intention of upsetting people and I didn't find his post offensive. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

All interesting points regarding Playa and if this thread should have been allowed.

The bottom line: As of now, there are 3 pages, with 70 posts and 634 views. People have been civil in their responses. I think it is a good topic. Just Playa's style which comes into question.

TMS wrote:this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

Be honest--I said that people coming into this country should do it the right way--whatever the legal way it is. That is what i said--you must work for the media because you twist my words around whenever it fits your point. If people want to come to the US to be a US citizen from any country--I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with people bum rushing into the country illegally and using it's assets[health care et al]--not paying taxes taking jobs from actual citizens drug smuggling committing crimes and its provides an easy soft target for terrorists to walk right in and set up shop. I can't see why 1 American would not agree with me. Do it the legal way--there is no other view point that is reasonable.

When you are "illegal", you are more subject to be violated and abused.

Perhaps if you are poor and disadvantaged in Mexico, columbia, etc, the same exists, but thats another story.

BRIGGS wrote:

TMS wrote:this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

Be honest--I said that people coming into this country should do it the right way--whatever the legal way it is. That is what i said--you must work for the media because you twist my words around whenever it fits your point. If people want to come to the US to be a US citizen from any country--I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with people bum rushing into the country illegally and using it's assets[health care et al]--not paying taxes taking jobs from actual citizens drug smuggling committing crimes and its provides an easy soft target for terrorists to walk right in and set up shop. I can't see why 1 American would not agree with me. Do it the legal way--there is no other view point that is reasonable.

the truth is you are just as agenda driven in your posting as playa is regarded to be in his... your "nuke them back to the stone age" threads don't exactly promote brotherly love & tolerance either yet i never see members coming down on you for posting your views on this forum... i don't see why others should be made to feel like they can't discuss certain issues they feel are worthy of discussion, especially when it's dealing with racial topics... the fact that you can't discuss these issues without resorting to corny ass jokes that try to minimalize the seriousness of the topic speaks a lot to how you view these issues.

TMS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TMS wrote:this is the Off Topic forum so any topic you want to talk about can be talked about as long as you're not offending the other posters here... if BRIGGS can post up threads telling people in Mexico to stay on their side of the border without being made to feel like he'll be banned for discussing it, i don't see why playa can't post a thread like this one... racial discussions aren't exactly uncommon on these forums.

again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

Be honest--I said that people coming into this country should do it the right way--whatever the legal way it is. That is what i said--you must work for the media because you twist my words around whenever it fits your point. If people want to come to the US to be a US citizen from any country--I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with people bum rushing into the country illegally and using it's assets[health care et al]--not paying taxes taking jobs from actual citizens drug smuggling committing crimes and its provides an easy soft target for terrorists to walk right in and set up shop. I can't see why 1 American would not agree with me. Do it the legal way--there is no other view point that is reasonable.

the truth is you are just as agenda driven in your posting as playa is regarded to be in his... your "nuke them back to the stone age" threads don't exactly promote brotherly love & tolerance either yet i never see members coming down on you for posting your views on this forum... i don't see why others should be made to feel like they can't discuss certain issues they feel are worthy of discussion, especially when it's dealing with racial topics... the fact that you can't discuss these issues without resorting to corny ass jokes that try to minimalize the seriousness of the topic speaks a lot to how you view these issues.

Do you have a link? I have no idea what thread you're referring to. Maybe I missed it. I had been away for a while.

As for the members coming down; it's simply that nobody wants to feel like they're the enemy. I think most people here are good people who try to do their best. When playa makes a thread like this, it undermines that. There's no real way to be accepting of his point of view when he's busy blindly pointing the finger. Some issues exist, sure, and I think most people try to be cognizant and sensitive to those issues when they actually occur. We aren't taught to ignore them, like the article claims. I still don't know what the point of this thread is.

you're going to have to dig for it, there's been a few instances of the types of threads i'm referring to dealing with North Korea & Iran... anyway, i don't begrudge anyone's right to talk about a topic... if i disagree with someone's views, i'll post my reasons on the thread, but personally i don't think anyone should be telling someone else not to talk about any particular issue... if they don't want to participate, it's easy not to... just pass over the thread.

i agree that no one likes to feel like they're being accused of racist views or selective ignorance... & maybe as a white person sometimes it gets tiresome to always feel like the race card is flashed by minorities... i can understand why you might have felt a thread like this was created to incite rather than debate, but personally i didn't get that inclination just by reading the list that playa posted... maybe speaking from a minority's point of view i can't really understand where you might be coming from on this, but i do know where playa is coming from... i didn't see anywhere that he mentioned that all white people felt the same, he merely pointed out 1 person's realizations about the many privileges they enjoy living in this country that many others of minority descent might not necessarily share... as you can see from some of the comments on this thread, these are real issues that people of varying racial & ethnic backgrounds have varying opinions on... it deserves discussion IMO... everyone's got different life experiences... maybe talking about those varying viewpoints helps people understand where each other is coming from... just my take... you're free to disagree.

TMS wrote:you're going to have to dig for it, there's been a few instances of the types of threads i'm referring to dealing with North Korea & Iran... anyway, i don't begrudge anyone's right to talk about a topic...

There is a way to introduce a thread or article, especially one as sensitive as this one. Having an initial post such as this one is the completely wrong way to go about it; we have already repeatedly asked playa to not post this way. There is context, opinion, etc that could easily be added but has not been. End of story.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:you're going to have to dig for it, there's been a few instances of the types of threads i'm referring to dealing with North Korea & Iran... anyway, i don't begrudge anyone's right to talk about a topic...

There is a way to introduce a thread or article, especially one as sensitive as this one. Having an initial post such as this one is the completely wrong way to go about it; we have already repeatedly asked playa to not post this way. There is context, opinion, etc that could easily be added but has not been. End of story.

Thank you, martin. I think you may have phrased that better than what I was saying. That basically 100% summarizes my feelings on the topic.

I agree with you, TMS, that there is a good discussion to be had, but I don't think it will happen with a thread that started off this way. Perhaps, it would be prudent to lock this thread and start a new one on a better foot? Just my two cents.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:you're going to have to dig for it, there's been a few instances of the types of threads i'm referring to dealing with North Korea & Iran... anyway, i don't begrudge anyone's right to talk about a topic...

There is a way to introduce a thread or article, especially one as sensitive as this one. Having an initial post such as this one is the completely wrong way to go about it; we have already repeatedly asked playa to not post this way. There is context, opinion, etc that could easily be added but has not been. End of story.

from what i can see there's been some very good discussion going on in this thread aside from the lame jokes some people chose to try & make light of the issue with... you're free to run your forums however you like but sometimes it seems like a very gray area as to where you draw your lines in terms of what content is & isn't appropriate for these forums... personally i found that "bomb North Korea" thread to be pretty ignorant & borderline offensive, but i don't recall you or anyone else ever chiming in about how those types of threads could have been presented in a different fashion.

TMS wrote:
again, i don't think playa posted this thread to offend but to bring these issues to light for discussion... i think people are judging his intentions based on reputation rather than on the actual thread.

TMS are you the only one who truly understands my intention on this thread , or do people have this it doesn't effect me lets not talk about it mentality.

My intentions was to give people a chance to see what it's like to live in America and not be given an equal chance when everybody else says it's 2010 and the game field is even.

This was a caucasian women professor making these points not me. I'm under the impression that most have no clue on how minorites feel everyday of their lives in a world that's tough on everybody, but at the same time how minorities have to fight thru the barriers of the color of their skin on many avenues wayyyyy to much even in 2010. This hasn't gone away it's still here.

Just become one for a week and watch what happens to your life and how you are reacted to and how you would function in your world. It would cause many to have more empathy to the plight of hard working minorities.