Knicks · Dispelling the myth that the Knuggets are like the Championship Piston team (page 1)

I am so tired of hearing this. First off, the Nuggets were better than us before the trade. They had better role players, I think their star was better than ours, and they were bigger. Then we gave them good young players, for their star and they are better than we are right now. Thats just the reality, we have some holes in our roster as a result of making the trade, and we'll have to resolve them via free agency and through the draft. But lets not kid ourselves that these kids are the 2003 Pistons.

Pistons 2003 Championship Team

Rip Hamilton - a guy who averaged 18 & 20 ppg his 2nd and 3rd year in the league. Good defender, in the reggie Miller sense.
Ben Wallace - Defensive player of the year 4 years 02-06, who also lead the league in rebounds 02 & 03
Rasheed Wallace - a guy who was the top dog/top scorer on a portland team that was winning 50+ multiple years. Almost winning 60 games one season, who was in his playing prime at 28-29 when traded mid-season to Detroit. Excellent man to man defender and protector of the paint. SUper long arms.
Chauncey Billups - an oversize scoring PG, who was known as a good defender.
Tayshaun Prince - rookie SF, good shooter, long arms good defender.

Larry Brown - Super defensive minded coach.

These Pistons were 2nd in the league in defense, playing the slowest of half court games you can imagine.

Their starting 5 are all good defenders. 2 of whom were also 20 ppg guys, one a big one a wing.

Denver has neither the defensive players, or defensive minded coach to do what Detroit did. They have a good, mainly young team,
and alot of good role players. They are extremely deep, Detroit wasn't but they had much better players.

Al harrington isn't leading anyone anywhere, but he's a great player to have come off the bench and light it up.
JR smith is a volume shooter, who isn't known for his defense.
Nene good, big, can score, should be a better rebounder, and defender, although I'd obviously love to have him.
Ray Felton - Solid on both ends of the court.
Will CHandler - Tweener, but good player on both ends.
Gallo - good on both ends.
Ty Lawson - Good fast, young PG, who is undersized
Kenyon Martin - past his prime, he's 33 and either won be effective or wont be around much longer.

All of these players excel in an uptempo game. None of them are monsters on defense or on the glass although some like Gallo and Will rebound well for their positions.

They are not half court players.

Again, this isn't to disparage their team, They've got alot of good pieces and they have the ability to turn those pieces into a star player. Thats what they will need to do to compete for a championship. They CAN actually do that, and it will be interesting to see it play out. But as presently constructed, I don't ever see the team they have competing for a chip against Durant, Kobe, or Duncan. Maybe they can beat Dallas, but thats a long shot,

I actually think Portland is a better team than them, and they are just as young, very deep and better defensively.

Good luck to the nuggets, especially to all of the young guys who I've watched develop for the past couple of years. I miss them, I hope they develop nicely, but I have no illusions about what they are as BBall players, and I do not think they are more championship bound then we are in the next 4.

Killa4luv - nice analysis, and no way am I crowning the Denver Knicks but...

who was on the Pistons bench?

The Nuggets have two complete NBA teams and are LONG.

Ty Lawson/ Chauncey Billups: advantage Mister Big Shot
Afflalo/ Rip Hamilton: advantage the mask
Gallo/ Tayshaun Prince: Gallo drives it harder these days, advantage hairdo
Martin/ Ben Wallace: both beasting inside
Nene/ Rasheed Wallace

Please continue to match up with the rest of the Pistons roster

Felton, scrappy-do sets the tone
JR Smith, 6'6' stick of dynamite, nearly so gifted as Kobe (his brain is another matter)
Harrington, 6'9 and will bring energy for a short shift
Chandler, don't sleep 6'8 The Mayor's defense
Mozgov, looks fluid and has great footwork for a 7' BIG man
Anderson, 6'10 comic relief role player with too many tats
Koufos with fouls to give at 7'0

Excellent analysis. Also, the reason that the Not Ready for Prime Time Nuggets have done better than the Knicks recently is the fact that they had to only replace one player in their starting five where we had to replace 3 and some could argue 4 since Chandler was getting starter minutes. This is all an illusion which time will expose. The Nuggets are headed for the trash bin of history.

The other little known fact is that ownership has made staying under the cap a priority. They also own the local hockey team and have done the same thing to it, namely, instituting a cost cutting program which has resulted in the once mighty Avs residing near the bottom of the NHL standings. The ownership is more interested in the bottom line rather than building a contender. And the way the ownership, media and fans have treated Melo after his departure ensures no other star will want to play in Denver for the foreseeable future.

lol...nuggets a title team?

who said this?

i'll say...

hellz no

misterearl wrote:Killa4luv - nice analysis, and no way am I crowning the Denver Knicks but...

who was on the Pistons bench?

The Nuggets have two complete NBA teams and are LONG.

Ty Lawson/ Chauncey Billups: advantage Mister Big Shot
Afflalo/ Rip Hamilton: advantage the mask
Gallo/ Tayshaun Prince: Gallo drives it harder these days, advantage hairdo
Martin/ Ben Wallace: both beasting inside
Nene/ Rasheed Wallace

Please continue to match up with the rest of the Pistons roster

Felton, scrappy-do sets the tone
JR Smith, 6'6' stick of dynamite, nearly so gifted as Kobe (his brain is another matter)
Harrington, 6'9 and will bring energy for a short shift
Chandler, don't sleep 6'8 The Mayor's defense
Mozgov, looks fluid and has great footwork for a 7' BIG man
Anderson, 6'10 comic relief role player with too many tats
Koufos with fouls to give at 7'0

Gallo is a more versatile scorer, Prince is a good scorer and a really good defender.
Really? 4x Defensive player of the year and 2x rebounding champ is on equal footing with K-Mart? Really?

PresIke wrote:lol...nuggets a title team?

who said this?

i'll say...

hellz no

Probably not, but it would be funny as shit.

these nuggets would rip those pistons a new hole in their backside, those pistons got through the weakest conference ever in the history of the nba and of the universe. and then they faced a crumbling lakers team that was rotting from the inside. it was a perfect storm, they don't win that championship in 200 more tries.

orangeblobman wrote:these nuggets would rip those pistons a new hole in their backside, those pistons got through the weakest conference ever in the history of the nba and of the universe. and then they faced a crumbling lakers team that was rotting from the inside. it was a perfect storm, they don't win that championship in 200 more tries.

Beat everyone in the east then manhandle ttheteam that beat everyone in the west. Yeah, those lucky mofos.

Killa4luv wrote:

misterearl wrote:Killa4luv - nice analysis, and no way am I crowning the Denver Knicks but...

who was on the Pistons bench?

The Nuggets have two complete NBA teams and are LONG.

Ty Lawson/ Chauncey Billups: advantage Mister Big Shot
Afflalo/ Rip Hamilton: advantage the mask
Gallo/ Tayshaun Prince: Gallo drives it harder these days, advantage hairdo
Martin/ Ben Wallace: both beasting inside
Nene/ Rasheed Wallace

Please continue to match up with the rest of the Pistons roster

Felton, scrappy-do sets the tone
JR Smith, 6'6' stick of dynamite, nearly so gifted as Kobe (his brain is another matter)
Harrington, 6'9 and will bring energy for a short shift
Chandler, don't sleep 6'8 The Mayor's defense
Mozgov, looks fluid and has great footwork for a 7' BIG man
Anderson, 6'10 comic relief role player with too many tats
Koufos with fouls to give at 7'0

Gallo is a more versatile scorer, Prince is a good scorer and a really good defender.
Really? 4x Defensive player of the year and 2x rebounding champ is on equal footing with K-Mart? Really?

Ten Deep

killa4luv - the matchups are not posed as equals. I despise comparisons. I'm simply putting slots side by side for entertainment purposes. I notice you still have yet to name one player on the Pistons bench.

Denver runs two complete teams and you cannot deny that is nothing to (atch-chOO)!) sneeze at.

Knuggets = Dynasty

Best team in the West.

The funny thing was when the trade went down everyone went out of there way to say that we got the best two players in the deals. False. (Btw Nuggets replacing two starter to our three)

The said we were crazy to not make the deal and the Nuggets were getting nice players.

Fast foward to the Nuggets blowing teams off the floor and not just any teams good teams. We have two quality wins and struggled against the most medicore teams in the league.

If you want to go down the line player for player.

Felton/Lawson > Billups/Hunter

Affalo/Smith > Hamilton

Chandler/Gallo > Prince

Wallace > Martin

Wallace/Okur > Nene/Anderson/Moz

They are 15-4 (Boston, Lakers) and the games they lost were (Portland miracle 3pointer to send the game into overtime) Magic (at the buzzer) the heat barely.

We suck period. We are the 19 best team in the league and we are playing guys that should be in the NBDL (Williams, Carter, Jefferies) The trade was not and will never be a good move. Amare looks downright lost with Melo on the floor, the team is boring to watch and running an isolation 30% of the time is not basketball.

Where exactly is this "myth" coming from?

Denver has played good ball- at home and on the road, but they have not even had a single playoff victory with this squad.

Their defensive turnaround has been pretty amazing, their offense has not lost a step, and they are one of the deeper teams you will every see in the NBA.

Don't know how they will do in the playoffs, but I think that what they've done so far is pretty impressive, and the victory in LA was just another step for them.

If they are healthy, they will be an interesting team to watch in the playoffs.

This thread is kind of interesting as it took the Pistons a few tries and some fortune to get there...... a Boston trade......and a Lakers internal implosion. As currently constructed Denver probably won't get it done this year but they haven't even been together a half a season yet. They do however have almost every need covered. What they don't have is experience and this comes with time.

They are young

They have cap flexibility to retain their full roster and utilize the numerous exceptions to add to it

They have future assets galore from our trade

They have a very capable front office of putting pieces together

Paladin55 wrote:Where exactly is this "myth" coming from?

one could say that there is a myth about there being a myth.

I'd say the Trade reduced my intesity for the Knicks and added interest to the Knuggs.

Its a myth that "man up" or "im right" is really important.

I look at the Knuggs have a potential to make trouble in the west. Pau is injured and Bynum is a butterfly wing breeze away from getting hurt. If Lakes are healthy nobody should give them trouble.

But Knuggs have can be very dangerous. They have a team that can balls to the wall for all 48 minutes.

The success of the Knuggs really does not have an impact of the trade. Knuggs had a very nice team before the trade.

The way the media portrayed it, it would have been very good if Melo signed as a free agent. In time we learned that was never really going to happen.

Can one like Melo and at the same time think we could have overpaid?

It's a pleasure watching the Nuggets just like it was interesting watching guys figure it out early in the season. Watching Fields work off of Gallo, Amare, Chandler and Felton and the progression of a young team finding itself.

I have to be honest and I know I'm not alone. It's a real struggle to get into the game these days. Melo firing everyone time he touches it and having little to no movement without the ball. The Knicks are what they are a medicore team with little room for improvement. There is no guy to watch there is no player to get behind.

Would have been nice to see a young team attack in the playoffs.

Walking The Sixteenth Street Mall With The Answer Man

MS - "Would have been nice to see a young team attack in the playoffs."

AM - Get over it. You can always watch Oklahoma City. Hey, nice train station!

MS - "I have to be honest and I know I'm not alone."

AM - You are alone. I have to be honest you are starting to sound like you had a stale bottle of Coors.

MS - "It's a real struggle to get into the game these days."

AM - Try the brownies from Jenny's in Negril, Jamaica

MS - "Melo firing everyone time he touches it..."

AM - No big deal. Just be thankful he is better than Jamal Crawford. Enjoy how he attacks the rim with amazing grace.

MS - "The Knicks are what they are a medicore team with little room for improvement."

AM - The Knicks are a playoff team. Anything can happen. The room for improvement opens up once the lockout is settled.

MS - "There is no guy to watch there is no player to get behind."

AM - What kinda guy did you have in mind? I can watch the Landry Fields Modells skit over and over. It never gets old.

MS wrote:It's a pleasure watching the Nuggets just like it was interesting watching guys figure it out early in the season. Watching Fields work off of Gallo, Amare, Chandler and Felton and the progression of a young team finding itself.

I have to be honest and I know I'm not alone. It's a real struggle to get into the game these days. Melo firing everyone time he touches it and having little to no movement without the ball. The Knicks are what they are a medicore team with little room for improvement. There is no guy to watch there is no player to get behind.

Would have been nice to see a young team attack in the playoffs.

Melo hasn't been extremely bad here and he's practically single handedly won some games. In the Playoffs the games will slow down and we'll see more of his flaws if we haven't already. He's trying to transform his game some but ultimately he is what he is. A great iso offensive talent. We have zero margin for error. Even when we win, we don't play the kind of sustainable defense to be taken seriously.

Fans got their playoffs but will see how far away we really are.

The Juice is loose (and correct)

Our beloved Knicks are playing a dangerous game of four card monty.

After Billups, Anthony, Stoudemire and Fields there is a significant drop in consistent production. There is no quality depth None. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Nyet. Zero.

To win in the playoffs it will require at least two more players to step up and into the spotlight.

Effort and "unmeasurables" do not count. Give me the contributions that have a column in the stat book.

Looks like the Nuggets are 17-4 since the trade? This is going to be interesting.

Nene playing for a contract
JR Smith playing for a contract
Affalo playing for a contract
Kenyon Martin playing for a contract

Team is going to very different next year.