martin wrote:I don't think TD played well in the PG role, but forcing a young backup into a starting role against perhaps the best half court defense in the league that really only has to focus on Melo doesn't really seem to me the best way to judge a player.
TD has been in this system the longest he should be able to step it up though.
Douglas had 9 assists the entire series.
loweyecue wrote:martin wrote:I don't think TD played well in the PG role, but forcing a young backup into a starting role against perhaps the best half court defense in the league that really only has to focus on Melo doesn't really seem to me the best way to judge a player.
TD has been in this system the longest he should be able to step it up though.
I have been up and down on TD all year, mostly down. Part of what can make TD very good is his speed and offensive ability, a lot of which was taken down a few notches early on cause of shoulder injury second game of season.
TD has been in the system the longest, but when you have a revolving door of players, I am not sure how much that means - everyone has to be on the same page for a system to work, and especially considering the last Melo overhaul, how much did that change the system (again)? I am also pretty sure the system is completely different pre-Amare and with Amare.
We all know that TD is not a classic pass-first PG. I am not even convinced he knows how to turn the corner and penetrate. BUT, how long does it take for PGs to develop, especially one transitioning from SG? Or, has even progressed? Or progressed enough?
Mike Conley FINALLY looks good as a PG running a team. High draft pick, classic PG in his 4th year. Does he do the same 2 years ago?
Douglas is a keeper? Really? A guy who isn't a PG even by accident, who is an undersized SG with a streaky shot and bad defense?
I co-sign this thread because I don't see a good use for Douglas in the future. I think we may already have the good backup SG in Fields, who I hope can go back to what he was pre-trade.
Let's place all our attention on Tony D! His $1 mil a year are just way too much! Landry is next, his 800 is just going to kill us next year.
Love the knee jerk reaction.
Lets trade him after a bad series. What does that bring?
I think GM's know his value.
TD's play kind of reminded me of Kobe Bryant's first experience in the playoffs (albeit as an 18 year old!)... taking big shots down the stretch (and in some cases, shooting airballs) and gambling a lot on defense.
He's had flashes of brilliance this year. I'd say that he's along the lines of a Leandro Barbosa-type of combo-guard, perhaps better, perhaps a little more upside. I'd like to think he'll come back next season with more PG poise... and an improved ability to execute the pick and roll, and less of a tendency to run into charges.
On a team like the Knicks with superstars in Carmelo and Amare, you really need a veteran pass-first sort of player available to just run plays and get some basic production from the system. The Knicks had great success pre-Carmelo trade with players like Chandler/Felton/Gallo/Fields playing like stars just by running the system.
With Stat and Melo team need PG like Fisher in LA. Like Nash of Bilups but not 100 years old.
Some PG who can hit open 3, bring the ball up and pass it to Melo or Stat. PNR is a plus. Penetrating and breaking the defense a big plus.
What it has to do with Tony?
Fields was great this year but play-offs were too much for him.
Both kids can still get it zo. They are not a problem for us in any case so why not run them for another year?
technomaster wrote:TD's play kind of reminded me of Kobe Bryant's first experience in the playoffs (albeit as an 18 year old!)... taking big shots down the stretch (and in some cases, shooting airballs) and gambling a lot on defense.He's had flashes of brilliance this year. I'd say that he's along the lines of a Leandro Barbosa-type of combo-guard, perhaps better, perhaps a little more upside. I'd like to think he'll come back next season with more PG poise... and an improved ability to execute the pick and roll, and less of a tendency to run into charges.
On a team like the Knicks with superstars in Carmelo and Amare, you really need a veteran pass-first sort of player available to just run plays and get some basic production from the system. The Knicks had great success pre-Carmelo trade with players like Chandler/Felton/Gallo/Fields playing like stars just by running the system.
This is not for NYC. We need Stars not systems.
Leave the systems in San Antonio, Utah, and Denver.
TS might look a lot better with a different coach.
Don't know if its a knee-jerk reaction from others, but I've never been fond of Douglas' game because he has and keeps being used as a backup PG, which he isn't and is pretty bad at. &e also is a streaky shooter and gives you a game of brillance followed by 9 disappearing acts.
I believe we need a starting SG. Once we get it, if we do, I see Fields as the backup SG. If Fields can be close to what he was at the begining of the season, he will be a heck of a backup SG. I don't mind keeping Doug, but not at his current role and probably a less significant one, so if we can improve the team in other areas by trading him, I wouldn't mind.
Sangfroid wrote:His value is super low, just like Fields. We're stuck with them both.
Agreed. Fields hit the proverbial "rookie wall" and I am excited to see what he can do with a training camp to find and get comfortable in niche role. I'm not too worried there.
TD was just in way over his head and hopefully he comes back strong next season. He needs to make passing the basketball effectively a part of his game bc it really has been awful to watch all year.
Douglas has played the same way all season. The difference is Amare was beasting then so when Douglas sucked no one noticed.
Nalod wrote:Love the knee jerk reaction.Lets trade him after a bad series. What does that bring?
I think GM's know his value.
There's nothing knee jerking when it comes to Douglas. There was a moment during the year he appeared to try and play more natural..... when he did he looked a hot mess....went to the sideline during a break in the game and the coach told him VERBATIM.....DO WHAT YOU DO
Douglas since that game hasn't disappointed HUMPING HIMSELF
Douglas never was and never will be a PG. When Anthony Carter is consistently outplaying you then you are not worthy of minutes. Douglas has Jamal Crawford's basketball IQ with some defensive instincts.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Douglas never was and never will be a PG. When Anthony Carter is consistently outplaying you then you are not worthy of minutes. Douglas has Jamal Crawford's basketball IQ with some defensive instincts.
This is like the Nate Robinson situation all over again. Fans thought he was a point guard...some still do or think he can be....lol
The proper thing to do with Douglas would have been to give him the keys last year and told Duhon he's assigned perma backup duties starting the season(he wasn't coming back regardless), that way Dougies bad tendencies would have been broken probably midway this season. We do things Bass Ackwards or wait until ish hits the fan when dealing with players. You know how we gave Fields the keys to be the starting 2. Yes he's in a rut but sure enough Fields learned a lot sink or swim. I bet Douglas is confused as fudge right now
I've already said my piece on Toney a thousand times. He relies on his shooting. When its falling, he looks good. And when it's not, he is a complete waste of a player who rarely gets to the basket, cant run a pick and roll, and has no idea how to play PG. His defense is good when he is focused, which isn't often enough. I would gladly take Duhon back as a backup point if it means no more toney.
I'd like to see what Toney can do with another coach before we dump him.
This strikes me as the same Addition by Subtraction mentality that wanted Kurt Thomas gone.
And by the way, KT at 38 years of age is still a better rebounder than anyone on this squad.
This guy is a good player. He had a bad series. Played too tentatively. But he's shown to be better than that over the course of the year and you can't discount that. He's coming alone just fine in my eyes. He was a late first rounder with a 10 ppg per game average playing mostly as a bench player. Thats pretty good.
VDesai wrote:This guy is a good player. He had a bad series. Played too tentatively. But he's shown to be better than that over the course of the year and you can't discount that. He's coming alone just fine in my eyes. He was a late first rounder with a 10 ppg per game average playing mostly as a bench player. Thats pretty good.
agree 100% td matured a ton this year. he had a bad series in which he looked to revert back to his old habits but over the course of the year we saw him really evolve into a nice player. this bad series will be good for his growth.
nyk4ever wrote:VDesai wrote:This guy is a good player. He had a bad series. Played too tentatively. But he's shown to be better than that over the course of the year and you can't discount that. He's coming alone just fine in my eyes. He was a late first rounder with a 10 ppg per game average playing mostly as a bench player. Thats pretty good.
agree 100% td matured a ton this year. he had a bad series in which he looked to revert back to his old habits but over the course of the year we saw him really evolve into a nice player. this bad series will be good for his growth.
The veteran helped cut a 23-point deficit to four. He scored 11 points and pressured Rondo in the backcourt, whereas Douglas gave him plenty of room to operate."It wasn't the instruction; I just got tired of seeing it the whole series," Carter said. "We just had to try something different, make him work a little bit because he has so much energy when he's coming across the court with no ball pressure. Anybody can play 48 minutes like that.
Douglas has suffered through a back injury and then hurt his right shoulder, which has bothered him almost all season. He re-aggravated the shoulder going for a steal in Game 3, and admitted it affected him yesterday. "I played," Douglas said, "but I wasn't going to miss this game for nothing."
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/guard_en_groan_PpgMMfpqOAc9m1R6wWlG7N#ixzz1KY54gosS
I'd like to see him play on Minnesota and see how he does," D'Antoni said. "It's everybody. Everybody's tied together. They have three Hall of Famers out there. Now Rondo's a very, very good basketball player, really good. But if you look at their team and assess, 'What can we take away; what do we have to give them and play the odds?' then one thing is his shot. Try to close up the middle on him."
To me this is about making an adjustment. One that did not come until carter took it upon himself to change the way they were guarding Rondo.
TD's game has always been part ball denial and pressuri9ng the ball. He was instructed not to do either. In my mind this is a failure by the coach to make an adjustment to what is happening on the floor. In it's time NYK's have traded away bunches of talent. He wouldn't be the first.
