Knicks · How Long Does It Take A Roster Of Strangers To Play As One? (page 1)

Last year at this time we were still talking about Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Ray Felton. We were talking Andy Rautins, Anthony Carter and Ronny Turiaf.

As it stands, Tony Douglas is the longest tenured Knick. Think of it this way, if Douglas is moved, the longest tenured Knicks player becomes Amar'e Stoudemire, who was signed in early July. Next comes Landry Fields, who signed in August. Bottom line, this is a pickup squad. A talented pickup squad, composed of men who are still making introductions.

Breakdown:

The Elders - Double-digit NBA experience in Bibby, Chandler and Davis. Stoudemire, Jeffries (9 years each) and Anthony (8 years) round out the elders. This is the essential group to have on the same page.

The Tweeners - (2-5 years experience) with Balkman, Douglas, Hunter and Walker. The Tweeners will follow the example set by The Elders. Any positive contribution from this crew is a bonus. Cheerleading is mandatory.

The Yoots - (rooks and one year experience) with Fields, Jordan, Green, Harrellson, and Shumpert. There is more talent here than with The Tweeners. Keys are Fields and Shumpert. If Josh Harrellson busts his first three pointer in The Garden he becomes an instant crowd favorite.

The Bad News

Bibby is fragile, Chandler takes a lot of hits, BDizzle's back is a question mark, Stoudemire's knees are tender, Jeffries still hasn't made a layup and Carmelo's elbow requires attention.

The Good News

There is balance. The elders own enough individual accomplishments to be respected. Outside of Chandler, none own a championship ring. They should all have their eyes focused on the prize. Anything else is just a distraction.

More Good News

Like the Geico gekko says, "fuggedaboudit, this is Noo Yawk!" The elders embrace the bright lights. That is a huge positive in a city that demands that you dive after loose balls. If the elders bring their A games to MSG, and a few choice words of leadership when things get dicey, they will be rewarded with the loudest roars we have heard since 1999.

Pass The Popcorn

this team 15-20 games

So, where does leave the Knicks roster? Let's look:

GUARDS
Mike Bibby
Baron Davis (injured)
Toney Douglas
Landry Fields
Devin Green
Iman Shumpert

FORWARDS
Carmelo Anthony
Renaldo Balkman
Chris Hunter
Jared Jeffries
Steve Novak
Amar'e Stoudemire
Bill Walker

CENTERS
Tyson Chandler
Josh Harrellson
Jerome Jordan

"That's not quite a championship roster ... but that'll sure be fun. Basketball Prospectus's SCHOENE rating system sees big things, particularly when/if Davis gets here. The Knicks still have a little money at the margins, but there aren't many free agents left. This might be it. This might be fine. Dunno about you, but we're about ready to begin this business." - NYMagazine

misterearl wrote:So, where does leave the Knicks roster? Let's look:

GUARDS
Mike Bibby
Baron Davis (injured)
Toney Douglas
Landry Fields
Devin Green
Iman Shumpert

FORWARDS
Carmelo Anthony
Renaldo Balkman
Chris Hunter
Jared Jeffries
Steve Novak
Amar'e Stoudemire
Bill Walker

CENTERS
Tyson Chandler
Josh Harrellson
Jerome Jordan

"That's not quite a championship roster ... but that'll sure be fun. Basketball Prospectus's SCHOENE rating system sees big things, particularly when/if Davis gets here. The Knicks still have a little money at the margins, but there aren't many free agents left. This might be it. This might be fine. Dunno about you, but we're about ready to begin this business." - NYMagazine

MisterEarl,

First of all, I agree with Guns estimation of 15-20 games. Minor growing pains.

Secondly, if you told me three months ago that this would be the roster before we played our 1st game in 2011-2012, I'd have waived the BS card and said no way. It's amazing how when one domino fell our way it created a snowball effect to add the additional players that we've been able to secure. I give major kudos to Glen and his staff for thinking outside the box and beating many teams to the punch. I haven't been this excited about a Knick team in years.

Anything to finally move on from the fuhhhhucking Melo trade threads

It will be faster than most years. This is the first season in the last 13 that the Knicks have their core roster set, firm and without trade talk hovering above their brains.

Consider that the rest of the league is also suffering from shortened training camps and pre-seasons, and consider that MDA has a knack for quickly meshing newcomers (we saw this after the Melo trade last season, where MDA managed to turn a drastically overhauled roster into a 42-40 playoff team), I think the Knicks will be breaking faces very quickly.

i think this is going to be a bumpy season of adjustments and waiting for baron to get healthy. once he's healthy, within 10 games or so, i think things will be humming. obviously that could be a while though.

what does struggle mean? Again... look at all the other teams. Everyone has the same problem except for a handful of teams.

.640 ball through 25 games looks something like this:
0-1 L Boston Celtics vs Boston
1-1 W Golden State Warriors @ Golden State
1-2 L Los Angeles Lakers @ LA Lakers
2-2 W Sacramento Kings @ Sacramento
3-2 W Toronto Raptors vs Toronto
4-2 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
5-2 W Washington Wizards @ Washington
6-2 W Detroit Pistons @ Detroit
7-2 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
8-2 W Philadelphia 76ers vs Philadelphia
9-3 W Memphis Grizzlies @ Memphis
9-4 L Oklahoma City Thunder @ Oklahoma City
10-4 W Orlando Magic vs Orlando
11-4 W Phoenix Suns vs Phoenix
12-4 W Milwaukee Bucks vs Milwaukee
13-4 W Denver Nuggets vs Denver
13-5 L Charlotte Bobcats @ Charlotte
14-5 W Cleveland Cavaliers @ Cleveland
14-6 L Miami Heat @ Miami
14-7 L Houston Rockets @ Houston
15-7 W Detroit Pistons vs Detroit
15-8 L Chicago Bulls vs Chicago
15-9 L Boston Celtics @ Boston
16-9 W New Jersey Nets vs New Jersey

No team w/ Chandler, Amare and Melo are going to struggle against these inferior teams. I think you will see a similar pattern you saw with the Heat last year... we cleanup on the NBA's bottom half and play .500 against the top half.

The team's success, according to Magic Johnson, comes down to how their two scoring stars co-exist.

"They were never in sync last season, so coach (Mike) D'Antoni has to figure out how to get them in sync and how to get them to play with each other and off of each other," Johnson said. "They're not even used to working with each other. It's going to take a while for them to figure out where each other likes to be, where am I supposed to be on offense?"

"Fans got to be patient, but number one, the players have got to be patient," Johnson said. "If they don't get off to a early good start, they've got to stick with it. Because once they get it down, they're going to be battling with Chicago and Miami for the Eastern Conference championship."

What will help this team is a better defensive front that we've had in the past. Even if the offensive chemistry isn't at peak performance there should be enough defense to at least see the team thru early offensive struggles. With MDA as coach I doubt that there will be a serious offensive struggle anyway, but if there is they can fallback on the defense a little more than in the past.

misterearl wrote:The team's success, according to Magic Johnson, comes down to how their two scoring stars co-exist.

"They were never in sync last season, so coach (Mike) D'Antoni has to figure out how to get them in sync and how to get them to play with each other and off of each other," Johnson said. "They're not even used to working with each other. It's going to take a while for them to figure out where each other likes to be, where am I supposed to be on offense?"

"Fans got to be patient, but number one, the players have got to be patient," Johnson said. "If they don't get off to a early good start, they've got to stick with it. Because once they get it down, they're going to be battling with Chicago and Miami for the Eastern Conference championship."

Fish, I agree with Magic. Kind of along the line my thinking but I don't have the "light up smile" or the memory of schtupping 10,000 women and a virus to prove it!

Funny, you got us losing to Charlotte in Charlotte, the game I got tickets to!

On paper your logic is sound.

fortunately, every team will be out of sync. I think the Knicks will be at a 10 game or less "playing together" disadvantage

NBA is going to be just like the playgrounds. The pickup team with most talent will win. There is no time for installing systems and philosophies. Teams will have to rely on talent for the most part.

might lose to Memphis in Memphis

fishmike wrote:what does struggle mean? Again... look at all the other teams. Everyone has the same problem except for a handful of teams.

.640 ball through 25 games looks something like this:
0-1 L Boston Celtics vs Boston
1-1 W Golden State Warriors @ Golden State
1-2 L Los Angeles Lakers @ LA Lakers
2-2 W Sacramento Kings @ Sacramento
3-2 W Toronto Raptors vs Toronto
4-2 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
5-2 W Washington Wizards @ Washington
6-2 W Detroit Pistons @ Detroit
7-2 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
8-2 W Philadelphia 76ers vs Philadelphia
9-3 W Memphis Grizzlies @ Memphis
9-4 L Oklahoma City Thunder @ Oklahoma City
10-4 W Orlando Magic vs Orlando
11-4 W Phoenix Suns vs Phoenix
12-4 W Milwaukee Bucks vs Milwaukee
13-4 W Denver Nuggets vs Denver
13-5 L Charlotte Bobcats @ Charlotte
14-5 W Cleveland Cavaliers @ Cleveland
14-6 L Miami Heat @ Miami
14-7 L Houston Rockets @ Houston
15-7 W Detroit Pistons vs Detroit
15-8 L Chicago Bulls vs Chicago
15-9 L Boston Celtics @ Boston
16-9 W New Jersey Nets vs New Jersey

I like to be cautious with my predictions as well. But if you look at our schedule it is very soft (aside from it being condensed, which everyone has to deal with). We are better than the Celtics. We are better than the Lakers. Yes, it'll take time to gel but I don't think it's going to resemble the period after teh Melo trade. My thoughts on how the first 20 games will go:

0-1 L Boston Celtics vs Boston
1-1 W Golden State Warriors @ Golden State
2-1 W Los Angeles Lakers @ LA Lakers
3-1 W Sacramento Kings @ Sacramento
4-1 W Toronto Raptors vs Toronto
5-1 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
6-1 W Washington Wizards @ Washington
7-1 W Detroit Pistons @ Detroit
8-1 W Charlotte Bobcats vs Charlotte
9-1 W Philadelphia 76ers vs Philadelphia
9-2 L Memphis Grizzlies @ Memphis
10-2 W Oklahoma City Thunder @ Oklahoma City
11-2 W Orlando Magic vs Orlando
12-2 W Phoenix Suns vs Phoenix
13-2 W Milwaukee Bucks vs Milwaukee
14-2 W Denver Nuggets vs Denver
15-2 W Charlotte Bobcats @ Charlotte
16-2 W Cleveland Cavaliers @ Cleveland
16-3 L Miami Heat @ Miami
17-3 W Houston Rockets @ Houston
18-3 W Detroit Pistons vs Detroit
19-3 W Chicago Bulls vs Chicago
20-3 W Boston Celtics @ Boston
21-3 W New Jersey Nets vs New Jersey

I think this is realistic and reality will be no worse than 3-5 games on the loss side. So ceiling of 21-3, floor of 16-8 theough first 24 games.

Nalod wrote:

misterearl wrote:The team's success, according to Magic Johnson, comes down to how their two scoring stars co-exist.

"They were never in sync last season, so coach (Mike) D'Antoni has to figure out how to get them in sync and how to get them to play with each other and off of each other," Johnson said. "They're not even used to working with each other. It's going to take a while for them to figure out where each other likes to be, where am I supposed to be on offense?"

"Fans got to be patient, but number one, the players have got to be patient," Johnson said. "If they don't get off to a early good start, they've got to stick with it. Because once they get it down, they're going to be battling with Chicago and Miami for the Eastern Conference championship."

Fish, I agree with Magic. Kind of along the line my thinking but I don't have the "light up smile" or the memory of schtupping 10,000 women and a virus to prove it!

Funny, you got us losing to Charlotte in Charlotte, the game I got tickets to!

On paper your logic is sound.

I didnt put much thought into those w/l predictions, only that the Knicks will probably play a bit below .500 against the top seeded playoff teams but should also clean up against the NBAs lower tier.

Melo and Amare are buddies. Chandler is a new vocal leader on defense and its leadership that will be backed up by good play. There are also plenty of shots. Melo/Amare dont really need to 'share' the ball. There are 20 shots a night for both of them.

Can anyone name a team as talented as the Knicks who didnt play .600 ball?

gunsnewing wrote:might lose to Memphis in Memphis

agreed... I wrote a W in there but actually tallied a loss. So the 16-9 through 25 is with a LOSS to Memphis. They will be good.

The post Melo trade is a bad measuring stick. We had NO players left. Fields struggled whether is was chemistry or rookie wall who knows? Douglas had a bad shoulder. The main guys after that were JJ, Shawn Williams and Turiaf who missed every other game.

The supporting cast is better, and Chandler brings so much leadership. Also Melo no longer has to carry this team, he just needs to be the lead scorer. Its the role he's besst in, and last time he had that role the Nuggets went to the WCF

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

misterearl wrote:The team's success, according to Magic Johnson, comes down to how their two scoring stars co-exist.

"They were never in sync last season, so coach (Mike) D'Antoni has to figure out how to get them in sync and how to get them to play with each other and off of each other," Johnson said. "They're not even used to working with each other. It's going to take a while for them to figure out where each other likes to be, where am I supposed to be on offense?"

"Fans got to be patient, but number one, the players have got to be patient," Johnson said. "If they don't get off to a early good start, they've got to stick with it. Because once they get it down, they're going to be battling with Chicago and Miami for the Eastern Conference championship."

Fish, I agree with Magic. Kind of along the line my thinking but I don't have the "light up smile" or the memory of schtupping 10,000 women and a virus to prove it!

Funny, you got us losing to Charlotte in Charlotte, the game I got tickets to!

On paper your logic is sound.

I didnt put much thought into those w/l predictions, only that the Knicks will probably play a bit below .500 against the top seeded playoff teams but should also clean up against the NBAs lower tier.

Melo and Amare are buddies. Chandler is a new vocal leader on defense and its leadership that will be backed up by good play. There are also plenty of shots. Melo/Amare dont really need to 'share' the ball. There are 20 shots a night for both of them.

Can anyone name a team as talented as the Knicks who didnt play .600 ball?

Sounds like Nixluva been swimming with the "Fishes"!

Can't name a team because at the end of the season they were exposed for what they were.

Fish, I think the season will be a more a tri-mester type. first third to gel, second to thrive then third to settle into a rotation for the playoffs.

I don't disagree with you at all. I expect chemistry issues and naturally expect them to work themselves thru. Thats why we tune in and watch.

Look at the philly eagles........would anyone expected them to be at .500 this late in the year? Vick is a big part but dude always misses games but they looked bad. ANyone expect them to struggle like this? ANyone expect Denver to be in first place with the worst QB in the game? Or Miami kick ass for a few games? Phucking KC beat Pack? Teams surge and fall back for various reasons.

Knicks last year had some incredible runs pre-melo. Im not comparing,,,,,,,,,

Its all about chemistry and the ebb and flow! On paper we are talented. The rest is gonna be hard work and buy in.

And trust me, I hope your more right than I am!

Under promise and over deliver!

Nalod I expect adjustment periods, some disappointing losses, some turned ankles... even a short season is a long season. I agree with everything in your last post. Its just a different beast being patient while Felton, Gallo and Chandler learn to close games around Amare. We have two good buddies who are elite scorers and finishers and Chandler is the 2nd best defensive player in the league. If you look at what made Boston great right away it was KG's defense behind Pierce/Allen's veteran ability to close out games.

I see us following that blue print. We have GREAT leadership on BOTH sides of the ball both on the court and on the sideline. We havent had that... ever? Amare tried last year, give him credit but its just too much for one guy.

This also isnt a GM created superteam. The 4 big guns all want to play together. They are all pushing and supporting the role players as well. The Eagles are 6-8 because they dont defend, cant close and have no leadership.

I think people are used to things not working out here and thats understandable, but Im really just calling it like I see it.

also Chandler, Amare and Baron Davis all love MDA. Melo seems on the fence. I bet that changes pretty soon