Douglas is the same player he was in his rookie year. There has been no progression in his game.
I like TD as a player, but he's a bad fit at PG and shouldn't be asked to do that. His game is that he provides scoring as the first guy off the bench.
y2zipper wrote:I like TD as a player, but he's a bad fit at PG and shouldn't be asked to do that. His game is that he provides scoring as the first guy off the bench.
which players would you propose takeove 48 minutes of PG duties tonight in TD's place?
The Answer Man Proposes Community Basketball
Q. SupremeC - which players would you propose takeover 48 minutes of PG duties tonight in TD's place?
A. The Answer Man is no coach, nor does he play one on tee vee... the options are still limited until Davis and Shumpert heal. Whether D'Antoni or any one else paints a happy face on it, for the month of January the Knicks are in a desperate situation in the backcourt. It will demand creative community basketball. The league is younger and quicker. Miami is on a mission.
First option - give Carmelo the keys to the car. He appears to be ready to step into the role as Magic Johnson Guard. Start him handling the ball for the first eight minutes to get him comfortable at the start of a game. Next eight minutes go to Bibby as Carmelo slides to the three. If it works, stay with it. If needed sprinkle some Toney Douglas (cough) advancing the ball and check the score at halftime.
Second option - stick with Douglas as the starter at point. Integrate Fields as a secondary ball handler. Bring Bibby at the 8 minute mark. Check the score at halftime and adjust accordingly. Carmelo gets cameo appearances at lead guard. Lin is nailed to the pine and only used in emergency.
Third option - start Bibby. Bring Jeremy Lin at the 8 minute mark and allow him to make his summer league/ pre season adjustments on the fly. If he shows potential, you live with his errors. Forget the score, watch carefully for glimpses of better ball movement. If the offense dictates tempo when Lin is in the game, we have something. Carmelo still gets cameo appearances at lead guard.
I am really interested in seeing what Lin can do. I would love for MDA to move TD to the 2 spot and let Lin and Biddy run the point for the majority of the game.
ActionJackson wrote:Panos wrote:I got my Masters at a pretty damn good school and get my ass handed to me by high school drop outs every time I step on the playground. You guys are hilarious.
I can back up Panos on this one, since I gave him the bizness on the court the last time we be playin Ball & I just got my GDE certifcate last summer 
I got next.....Coming from a solid technical school with a Masters! Just don't let the scholar awards fool you, my crossover and jumper is nasty!
Lin is insurance at this point. Its a try out.
The question is he willing and are we able to send him to the Dleague and give him a look for back up status next year?
If he is perusing the dream of being an NBA starter then he will want to be cut than be sent down.
Is this dude NBA caliber? At some point do you end the dream and settle on a really good career in Europe? Can an American of Asian decent be accepted in China?
It gets a little frustrating to see guys come open or cutting and TD doesn't see them or see's them to late. I don't think at this point that will ever improve. He is just not an orchestrator.... TD do what TD do, it's just not running an offense.
CrushAlot wrote:MSG3 wrote:loweyecue wrote:Knicksfan wrote:loweyecue wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Are people still acting like Lin will be here long-term?Man, every single guy we sign we make a big deal about. The guy will end up being the 15th man at the end of the season (if we're lucky enough to have everyone healthy) and people are acting like he's the savior at PG.
I like the guy too but he's nothing more than a bench player on a deep team.
I admit I am worried about our PG situation and the injury risk. I would like to see us kepp him or a third string PG as insurance. Maybe we waive Toney Douglas if Lin proves himself better, IDK. I am no expert on contracts etc. But TD isn't getting it done (same as all year last year).
Waiving TD if Lin proves himself better? Hold on, folks, this is getting insane.
TD may not be a point guard and may still need to improve in certain areas, but he is still a very talented player that brings a lot to the table both offensively and defensively. His best use is coming off the bench as instant offense, but until we get a better starting PG (waiting for Baron), he is our starter at 1.
Lin is a young undrafted PG that has been waived by a few teams already. Yeah, its been because they need the roster spot, but still. He hasn't even suited up for NY and now he will make TD expendable? Geez, guys, come back to earth.
I hope Lin turns out to be a good signing and makes it hard to waive him, but don't make it look like its the second coming of Nash.
TD is a two bit role player on a bad team it doesnt take an act of god to make him expendable. He had a starting job because of injuty or inability to get better players he is not the key to a championship!
We got Novak to be our instant offense of the bench and he shoots far superior percentage than TD. I think Shumpert will be a much better defensive player than TD so all the roles TD could fill, we seem to have a better player on the roster. His only value is as a third string PG (he sucks) and as the third scoring option (soon to be taken over by Baron and to lesser extent by Novak). I don't think we can cut him now, but if those guys pan out, then TD is definitely someon we can cut or trade whatever is easier.
I think TD is getting beat on a bit too much. The guy is not a PG. I think every one is in agreement. But to call him a 2 bit player is just very wrong. He shoots the 3 at a very good clip, defends and can finish at the rim. His mid range is good also. Players like this are extremely valuable as 6th and 7th men. He's not someon you just jettison. Once he's coming off the bench people will remember why he's valuable.
To want to write him off because Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak are on the roster is absurd.
+1. Douglas went up against the best defensive point in the NBA in the first game of the season and guys want to waive him to make room for waiver fodder. I like Novak and Lin. They are good guys to pick up for the end of the bench and maybe they work out but talking about waiving Douglas for these guys is crazy. Don't let this forum turn into realgm where guys are saying Novak is as good as Gallo.
I think you guys are taking this out of context. I didnt say we should waive him now I said we should see if the other role players fit their roles better than TD does on the team. IF that happens and it's big if, then yes he becomes expendable and can be used as trade bait if there is a market for him.
I think you have a lot invested in his success emotionally and from a fan POV that is how it should be. But in the end we make the decision based on what the team needs not based in what we hope he may one day become especially when he hasn't shown any real progress.
If you think his value is astronomically higher than Lin etc, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't see it that way and if Lin gets minutes under MDA I sure he will produce equivalent stats. TD is and probably will remain a third tier role player.
So much is made if his defense then he gets a pass for not being able to defend Rondo. Well we are headed to the playoffs where our opponents will likely have top tier PGs and if he can't defend against them really what good is he doing us? Offensively he has good shooting anility but it also comes with ridiculously poor decision making. I really do t see what great value he adds to the team right now.
Someone said we shouldn't transpose our roster problems in to TD and that's just ridiculous. This is sports team and the success of the team and it's roster needs will take precedence over whatever emotional baggage fans carry about their role players.
I hated losing Gallo/Felton etc but I was vocal on my support of the trade still am, and will always be. Same with TD if there is a better player to be had by cutting or trading you that's the only consideration.
If and when Lin gets enough playing time, his game will speak for himself. I don't know why people are holding onto douglas like he's not a trading chip. Undersized 2 guards do not last long in the NBA unless you bring something special. I'm sorry, douglas was my man out of college, but honestly he hasn't lived up to expectations.
Lin is already a better pg, and he hasn't played one game yet. Novak is a better shooter. Shump is a better defender. So what need does TD fill?
Am I saying cut TD today, NO. But the pressure is clearly on TD right now to show his value. Shooting more than amari and making less shots, with low assist and guarding a pg that continues to abuse you (so far deron williams and rondo) is not a good start.
TD and his fans...its time to show your value.
Nalod wrote:Lin is insurance at this point. Its a try out.The question is he willing and are we able to send him to the Dleague and give him a look for back up status next year?
If he is perusing the dream of being an NBA starter then he will want to be cut than be sent down.
Is this dude NBA caliber? At some point do you end the dream and settle on a really good career in Europe? Can an American of Asian decent be accepted in China?
I do believe he is Taiwanese, and I'm not bright enough to know that island's relationship to China.
It's true Douglas is a trading chip. Knicks traded better players than TD; Chandler, Gallinari are two examples; why wouldn't TD be traded if a good deal comes up.
loweyecue wrote:CrushAlot wrote:MSG3 wrote:loweyecue wrote:Knicksfan wrote:loweyecue wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Are people still acting like Lin will be here long-term?Man, every single guy we sign we make a big deal about. The guy will end up being the 15th man at the end of the season (if we're lucky enough to have everyone healthy) and people are acting like he's the savior at PG.
I like the guy too but he's nothing more than a bench player on a deep team.
I admit I am worried about our PG situation and the injury risk. I would like to see us kepp him or a third string PG as insurance. Maybe we waive Toney Douglas if Lin proves himself better, IDK. I am no expert on contracts etc. But TD isn't getting it done (same as all year last year).
Waiving TD if Lin proves himself better? Hold on, folks, this is getting insane.
TD may not be a point guard and may still need to improve in certain areas, but he is still a very talented player that brings a lot to the table both offensively and defensively. His best use is coming off the bench as instant offense, but until we get a better starting PG (waiting for Baron), he is our starter at 1.
Lin is a young undrafted PG that has been waived by a few teams already. Yeah, its been because they need the roster spot, but still. He hasn't even suited up for NY and now he will make TD expendable? Geez, guys, come back to earth.
I hope Lin turns out to be a good signing and makes it hard to waive him, but don't make it look like its the second coming of Nash.
TD is a two bit role player on a bad team it doesnt take an act of god to make him expendable. He had a starting job because of injuty or inability to get better players he is not the key to a championship!
We got Novak to be our instant offense of the bench and he shoots far superior percentage than TD. I think Shumpert will be a much better defensive player than TD so all the roles TD could fill, we seem to have a better player on the roster. His only value is as a third string PG (he sucks) and as the third scoring option (soon to be taken over by Baron and to lesser extent by Novak). I don't think we can cut him now, but if those guys pan out, then TD is definitely someon we can cut or trade whatever is easier.
I think TD is getting beat on a bit too much. The guy is not a PG. I think every one is in agreement. But to call him a 2 bit player is just very wrong. He shoots the 3 at a very good clip, defends and can finish at the rim. His mid range is good also. Players like this are extremely valuable as 6th and 7th men. He's not someon you just jettison. Once he's coming off the bench people will remember why he's valuable.
To want to write him off because Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak are on the roster is absurd.
+1. Douglas went up against the best defensive point in the NBA in the first game of the season and guys want to waive him to make room for waiver fodder. I like Novak and Lin. They are good guys to pick up for the end of the bench and maybe they work out but talking about waiving Douglas for these guys is crazy. Don't let this forum turn into realgm where guys are saying Novak is as good as Gallo.
I think you guys are taking this out of context. I didnt say we should waive him now I said we should see if the other role players fit their roles better than TD does on the team. IF that happens and it's big if, then yes he becomes expendable and can be used as trade bait if there is a market for him.
I think you have a lot invested in his success emotionally and from a fan POV that is how it should be. But in the end we make the decision based on what the team needs not based in what we hope he may one day become especially when he hasn't shown any real progress.
If you think his value is astronomically higher than Lin etc, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't see it that way and if Lin gets minutes under MDA I sure he will produce equivalent stats. TD is and probably will remain a third tier role player.
So much is made if his defense then he gets a pass for not being able to defend Rondo. Well we are headed to the playoffs where our opponents will likely have top tier PGs and if he can't defend against them really what good is he doing us? Offensively he has good shooting anility but it also comes with ridiculously poor decision making. I really do t see what great value he adds to the team right now.
Someone said we shouldn't transpose our roster problems in to TD and that's just ridiculous. This is sports team and the success of the team and it's roster needs will take precedence over whatever emotional baggage fans carry about their role players.
I hated losing Gallo/Felton etc but I was vocal on my support of the trade still am, and will always be. Same with TD if there is a better player to be had by cutting or trading you that's the only consideration.
Agree.....
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:It's true Douglas is a trading chip. Knicks traded better players than TD; Chandler, Gallinari are two examples; why wouldn't TD be traded if a good deal comes up.
Unless you can think of an NBA team looking for an undersized shooting guard who does not match up defensively on the NBA level with big talented guards, Toney Douglas is NOT a trading chip.
The difference is that 6'9 Wilson Chandler and 6'10 Danilo Gallinari have multiple, high quality skills.
ActionJackson wrote:Panos wrote:I got my Masters at a pretty damn good school and get my ass handed to me by high school drop outs every time I step on the playground. You guys are hilarious.
I can back up Panos on this one, since I gave him the bizness on the court the last time we be playin Ball & I just got my GDE certifcate last summer
High school drop outs other than you.
I think you could trade Douglas to a team like the Spurs. If you put Douglas in a Jason Terry role, I think he can be above average if he is allowed to focus solely on scoring.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Lin is insurance at this point. Its a try out.The question is he willing and are we able to send him to the Dleague and give him a look for back up status next year?
If he is perusing the dream of being an NBA starter then he will want to be cut than be sent down.
Is this dude NBA caliber? At some point do you end the dream and settle on a really good career in Europe? Can an American of Asian decent be accepted in China?
I do believe he is Taiwanese, and I'm not bright enough to know that island's relationship to China.
Was one country until Mao's Communists drove out the armies of the Chang Kaishek to Taiwan, where they continued on as an independent country, though mainland China claims it as their territory - the One-China Policy.
TheGame wrote:I think you could trade Douglas to a team like the Spurs. If you put Douglas in a Jason Terry role, I think he can be above average if he is allowed to focus solely on scoring.
Really? What would the Spurs be willing to give up for Toney Douglas?
Facts and facts and the fact is that TD is not a PG. However, I will say the I see him being a big part of this team. He can man the ship until Baron & Shump are back in the mix. I love TD coming off the bench as our 6th.
CashMoney wrote:Facts and facts and the fact is that TD is not a PG. However, I will say the I see him being a big part of this team. He can man the ship until Baron & Shump are back in the mix. I love TD coming off the bench as our 6th.
how many years did Billups hear that?
martin wrote:CashMoney wrote:Facts and facts and the fact is that TD is not a PG. However, I will say the I see him being a big part of this team. He can man the ship until Baron & Shump are back in the mix. I love TD coming off the bench as our 6th.
how many years did Billups hear that?
Good point, didn't even think of the comparison. I guess time will tell. I really like TD for this team.
