I agree thou .... Rubio is not a "rookie" as an ex-college player .... he's well experienced and he should nt be included among young new pro player
umbisam wrote:I agree thou .... Rubio is not a "rookie" as an ex-college player .... he's well experienced and he should nt be included among young new pro player
It's his first year in the NBA. It's an NBA award.
Yea, same could be said about Griffin. It was technically his 2nd year last year, but he got hurt in the preseason and missed his entire rookie year. Rubio it's his 3rd year since he's been drafted, but he's never played an NBA regular season game before this year.
more effusive rubio praise, this time from david aldridge. if rubio doesn't win this award, it will be shocking.
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/da...
Rubio's game is sublime. Like all great point guards -- he isn't there, yet, but he's close -- Rubio seems to play among teammates yet float above them at the same time, like he's playing by himself and then snaps to attention. But he feels the game. He doesn't give up his dribble until he's ready. He already has a mastery of the hesitation dribble, textbook bounce passes in traffic, skip passes that wind up right on a shooter's hands. Rubio makes scoring passes, not just passing for the sake of passing, and his teammates must have their heads on a swivel at all times -- " I got hit in the face the other day," Love said. Williams, who also had a +29 plus-minus Sunday playing with Rubio, should start Rubio's car every morning; like Kidd, like Nash, Rubio is gonna get guys paid.
also, blake griffin won ROY after missing his real first season due to injury - this despite sitting in on team practices for a year and learning and adapting to the culture of the nba... and even playing in a few pre-season games before his injury. that seems a little more dubious than rubio winning the award in his first year in the league.
Man this Rubio thing is only 8 games in. Iman is only 4 games played. There is still a lot of season left. We haven't even seen Iman comfortable yet. He just got back from injury and just got into the starting lineup. For a guy that literally just got back he's been extremely impactful and it's tangible.
Yes Rubio is a preternatural passer, but no one has gotten a chance to really see what Iman can do and appreciate his game. Like I said, once we get to all those national games if Iman plays well people will start to take more notice of him. Neither Rubio or Iman has been thru anything like this schedule, so we'll see how both hold up.
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:loweyecue wrote:Kyrie Irving
Make that TWO votes for Kyrie Irving as ROY.
Rubio 2nd
Shump 3rd
Brooks 4th
Yeah, if you're basing the award off actual production, It's got to be Irving. It's still early though and who knows what will happen when rookies hit the wall or guys who aren't playing right now start getting some burn.
If Rubio gets his average to 10 pts and 10 asts with close to .500 fg percentage and Twolves playing .500 ball, there's no way they give this award to Kyrie Irving.
Still WAY too early to declare a winner. Rubio has the early excitement with his spectacular passing. We'll see how it looks in another month or so. Iman just got back and into the mix.
2011-12 StatisticsRubio Games 8 PPG 9.9 RPG 3.90 APG 7.6 STL 1.1 EFF + 14.88
Iman Games 4 PPG 12.5 RPG 3.50 APG 3.5 STL 2.0 EFF + 13.25
Kyrie games 8 PPG 15.0 RPG 3.90 APG 5.1 STL 0.6 EFF + 14.75
ChuckBuck wrote:If Rubio gets his average to 10 pts and 10 asts with close to .500 fg percentage and Twolves playing .500 ball, there's no way they give this award to Kyrie Irving.
Irving already has the Cavs playing at .500 ball.
nixluva wrote:Still WAY too early to declare a winner. Rubio has the early excitement with his spectacular passing. We'll see how it looks in another month or so. Iman just got back and into the mix.2011-12 StatisticsRubio Games 8 PPG 9.9 RPG 3.90 APG 7.6 STL 1.1 EFF + 14.88
Iman Games 4 PPG 12.5 RPG 3.50 APG 3.5 STL 2.0 EFF + 13.25
Kyrie games 8 PPG 15.0 RPG 3.90 APG 5.1 STL 0.6 EFF + 14.75
It is early, but at the same time it seems Shumpert won't get to pad his stats as much as the others. Love me some Shumps, but Irving will get more scoring opportunities on a lottery Cavs team, and Rubio will get more assists on a young, exciting borderline .500 team. So Shumpert's stats will fall underneath those 2 in those 2 major categories, but at the end of the day, he'll probably be the only one out of those rookies making highlights in the playoffs, so fair trade.
nixluva wrote:Man this Rubio thing is only 8 games in. Iman is only 4 games played. There is still a lot of season left. We haven't even seen Iman comfortable yet. He just got back from injury and just got into the starting lineup. For a guy that literally just got back he's been extremely impactful and it's tangible. Yes Rubio is a preternatural passer, but no one has gotten a chance to really see what Iman can do and appreciate his game. Like I said, once we get to all those national games if Iman plays well people will start to take more notice of him. Neither Rubio or Iman has been thru anything like this schedule, so we'll see how both hold up.
so Rubio has played twice as many games as Shumpert, but it's too early to tell about Rubio and you're already convinced Shumpert is the answer.
that group of "no one" having gotten a chance to see what Shumpert can do includes you and me and everyone here. so let's sit back and enjoy the kid. for you to project him to be better than Rubio is a huge stretch given what little you've seen of shumpert in a knicks uniform. people here who are touting Rubio, I'm guessing, have been following him for years and saw him in the 2008 olympics where he gave the US a lot of trouble at age 18. the sample size for rubio is far larger at this point. that's not taking anything away from shump, but if you're saying people are just dazzled by rubio because they haven't seen that much of him, i'm saying most people have seen much more of rubio. shump's body of work isn't big at all yet. i think he can be good, but this ROY talk needs to chill.
i'm just saying if anyone is predicting or hoping for a chance for shump to win ROY, he's got an uphill battle ahead of him as Rubio is the clear frontrunner.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Man this Rubio thing is only 8 games in. Iman is only 4 games played. There is still a lot of season left. We haven't even seen Iman comfortable yet. He just got back from injury and just got into the starting lineup. For a guy that literally just got back he's been extremely impactful and it's tangible. Yes Rubio is a preternatural passer, but no one has gotten a chance to really see what Iman can do and appreciate his game. Like I said, once we get to all those national games if Iman plays well people will start to take more notice of him. Neither Rubio or Iman has been thru anything like this schedule, so we'll see how both hold up.
so Rubio has played twice as many games as Shumpert, but it's too early to tell about Rubio and you're already convinced Shumpert is the answer.
that group of "no one" having gotten a chance to see what Shumpert can do includes you and me and everyone here. so let's sit back and enjoy the kid. for you to project him to be better than Rubio is a huge stretch given what little you've seen of shumpert in a knicks uniform. people here who are touting Rubio, I'm guessing, have been following him for years and saw him in the 2008 olympics where he gave the US a lot of trouble at age 18. the sample size for rubio is far larger at this point. that's not taking anything away from shump, but if you're saying people are just dazzled by rubio because they haven't seen that much of him, i'm saying most people have seen much more of rubio. shump's body of work isn't big at all yet. i think he can be good, but this ROY talk needs to chill.
i'm just saying if anyone is predicting or hoping for a chance for shump to win ROY, he's got an uphill battle ahead of him as Rubio is the clear frontrunner.
Well Yeah I felt good about Shump from before the season. Why is that so strange? I see your bias already. You think Iman doesn't have the pedigree and that a 17th pick couldn't possibly be a legit ROY candidate. Iman has a wealth of talent and he also has a few things he needs to improve on like most rookies, but for you not to recognize how good he's looked already is beyond me. He hasn't had the Golden Child tag that Rubio has had for years. Iman has been doubted and had to fight and work to be taken seriously as a 1st rd prospect.
You don't really believe in Iman, that's fine. I do believe in the kid. Time will tell, but don't tell me he's far off cuz he's not.
It's going to be hard for Shump to win. It all depends on whether Minnesota/Cleveland finish with good records. If their teams suck amd the Knicks thrive then Shump has a chance stats being equal.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Man this Rubio thing is only 8 games in. Iman is only 4 games played. There is still a lot of season left. We haven't even seen Iman comfortable yet. He just got back from injury and just got into the starting lineup. For a guy that literally just got back he's been extremely impactful and it's tangible. Yes Rubio is a preternatural passer, but no one has gotten a chance to really see what Iman can do and appreciate his game. Like I said, once we get to all those national games if Iman plays well people will start to take more notice of him. Neither Rubio or Iman has been thru anything like this schedule, so we'll see how both hold up.
so Rubio has played twice as many games as Shumpert, but it's too early to tell about Rubio and you're already convinced Shumpert is the answer.
that group of "no one" having gotten a chance to see what Shumpert can do includes you and me and everyone here. so let's sit back and enjoy the kid. for you to project him to be better than Rubio is a huge stretch given what little you've seen of shumpert in a knicks uniform. people here who are touting Rubio, I'm guessing, have been following him for years and saw him in the 2008 olympics where he gave the US a lot of trouble at age 18. the sample size for rubio is far larger at this point. that's not taking anything away from shump, but if you're saying people are just dazzled by rubio because they haven't seen that much of him, i'm saying most people have seen much more of rubio. shump's body of work isn't big at all yet. i think he can be good, but this ROY talk needs to chill.
i'm just saying if anyone is predicting or hoping for a chance for shump to win ROY, he's got an uphill battle ahead of him as Rubio is the clear frontrunner.
Well Yeah I felt good about Shump from before the season. Why is that so strange? I see your bias already. You think Iman doesn't have the pedigree and that a 17th pick couldn't possibly be a legit ROY candidate. Iman has a wealth of talent and he also has a few things he needs to improve on like most rookies, but for you not to recognize how good he's looked already is beyond me. He hasn't had the Golden Child tag that Rubio has had for years. Iman has been doubted and had to fight and work to be taken seriously as a 1st rd prospect.
You don't really believe in Iman, that's fine. I do believe in the kid. Time will tell, but don't tell me he's far off cuz he's not.
see, this is where you're completely blinded and biased. i've been one of shumpert's biggest supporters on this board from day one, having actually seen him play in college. i started the sprewell comparisons on this board.
i have no bias against shumpert. i love the kid and think he'll be a great player and that he's already a very good one.
i also have no bias against rubio. you seem to take any compliment to a player on another team as a slam against the knicks. that's not what this is. i'm purely reporting a little reality to your knicks only cave. rubio is the favorite to win rookie of the year and he's received non-stop praise for his excellent play this year. furthermore, my saying i don't think iman shumpert will win rookie of the year does not mean i don't think he's a great young player. that's ridiculous. that's like me saying i don't think melo will win MVP so i think he sucks. well, i don't think melo will win MVP, but i think he's played great this year. wild, huh?
end transmission.
I think in an optimistic scenario (assuming a healthy Carmelo + Amare), we could see Shumpert averaging:
34mpg, 16ppg, 5apg, 4.5rpg, 2+spg, 45%fg, 37%3pt.
I don't think those #s would be good enough to win ROY this season. I can picture Irving and Rubio putting in some sick numbers. Irving already has the green light to do whatever he wants and doesn't have any bonafide scorers on the team - meaning he could/should be pushing 18ppg+, leading the team in assists, and picking up a lot of rebounds.
Rubio has some impressive assist numbers in the short term, with pretty nice shooting numbers and rebound numbers. Statistically he's Jose Calderon with steals. He might become Jason Kidd with more refined shooting or better shot selection!
Beyond those 3:
I'm not really clear on what Brandon Knight is - he's also been handed the starting keys at guard, giving him high scoring/assist potential, particularly with the established (and currently back with his shooting mojo) Ben Gordon with him in the backcourt.
With DJ Augustin putting up career numbers at PG on Charlotte, I don't know if Kemba Walker will have the opportunity to learn on the job as a PG. This year at least he'll have to deal with limited minutes overall, unless Gerald Henderson goes down, forcing them to start a super small backcourt - giving them a little bit of the Golden State Warriors east (Curry/Ellis) flavor, except smaller. Kemba's had some great stretches, but I have doubts he'll be able to fulfill his Tim Hardaway-like destiny, not this year anyway.
I think one area of the game that could help Iman is his penetration. The more he gets inside and gets fouled it could really boost his numbers. He's only started 1 game so I think we haven't seen the best of him yet.
Drafting Shumpert really saved the Knicks because there was nothing left after the Melo trade. Smart drafting is a big key in every sport.
gunsnewing wrote:Drafting Shumpert really saved the Knicks because there was nothing left after the Melo trade. Smart drafting is a big key in every sport.
speaking of which, how are Jordan Hill and Brandon Jennings doing these days?
I think when considering rookie of the year we need to define what a rookie is. If a guy is say 25 and playing professionally overseas for years before coming to the NBA, I think clearly that is not a rookie. But, it is a little bit grayer when it comes to a young Rubio... who has played professionally overseas though too. I just don't think it's fair when you consider the level of competition. I mean those teams over there can play a good game against an NBA team, and come to think of it, Rubio did.
Rubio is the best "Rookie" this year hands down and I love watching the kid. But just being fare trying to see if he really is a rookie???
martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Drafting Shumpert really saved the Knicks because there was nothing left after the Melo trade. Smart drafting is a big key in every sport.
speaking of which, how are Jordan Hill and Brandon Jennings doing these days?
Jordan Hill
Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2011-12 24 HOU NBA 8 7 18.6 2.1 4.0 .531 0.0 0.0 0.8 1.1 .667 1.5 4.0 5.5 0.6 0.3 0.6 1.1 2.8 5.0
Career NBA 127 18 14.9 2.3 4.6 .494 0.0 0.0 .000 0.9 1.3 .691 1.7 2.4 4.1 0.4 0.2 0.6 0.8 2.1 5.4
Brandon Jennings
Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2011-12 22 MIL NBA 8 8 37.9 6.9 17.0 .404 1.6 5.9 .277 2.8 3.6 .759 0.9 2.5 3.4 5.4 1.9 0.1 2.5 1.5 18.1
Career NBA 153 151 33.6 5.7 14.9 .381 1.7 4.8 .347 2.9 3.6 .810 0.6 2.9 3.5 5.3 1.4 0.3 2.4 2.2 15.9
Looks like Jennings turned out to be solid at 18 pts and 5 asts per game. Jordan Hill was just a terrible pick in so many ways...we could've had a starting PG already (Jennings, Holiday, Lawson, Teague, Maynor, Collison). Oh well Hindsight is 20/20, and Baron Davis is roughly a month away
ChuckBuck wrote:martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Drafting Shumpert really saved the Knicks because there was nothing left after the Melo trade. Smart drafting is a big key in every sport.
speaking of which, how are Jordan Hill and Brandon Jennings doing these days?
Jordan Hill
Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2011-12 24 HOU NBA 8 7 18.6 2.1 4.0 .531 0.0 0.0 0.8 1.1 .667 1.5 4.0 5.5 0.6 0.3 0.6 1.1 2.8 5.0
Career NBA 127 18 14.9 2.3 4.6 .494 0.0 0.0 .000 0.9 1.3 .691 1.7 2.4 4.1 0.4 0.2 0.6 0.8 2.1 5.4
Brandon Jennings
Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2011-12 22 MIL NBA 8 8 37.9 6.9 17.0 .404 1.6 5.9 .277 2.8 3.6 .759 0.9 2.5 3.4 5.4 1.9 0.1 2.5 1.5 18.1
Career NBA 153 151 33.6 5.7 14.9 .381 1.7 4.8 .347 2.9 3.6 .810 0.6 2.9 3.5 5.3 1.4 0.3 2.4 2.2 15.9
Looks like Jennings turned out to be solid at 18 pts and 5 asts per game. Jordan Hill was just a terrible pick in so many ways...we could've had a starting PG already (Jennings, Holiday, Lawson, Teague, Maynor, Collison). Oh well Hindsight is 20/20, and Baron Davis is roughly a month away
Don't say I didn't warn the UK family. I played against Jordan Hill in Tucson AZ, and we had to play zone during a pickup game because of their height. I was the low guy in that zone, and had to matchup with him most of the game. He doesn't have a low center of gravity, so I was able to push him around. But heres the glarrying surprise about this story.....I'm barely 6'0 tall 192 lbs. Yes, I'm one of the best defenders in most gyms, but he had almost a foot on me, and looked rather average. I didn't have a good feeling about him ever since. I was hoping he was just clowning around, since the knicks picked him up in the draft a month later. It's obvious he was selected too high.
