Ok, Shump for ROY, and if knicks finish in the 3 seed or better he is MVP, and First team all defense!
Fuck it, put him in the HOF!
His input is welcome and needed and shows due to injury and star concentration the lack of our depth.
I don't care if he wins ROY personally, his contributions to the team on D and faciliting on Offense until Baron gets here, is much needed. That said...KEEP DOIN WHAT YOU DOIN SHUMPS!
rubio doubters can check out rubio doing a nice job vs chicago tonight. minnesota down 5pts after 3qtrs. rubio has 11pts 11assists 4reb 3stl thru 3.
crzymdups wrote:rubio doubters can check out rubio doing a nice job vs chicago tonight. minnesota down 5pts after 3qtrs. rubio has 11pts 11assists 4reb 3stl thru 3.
I don't think anyone really doubts Rubio. He's a talented player and he's been great so far. I just don't agree that he's got the ROY all sowed up already. There's a lot of season left to go. He has certain strengths which are evident in his stats. I think the other top Rooks have their own strengths and so it will be a very interesting debate as the year goes along.
Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet
alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet
See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.
Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.
I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.
nixluva wrote:alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet
See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.
Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.
I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.
Rubio is also not a bad defender. Minnesota is one of the higher rated defensive clubs.
Also, the idea that Rubio doesn't do intangible things as well as his tangible contributions seems flawed. Tonight he either scored or assisted on 20 of Minnesota's 23 points in the third quarter. That was very tangible.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet
See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.
Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.
I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.
Rubio is also not a bad defender. Minnesota is one of the higher rated defensive clubs.
Also, the idea that Rubio doesn't do intangible things as well as his tangible contributions seems flawed. Tonight he either scored or assisted on 20 of Minnesota's 23 points in the third quarter. That was very tangible.
I never said Rubio didn't have intangibles. You're putting words in my mouth. I said that his assists are highly visible stats and that's his strength. I don't know about Rubio's defense. I know that he gets steals, but i've never heard much about his Man D and can't say that i've seen him really shut anyone down. My guess is that Rubio is not the defender that Shump is.
I've kept most of my remarks on this subject about Shump and what he's doing. I really haven't gone in depth about Rubio's game except for his stats. I will say that Shump isn't called upon to be a ball dominant guard. Often times he's giving the ball to Melo to be the ball distributor or playmaker. It's just a different style of play, doesn't make what Shump does any less impactful.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet
See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.
Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.
I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.
Rubio is also not a bad defender. Minnesota is one of the higher rated defensive clubs.
Also, the idea that Rubio doesn't do intangible things as well as his tangible contributions seems flawed. Tonight he either scored or assisted on 20 of Minnesota's 23 points in the third quarter. That was very tangible.
I never said Rubio didn't have intangibles. You're putting words in my mouth. I said that his assists are highly visible stats and that's his strength. I don't know about Rubio's defense. I know that he gets steals, but i've never heard much about his Man D and can't say that i've seen him really shut anyone down. My guess is that Rubio is not the defender that Shump is.
I've kept most of my remarks on this subject about Shump and what he's doing. I really haven't gone in depth about Rubio's game except for his stats. I will say that Shump isn't called upon to be a ball dominant guard. Often times he's giving the ball to Melo to be the ball distributor or playmaker. It's just a different style of play, doesn't make what Shump does any less impactful.
Shumpert is great. I think he can be our Rondo - in the sense that he's a young guy who compliments our big three here. You need to fill in the spaces with guys like that. He can be a star and I'm rooting for him.
I just feel Rubio will be ROY. He is a good defender, though not in the class that Shumpert is. But Rubio has four double doubles in points/assists and he hasn't even started yet. Anyway, Rubio being very very good takes nothing away from Shumpert being very good. I think Shumpert can be a top three player from this draft, which at no.17 is an absolute steal.
Shump will have a huge challenge with both Jrue Holiday and Louis Williams of Philly tomorrow. Be interesting to see how he does.
crzymdups wrote:Shump will have a huge challenge with both Jrue Holiday and Louis Williams of Philly tomorrow. Be interesting to see how he does.
I was already thinking about that match up. Shump needs some help with those guys. I wish Toney was playing his old level of D. We could use that guy right now.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Shump will have a huge challenge with both Jrue Holiday and Louis Williams of Philly tomorrow. Be interesting to see how he does.
I was already thinking about that match up. Shump needs some help with those guys. I wish Toney was playing his old level of D. We could use that guy right now.
The shoulder had/has to be a lot worse than anyone realized. Considering that he played on it injured last year, and the slow healing process, I wouldn't be surprised if he had to have surgery again
nixluva wrote:... My guess is that Rubio is not the defender that Shump is.
But on the other hand, who is?
I hope I am not to big of a fanboy if I say that, even at this early stage of Imans career, I can only remember a handful of wing-players in this league who are as good defensivly as Shump.
I watch the NBA since the end 90th and remember Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest in their prime. Lately there is Tony Allen. But thats about it. Gary Payton is long ago, as is Jordan, Pippen and Stockton.
His D is that good, but what strikes me even more, is that he is looking that confident at O. He is always under control, rarely takes a bad shot and keeps the machine running.
No matter if ROY or not, he will be the steal of this draft!
Yeah how many years have we been dying to get a defensive stud in the backcourt. Then on top that Iman can score and pass too! It's gonna be fun watching him develop.
http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/?cid=nba_12_twitter_L
Shump makes the NBA rookie ladder. He's third behind Rubio and Kyrie.
1 Kyrie Irving : Cleveland CavaliersIrving continues to play well and seems to improve with each game. Tuesday night in Utah was no exception. Despite the Cavs' loss, Irving stood out as he showed off an array of moves and finished with 20 points two nights after scoring 21 in Portland two nights earlier. At every stop, he leaves opponents praising his early progress. "He's a good player," Utah's Paul Millsap said after the Jazz's 113-105 win. "He got into the lane and made some plays. He scored, and he made some very good moves to the basket. He's going to be a pretty good player." Going to be? He's already there, Paul.-- Jan. 11 2 Ricky Rubio : Minnesota TimberwolvesThe Wolves' rookie continues to blow me away with his smooth transition to the NBA. The Spanish point guard does it all -- smooth passes, surprisingly accurate jumper, ability to hit the floater -- and has already separated himself as the Wolves' second-best player. He's scored in double-digits in five straight games and easily leads all rookies in assists (7.9 per game) and double-doubles (four). In fact, he's seventh in the league in assists and tied for 15th in double-doubles. After his 13-point, 12-assist, four-steal performance in the Wolves' 111-100 loss to the Bulls, MVP Derrick Rose left impressed. "Rubio played a hell of a game," he said.
-- Jan. 11
3 Iman Shumpert : New York KnicksShumpert returns to The Ladder in a big way, climbing all the way up to No. 3 and looking like a legitimate contender for Rookie of the Year honors. It's still a long shot, especially since Irving and Rubio have won over the media, but check out the numbers: If he qualified, Shumpert would be third in scoring (13.2), fourth in assists (3.6), second in steals (2.2) and first in free throw percentage (90.9).
-- Jan. 11
caveat: i believe Landry Fields was third on the rookie ladder for most of last season.
Over the course of the year i'm expecting a few scoring explosions from Iman. He's got the kind of athletic ability to go off and sooner or later it's gonna happen. He's been under control so far, which is good. The more confident he gets the more he'll expand his game using his superior athletic ability.
A sleeper rookie that has been flashing is Chandler Parsons of Houston. I was hoping NY would have got him in the second to be a Gallo replacement. The guy is playing hard on d and getting rebs. Also scoring pretty well too..
yellowboy90 wrote:A sleeper rookie that has been flashing is Chandler Parsons of Houston. I was hoping NY would have got him in the second to be a Gallo replacement. The guy is playing hard on d and getting rebs. Also scoring pretty well too..
saw him have some good run against the lakers, i think. he did look pretty promising.
crzymdups wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:A sleeper rookie that has been flashing is Chandler Parsons of Houston. I was hoping NY would have got him in the second to be a Gallo replacement. The guy is playing hard on d and getting rebs. Also scoring pretty well too..
saw him have some good run against the lakers, i think. he did look pretty promising.
He put up 20 and 7 last night. He is taking some minutes away from some players which is pretty impressive for a 2nd rounder. To me he looks stronger and more fluid than he was at UF. I just really though he wwould have fit in this system for cheap.
More Rubio fodder - Rubio is THIRD among all Western guards in All-star Voting.
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
A distant third, sure, but Rubio THIRD among West guards in All-Star voting? First rook since immortal J-Kidd whose PASSES were must-see TV
41 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
(note to nixluva: this isn't a slam of iman, merely marveling at the rubio phenomenon.)
crzymdups wrote:More Rubio fodder - Rubio is THIRD among all Western guards in All-star Voting. ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
A distant third, sure, but Rubio THIRD among West guards in All-Star voting? First rook since immortal J-Kidd whose PASSES were must-see TV
41 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
(note to nixluva: this isn't a slam of iman, merely marveling at the rubio phenomenon.)
Rubio has been great. The hype machine started before he even stepped on an NBA court so this isn't that surprising that they'd react like this if he showed he was the real deal. Just remember that Iman is starting from below scratch. No one even thought he was a realistic option for ROY. I believe in the kid and as time goes by more people will come to appreciate how important this kids defense is to the winning this team does. As i've said assists are very flashy and staying in front of your man doesn't have a stat.
