I know I have brought this up before and have been yelled at and chastised but ...
Chandler has been great and I am glad we have him ...
However, was it really worth not saving the amnesty for Amare? I am sure they thought about this as a fallback.
Suppose we kept Billups for a second, this offseason we could have AND CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE amnestied Amare and had billups expiring money.
32 million(ish) per - 28 million?
So I ask ... Is Tyson and Amare worth that? All those pieces that we could have had for 30 million per!!! For all those who argue that we need pieces to win and we gave them all to denver. How many pieces could we have had in this scenario?
Now I love Tyson but he is mostly a one way player and is certainly no Bynum or Howard (though I hate Howard and would not want him). Tyson is not a (max) star!
I know everyone loves Tyson and I am opening up a can of worms but is it so off?
Hindsight yea we should've used it on him and not billups but it doesn't work that way unfortunately. Knicks would've got killed for amnestying a supposedly healthy Amare over Billups who didn't factor into their future plans. But not trading for Chandler and saving it for Amare I don't know. Elite defensive centers are hard to come by.
Amare isn't finished like Rashard Lewis. He just isn't worth 20 million per year.
Guy is eating up our cap and we have a thing team as it is. Would prefer we had Luis Scola and Kevin Martin.
We did the best possible thing with the amnesty. The Knicks have 2 good offensive players- they need to f*cking figure out how to use them at the same time. Circumstances like injuries, the lockout etc. have not given us the opportunity to figure it out- but we've had opportunities. D'Antoni couldn't do it- now Woodson has to make a convincing argument that he can to keep his job.
The haste by Dolan to complete the lopsided Melo trade has costed NYK the amnesty. Not Tyson.
gunsnewing wrote:Hindsight yea we should've used it on him and not billups but it doesn't work that way unfortunately. Knicks would've got killed for amnestying a supposedly healthy Amare over Billups who didn't factor into their future plans. But not trading for Chandler and saving it for Amare I don't know. Elite defensive centers are hard to come by.
Tyson is valuable but at 10-12 Not at 30 million - which is what it ends up being. I could be totally off on my calculations and cap knowledge - I hope someone corrects me if I'm way off.
MozelGovCocktail wrote:The haste by Dolan to complete the lopsided Melo trade has costed NYK the amnesty. Not Tyson.
Liking that move or not it has nothing to do with the Amnesty.
If the knicks knew what they know now about Amare, would they do the same thing all over again (in hindsight)?
which free agents are out there?
also, we keep billups we might never sign lin in the first place.
so, i dunno.
i'm really glad they got tyson.
then again, amar'e is a huge problem in this team's construction at this point. so. sigh.
I think if you can get Tyson you make that move. I don't think the Knicks knew how bad Amare's back injury was because of the lockout. If his knees were giving out then you could say not using the amnesty was a mistake. Tyson is a pretty big chip and a cornerstone. I think even the most conservative gm would have a hard time passing him up. Also, guys like Davis and Smith signed in NY and I would guess that Tyson's presence helped their decision.
Other than game 1, Amare's been scoring at a really efficient clip from the field. He looks like he has quite a bit more explosion. What was the Melo backlash has now turned into Amare backlash. It's neither's fault that they can't play with each other. It's also both of their faults they can't play with each other. Its certainly not one and not the other. They need to lock themselves in a gym with a coach and figure this sh*t out.
CrushAlot wrote:I think if you can get Tyson you make that move. I don't think the Knicks knew how bad Amare's back injury was because of the lockout. If his knees were giving out then you could say not using the amnesty was a mistake. Tyson is a pretty big chip and a cornerstone. I think even the most conservative gm would have a hard time passing him up. Also, guys like Davis and Smith signed in NY and I would guess that Tyson's presence helped their decision.
Davis and Smith are gone and we don't have cap room for them or Novak!
Many of us questioned the safety and sanity of this move back then. They had to know that Amare was a huge risk especially after the Boston series.
It comes down to Chandler now being worth 30 million in cap space. I am sure we could have figured out what to do with 30 million.
VDesai wrote:Other than game 1, Amare's been scoring at a really efficient clip from the field. He looks like he has quite a bit more explosion. What was the Melo backlash has now turned into Amare backlash. It's neither's fault that they can't play with each other. It's also both of their faults they can't play with each other. Its certainly not one and not the other. They need to lock themselves in a gym with a coach and figure this sh*t out.
Though they both are dicks for not playing better together, Melo still looks like he has a sh1t load of talent and can play defense. I don't think Amare has either and like I said many times, if he plays 40 pct of his remaining games on his contract I will be overly shocked.
VDesai wrote:Other than game 1, Amare's been scoring at a really efficient clip from the field. He looks like he has quite a bit more explosion. What was the Melo backlash has now turned into Amare backlash. It's neither's fault that they can't play with each other. It's also both of their faults they can't play with each other. Its certainly not one and not the other. They need to lock themselves in a gym with a coach and figure this sh*t out.
I think part of the problem is not having a PG who can break his defender down. Over the past year the Knicks have had too much variation at he position.
Chandler played like a legit max contract player. People just devalue defense relative to offense. Suppose it was the reverse: he was the best offensive player in the league and a highly efficient defensive player.
Tyson at 13mil per is a bargain for what he gives you on both ends especially defense and leadership. Amare at $20mil+ per for 5yrs is robbery
mrKnickShot wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think if you can get Tyson you make that move. I don't think the Knicks knew how bad Amare's back injury was because of the lockout. If his knees were giving out then you could say not using the amnesty was a mistake. Tyson is a pretty big chip and a cornerstone. I think even the most conservative gm would have a hard time passing him up. Also, guys like Davis and Smith signed in NY and I would guess that Tyson's presence helped their decision.
Davis and Smith are gone and we don't have cap room for them or Novak!
Many of us questioned the safety and sanity of this move back then. They had to know that Amare was a huge risk especially after the Boston series.
It comes down to Chandler now being worth 30 million in cap space. I am sure we could have figured out what to do with 30 million.
I think I questioned it but I am not sure. I really like Tyson. I wouldn't be surprised if Davis comes back. He can sign anywhere for the vet minimum and Cleveland picks up the rest of his salary. I hope that Smith picks up his players option but I agree with you that he is gone after this season.
If we didn't get Chandler, then when and how were we gonna get a player like Chandler? I just don't see it. It was the right move to make. I doubt JR smith chooses to sign here over the clippers if we don't have Chandler- so the keep JR Smith argument to this doesn't really even make sense.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Other than game 1, Amare's been scoring at a really efficient clip from the field. He looks like he has quite a bit more explosion. What was the Melo backlash has now turned into Amare backlash. It's neither's fault that they can't play with each other. It's also both of their faults they can't play with each other. Its certainly not one and not the other. They need to lock themselves in a gym with a coach and figure this sh*t out.
I think part of the problem is not having a PG who can break his defender down. Over the past year the Knicks have had too much variation at he position.
Thats certainly fair but it did not really work with Lin and both of them either. PG for now is their glaring weakness. Chandler and Amare don't really work that great either.
How do you feel about the amnesty? Is there some validity here?
VDesai wrote:
If we didn't get Chandler, then when and how were we gonna get a player like Chandler? I just don't see it. It was the right move to make. I doubt JR smith chooses to sign here over the clippers if we don't have Chandler- so the keep JR Smith argument to this doesn't really even make sense.
huh? Did you mean "If we didn't get Carmelo..."?
mrKnickShot wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think if you can get Tyson you make that move. I don't think the Knicks knew how bad Amare's back injury was because of the lockout. If his knees were giving out then you could say not using the amnesty was a mistake. Tyson is a pretty big chip and a cornerstone. I think even the most conservative gm would have a hard time passing him up. Also, guys like Davis and Smith signed in NY and I would guess that Tyson's presence helped their decision.
Davis and Smith are gone and we don't have cap room for them or Novak!
Many of us questioned the safety and sanity of this move back then. They had to know that Amare was a huge risk especially after the Boston series.
It comes down to Chandler now being worth 30 million in cap space. I am sure we could have figured out what to do with 30 million.
Good god man, you are wrong. You need to stop posting about who he Knicks can or cannot sign, you have missed the dozen thread explaining what the team can and cannot do.
Bonn1997 wrote:Chandler played like a legit max contract player. People just devalue defense relative to offense. Suppose it was the reverse: he was the best offensive player in the league and a highly efficient defensive player.
So is he worth 25-30 million?
HE CAN'T EVEN HIT A SHOT OUTSIDE OF 3 FEET!!
Did you watch Bynum yesterday? Not that even he is worth 25-30 million ...
