fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:And if all the knicks can do is sign, how did we know about the first deal before it was even available???I don't care if Lin goes or not, but he pulled a Dick move on the Knicks.
This is Boozer levels of assholeness Imo.
probably because the Rockets leaked it to see if the Knicks would match, which 100% worked because the Knicks blabbed.Anji... when you saw Ln made a dick move... who is he dicking?
The knicks and the people that want him back.
I don't care where he plays, but if he really wanted to be in New York, he would have at lease giving them a call.
Only reason you blindside your original team with a poison pill like this is if you don't care if they match.
Let's be real about it, I don't care and Lin doesn't either.
Either that or his whole negotiation tactics are completely backwards.
fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:And if all the knicks can do is sign, how did we know about the first deal before it was even available???I don't care if Lin goes or not, but he pulled a Dick move on the Knicks.
This is Boozer levels of assholeness Imo.
probably because the Rockets leaked it to see if the Knicks would match, which 100% worked because the Knicks blabbed.Anji... when you saw Ln made a dick move... who is he dicking?
Lin did pull a d*** move, plain and simple. What other player this offseason negotiated an offer sheet from another team, then when it looked likely their team would match, then went and renegotiated it for even more money? NO ONE! In fact can anyone name another player who pulled a similar move in the past 10 years? Yes he was within his rights, but it's still a d*** move- just because he gets more money out of it, doesn't mean he's exempt from being an a**hole.
The worst thing about losing Lin, is if he hadn't done this in such an underhand way (oh wait til the Knicks have made all their roster moves and then renegotiate in secret to maximise the potential damage- if Felton wasn't around we would be in fully fledged disaster mode- we'd only have Kidd at PG and no money or options!), and he really wanted to go to Houston, we could have signed and traded him for either Lowry, or Dragic.
He stuck two fingers up at the team that gave him his big break, in order to cosey up to the team that cut him. He made an extra $5mil out of it, but that doesn't make it okay. I really get why Dolan wants him gone, but at the same time you can't cut your nose off to spite your face- we'd suffer for it too much.
Anji wrote:fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:And if all the knicks can do is sign, how did we know about the first deal before it was even available???I don't care if Lin goes or not, but he pulled a Dick move on the Knicks.
This is Boozer levels of assholeness Imo.
probably because the Rockets leaked it to see if the Knicks would match, which 100% worked because the Knicks blabbed.Anji... when you saw Ln made a dick move... who is he dicking?
The knicks and the people that want him back.
I don't care where he plays, but if he really wanted to be in New York, he would have at lease giving them a call.
Only reason you blindside your original team with a poison pill like this is if you don't care if they match.
Let's be real about it, I don't care and Lin doesn't either.
Either that or his whole negotiation tactics are completely backwards.
and what have those people done since Lin was a FA? tried to replace him with Steve Nash.
Lets be real indeed. Your employer has not offered you a contract and has publicly tried to replace you. Meanwhile the Rockets actually want Lin to run their team. The Knicks have courted Nash, and signed 3 veterans that play the same position you do.
Putting this on Lin is simply not using your brain
smackeddog wrote:fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:And if all the knicks can do is sign, how did we know about the first deal before it was even available???I don't care if Lin goes or not, but he pulled a Dick move on the Knicks.
This is Boozer levels of assholeness Imo.
probably because the Rockets leaked it to see if the Knicks would match, which 100% worked because the Knicks blabbed.Anji... when you saw Ln made a dick move... who is he dicking?
Lin did pull a d*** move, plain and simple. What other player this offseason negotiated an offer sheet from another team, then when it looked likely their team would match, then went and renegotiated it for even more money? NO ONE! In fact can anyone name another player who pulled a similar move in the past 10 years? Yes he was within his rights, but it's still a d*** move- just because he gets more money out of it, doesn't mean he's exempt from being an a**hole.
The worst thing about losing Lin, is if he hadn't done this in such an underhand way (oh wait til the Knicks have made all their roster moves and then renegotiate in secret to maximise the potential damage- if Felton wasn't around we would be in fully fledged disaster mode- we'd only have Kidd at PG and no money or options!), and he really wanted to go to Houston, we could have signed and traded him for either Lowry, or Dragic.
He stuck two fingers up at the team that gave him his big break, in order to cosey up to the team that cut him. He made an extra $5mil out of it, but that doesn't make it okay. I really get why Dolan wants him gone, but at the same time you can't cut your nose off to spite your face- we'd suffer for it too much.
no player, you know why? ITS NOT UP TO THE PLAYER.
Your judgement is nuts. NUTS.
Your right.
Lin: Dear Knicks. Despite trying to replace me publicly with Steve Nash and despite signing 3 veterans to the position I also play I just wanted to let you know that the Rockets really really want ME to run their team. Please let me know what offer you will match so Im not being paid less then my value on the open market.
Would that be more to your liking?
fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.
Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
A little thing called "Etiquette" 
Never trust those Harvard economics majors, they'll do you dirty!
joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
but how is Lin dicking the Knicks? They have NO ROLE in this process. This is the Rockets courting Lin to be their starting PG and potential face of the franchise. The Knicks have nothing to do with that.
MSG is ubiquitious in all things "we will match this offer"
Rockets come back with a new deal because they want Lin. What is Lin supposed to do? What would ANYONE do?
fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
but how is Lin dicking the Knicks? They have NO ROLE in this process. This is the Rockets courting Lin to be their starting PG and potential face of the franchise. The Knicks have nothing to do with that.MSG is ubiquitious in all things "we will match this offer"
Rockets come back with a new deal because they want Lin. What is Lin supposed to do? What would ANYONE do?
Here lies the difference of opinion on Lin's motives. The Knicks do have a part in this. This whole thing has affected the Knicks past Lin. Maybe they want to keep Lin and based on the other offer they made certain moves (ie trading so much for Camby) they don't make if they know the offer changed.
If Lin really wants to be a Rocket, say it. I think a major problem here is his high wire act to salvage his brand. You want out you want out. Be a man and own up. Don't say you want to be here when your actions dictate otherwise.
ChuckBuck wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
A little thing called "Etiquette"
Never trust those Harvard economics majors, they'll do you dirty!
You are asking for etiquette in NBA? Really?
In NBA, playing dirty is not okay if it's being done to you not if you're the one doing it.
Get real.
blackisblack wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
A little thing called "Etiquette"
Never trust those Harvard economics majors, they'll do you dirty!
You are asking for etiquette in NBA? Really?
In NBA, playing dirty is not okay if it's being done to you not if you're the one doing it.
Get real.
So you acknowledged Lin played dirty...NICE!
joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
but how is Lin dicking the Knicks? They have NO ROLE in this process. This is the Rockets courting Lin to be their starting PG and potential face of the franchise. The Knicks have nothing to do with that.MSG is ubiquitious in all things "we will match this offer"
Rockets come back with a new deal because they want Lin. What is Lin supposed to do? What would ANYONE do?
Here lies the difference of opinion on Lin's motives. The Knicks do have a part in this. This whole thing has affected the Knicks past Lin. Maybe they want to keep Lin and based on the other offer they made certain moves (ie trading so much for Camby) they don't make if they know the offer changed.
If Lin really wants to be a Rocket, say it. I think a major problem here is his high wire act to salvage his brand. You want out you want out. Be a man and own up. Don't say you want to be here when your actions dictate otherwise.
why so black and white? Camby joined the Knicks vs. the Heat because he loved NY and the money was better.
Lin had a great experience in NY last year. You dont think he would like to be back? But you have to be WANTED back. So when your former team signs 3 PGs and publicly courts Nash you do whats best for you, and find out where your wanted. Lin did that. He owes the Knicks nothing.
Dont people understand the Rockets want him?
fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:fishmike wrote:you guys hating on Lin for getting more money are highlarious.Knicks publicly court Steve Nash
Knicks publicly say they will match any offer for Lin
The Knicks have c0cked this up.
But yes.. lets blame Lin for the Rockets (who need a PG) offering him a good contract.
Fish, its not about the money. It's about how he went about in getting that money that people don't like. I bet if this was the original offer to begin with and there was no renegotiation there is minimal to no backlash and the offer would have already been matched.
the renegotiation IS THE KNICKS FAULT.If Woody and everyone else didnt dance around saying we will match we will match then it WOULD have been the last offer.
Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets actually want Lin? Has it occured to anyone that the Rockets, who traded their starting PG watched Lin galvanize his teammates? Hit clutch shots? Lin has intangibles.. the Rockets see that and want him to run their team.
If the 2nd offer is not palpable for Knick fans blame MSG, NOT Jeremy Lin
I'll agree the Knicks should have shut up. But I ask this. Many many many times have we seen teams of restricted free agents say we are matching any offer (didn't the Grizzlies do it just last year wth Gasol?) How many times have we seen verbal commitments renegotiated?
why is this on Lin? Lin has ZERO control over what he makes. This is the Rockets, who WANT THIS PLAYER.If your the Rockets, you just traded your starting PG and your high on Lin how do sign him? You offer him a big contract. If the Knicks says "no prob, we will match." do you giveup? No... you look at options to get your guy.
Kind of like when Melo forced us to trade all our players and picks for him, and give him more money than Lebron and Wade makes.
Its just business and people seem to love that guy ok. Whats the difference?
Couple points. The Rockets severely messed. I never would have traded Lowery before knowing I had Lin for sure. That was an amateurs move, imo. They put themselves in a bad situation. Regarding him running the team. Morey is a sabermetrics guy, right? His sabermetrics are what deemed Lin the most expendable PG last year, right? Now all of a sudden he is willing to purge his whole back court to get the guy his own system said wasn't good enough? What changed? His saber metric value shouldn't have because it isn't based on playing right but measuring variables.
They don't WANT Lin, Fish. They NEED him. They purged their roster for Dwight. They let the happy PG they had walk and then started chasing the replacement for the pissed off guy not even knowing if they were gonna get him and have to stick with the pissed off guy so they trade him too!
I'll be honest about Melo. I was not a fan of how he got here at all. But the difference between him and Lin. He was an established star forcing his way here. And he was pretty up front about what was going on. Lin is forcing his way out of here possibly, using the back door, seemingly lying on the way out.
your facts are right but your perspective is wrong I think.Both the Knicks AND the Rockets need Lin.
The Knicks NEED a great ball distributor. Amare is better when fed. Once he and Felton got adjusted they were both better. Melo without a PG holds the ball and we go into Woody's iso-joe offense. Thats just fine in Jan but that doesnt win in the playoffs. Thats why the Knicks wanted Nash.
Both the Knicks (by shouting to the world they would match when they had no reason to) and the Rockets by trading Lowry have screwed themselves.
Again.. how is any of this Lin's fault?
Lin playing MSG's game. MSG tried to get the best they could... Nash. Now Lin is on the open market and wants to go where he's wanted the most. But some here consider that a dick move
The dick move, in my eyes, depends on what report you read. If Houston decided to renegotiate and Lin came back and signed it, then let the Knicks be caught off guard with the offer it is messed up. IF he already went back once and told them(which resulted in Houston upping the offer) why not do it again?
IF Lin/his agent figured to use the Knicks matching as leverage for a better deal, while I guess legal (not sure how the CBA would rule this)it is still just wrong to do. Also playing this Pollyanna who me Huckleberry Lin naive act he got going on is wearing thin on me.
but how is Lin dicking the Knicks? They have NO ROLE in this process. This is the Rockets courting Lin to be their starting PG and potential face of the franchise. The Knicks have nothing to do with that.MSG is ubiquitious in all things "we will match this offer"
Rockets come back with a new deal because they want Lin. What is Lin supposed to do? What would ANYONE do?
Here lies the difference of opinion on Lin's motives. The Knicks do have a part in this. This whole thing has affected the Knicks past Lin. Maybe they want too keep Lin and based on the other offer they made certain moves (ie trading so much for Camby) they don't make if they know the offer changed.
If Lin really wants to be a Rocket, say it. I think a major problem here is his high wire act to salvage his brand. You want out you want out. Bea man and own up. Don't say you want to be here when your actions dictate otherwise.
why so black and white? Camby joined the Knicks vs. the Heat because he loved NY and the money was better.Lin had a great experience in NY last year. You dont think he would like to be back? But you have to be WANTED back. So when your former team signs 3 PGs and publicly courts Nash you do whats best for you, and find out where your wanted. Lin did that. He owes the Knicks nothing.
Dont people understand the Rockets want him?
This isn't black and white this is about 1000 shades of grey. The reason I bought up Camby was not as a parallel but as an example of a move that may not have been made if this current offer sheet was the original one.
I am not saying Lin OWES the Knicks anything. But if he went back to NY with the first offer and then rengotiated why not go back and let the Knicks know. You don't and it seems like you leveraged them. If he so wants to go to Houston just say so.
Fish you are pretty adamant about it being OK for Lin to go for his but you are criticizing the team for going after Nash. The team went after Nash to go for its own. Jeremy Lin is not Nash. And this is coming from someone who didn't want Nash.
Joe... Im not criticizing Knicks for going after Nash at all. But there is cause and effect. By going after Nash publicly the cause is good (bring in best PG available) but the effect is you have sent a clear message to Lin.
Also you said "But if he (Lin) went back to NY with the first offer and then rengotiated why not go back and let the Knicks know. "
I dont think Lin did that at all, either his camp (agents) or the Rockets did. Based on whats happened my guess is it was the Rockets. I think they really want him and really wanted to know if the Knicks would match. The Knicks (good souls they are) publicly said to a man they would match. Kinda dumb making your bet before the chips are on the table no? But they did and here we are.
If the Knicks kept their mouths shut they would have matched the first offer and we would be done.
All Woody had to say (along w/ rest of MSG) when they heard about first offer was say "wow, there is a nice market for Jeremy. We are in a tough spot with our current roster and will really have to look at whats best for the team."
At least PLAY cat and mouse. MSG didnt bother and its either going to cost them an extra $10mm or so OR their best prospect and starting PG.
Mistake on MSG, no Lin.
He didn't comment on what another player makes, he commented on the way the contract was structured.
fishmike wrote:Joe... Im not criticizing Knicks for going after Nash at all. But there is cause and effect. By going after Nash publicly the cause is good (bring in best PG available) but the effect is you have sent a clear message to Lin.Also you said "But if he (Lin) went back to NY with the first offer and then rengotiated why not go back and let the Knicks know. "
I dont think Lin did that at all, either his camp (agents) or the Rockets did. Based on whats happened my guess is it was the Rockets. I think they really want him and really wanted to know if the Knicks would match. The Knicks (good souls they are) publicly said to a man they would match. Kinda dumb making your bet before the chips are on the table no? But they did and here we are.
If the Knicks kept their mouths shut they would have matched the first offer and we would be done.
All Woody had to say (along w/ rest of MSG) when they heard about first offer was say "wow, there is a nice market for Jeremy. We are in a tough spot with our current roster and will really have to look at whats best for the team."
At least PLAY cat and mouse. MSG didnt bother and its either going to cost them an extra $10mm or so OR their best prospect and starting PG.
Mistake on MSG, no Lin.
While chasing Nash the Knicks made it known they were also gonna match Lin. I digress though...
Saying that the Knicks are responsible for the renegotiation is like King Julian in Madagascar saying "you are responsible for my irresponsibility". Guess what the offer the Rockets initially made was alit better than everyone thought it would be. This offer was fueled by desperation. Really. Getting Lin masks the entirely crappy off season they had.
My thing is you said before the Knicks had no say in this negotiation but at the same time Houston renegotiated as a direct result of NY. I pointed out this negotiation did affect NY. My issue with your thinking is kind of like telling someone "It's not my fault I did it, it's your fault for not stopping me from doing it.". Houston and/or Lin are knee deep in responsibility for this scenario.
MinsHeartsReezy wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:I dont think Melo meant it how it reads. I think its more of a shot at the CBA and poison pill contracts not really the amount Lin is making.
I agree. It also was a shot at the rockets and morey. Hahn clarified melo's statements during today's game. Melo was asked about the offer everyone else is talking about. He probably shouldn't have commented but in context he said nothing wrong.
Exactly! Hahn explained as much during the game. Is it really so shocking the media can take something thing out of context and sensationalize it? 
And frankly, we've been, discussing, analyzing, and criticizing Lin's contract, player salaries and every other damn contract that's announced on this forum including you. What makes you so above Melo?...or any of us above him for that fact???
Maybe we should get off our hypocritical high horses????
The only thing Melo did wrong is to not have the foresight to see how the media and those who take the words of the media at face value would spin it.
if he had any foresight he would have kept his fat mouth shut..
I agree with the OP. There are a lot of ridiculous contracts out there. Melo's will look ridiculous if he doesn't get us into the 2nd round in a Knicks jersey. I'm having a hard time seeing someone call a contract ridiculous if there is isn't a thought that the player doesn't deserve it. Or that it is bad for the franchise. What kind of invitation is that? Which is a fair point for the message boards and ESPN talking heads. Not something the leader of the team should not be saying, even if he's being asked it a million times by reporters.
JR Smith's jealousy comments were more inflammatory, but at least he's putting his contract where his mouth is.
