Knicks · How about Wallace Thomas + (page 3)

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:you do not include a young prospect that is already a good defender for these guys. Brand is in the twilight of his nba career and an aging Vince. I can see moving JR because Vince brings is the better shooter by far but, not Shump and I don't think that's the homer in me speaking.

thats not homer mate.. just HOPE.

How would you catagorize Nash? Because Knicks tried like hell to S&T Nash using Shump this offseason.

At one point I very excited about the future of this team. We had the stud frontcourt w/ Melo/Amare/Chandler and a young dymanic backcourt of Lin/Shump, a great combo of defense, floor leadership, bla bla bla

Lin gone for nothing and front office did everything they could to trade Shump for a 38 year old PG. I will never root for or be a fan of another NBA team, but loving this one is tough

you are right about that fish, but I do root for certain players on other teams, and I know it may seem disloyal, I am still a knick fan first, but unfortunately I do follow some other teams now... I have just gotten to that point in my life as a knick fan.... Honestly, this helps me....in an odd way... LOL

knickscity wrote:JR has a no trade clause, I doubt he agrees to this, and we can't trade a pick either.

I believe we have 2016 and 2018 available. The 2014 is gone in the Melo trade. I dont see any reason to trade JR. This would simply be a future # 1 pick deal with a little cap space $$ this year. But let me say this--Id be willing to throw in Shumpert with the one to get it done if it was available. Its as simple as this we have a 2-3 year horizon to win. Brand and Carter gives me a better chance to do it then Shumpert and a future draft pick.

No one know's the value of a 2018 pick, if we run in to some bad luck, it could be a high pick
Mav's don't really have a shot at contending this year, they have a shot to get in play offs in the West, but the West is so Deep that they don't really have a legit shot at winning

Let's face it, Carter is the best player in the deal, in which has no long term value
His contract is partial guaranteed for next year but if they can get a future pick, its an asset they could use in their future
So it saves Mav's $, keep's salary lower for more flexibility, and gain's an asset for future use which could grow in to a top pick when 2018 hits.
Just look at how we traded away the right's to Aldridge/Alridge/Gorden Hayword*good players drafted after him* when we starphuqed in the past

We are built to win with our best chances being this year, before our older players are litterally on their last legs, that is the gamble we took with all the moves we made

I am not a big fan of Elton Brand at his age, I don't believe in old/undersized traditional PF's in this new era
Don't see him as a huge upgrade to Kenyon Martin

I would much rather have Carter/Brandon Wright and a young piece like Jared Cunningham or Jay Crowder if we had to give up a future 1st rounder, possibly a 2nd round pick coming back to use as well

Again, I would much rather take a good look at the D League players that signed with 10day contracts by T-Wolves and even Jeff Adrien for Bobcats, along with FA pool like Kenyon Martin

However, doing this move, would make Dirk even more upset with the direction of the franchise, going from possible Championship Team to non Contenders/, and rebuilding if they make this move

Oh god how did the Super powered Backcourt of Lin And Shumpert make it in to this thread???

I honestly would just target Brand. I think he would go a long way into completing our front court. SEe if Dallas would take a Future first rounder and filler for him.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:you do not include a young prospect that is already a good defender for these guys. Brand is in the twilight of his nba career and an aging Vince. I can see moving JR because Vince brings is the better shooter by far but, not Shump and I don't think that's the homer in me speaking.

thats not homer mate.. just HOPE.

How would you catagorize Nash? Because Knicks tried like hell to S&T Nash using Shump this offseason.

At one point I very excited about the future of this team. We had the stud frontcourt w/ Melo/Amare/Chandler and a young dymanic backcourt of Lin/Shump, a great combo of defense, floor leadership, bla bla bla

Lin gone for nothing and front office did everything they could to trade Shump for a 38 year old PG. I will never root for or be a fan of another NBA team, but loving this one is tough

you are right about that fish, but I do root for certain players on other teams, and I know it may seem disloyal, I am still a knick fan first, but unfortunately I do follow some other teams now... I have just gotten to that point in my life as a knick fan.... Honestly, this helps me....in an odd way... LOL

TK, there is nothing wrong with that. I get league pass and watch a whole lot of games. I enjoy watching Golden State (and still wish we'd kept Lee over Stat as I was saying at that time). I watch the Clippers and still have a soft spot for Jamal. For the most part, I just love basketball and will watch just about any game unless the Knicks are playing (they have priority) or, one of my favorite shows.

Anji wrote:Oh god how did the Super powered Backcourt of Lin And Shumpert make it in to this thread???

I honestly would just target Brand. I think he would go a long way into completing our front court. SEe if Dallas would take a Future first rounder and filler for him.

that might be do-able. But, I doubt Cuban does it without upgrading one of the teams positions. He doesn't want to miss the playoffs and has promised to make moves. I don't see anything we can offer being seen as an upgrade. At least nothing we would be willing to part with. I don't want to lose Cope or Shump for an old head.

Knicks have no assets outside of Chandler and Melo to trade. Knicks don't even have expiring contracts to trade. The only way Knicks is getting another player is by signing FAs from the D-League.

Knicks own Ahmad Nivins rights. They should sign him now and see what he can do. Not sure if they can since he is playing for a French team.

He is wearing #12

NYKBocker wrote:Knicks have no assets outside of Chandler and Melo to trade. Knicks don't even have expiring contracts to trade. The only way Knicks is getting another player is by signing FAs from the D-League.

Knicks own Ahmad Nivins rights. They should sign him now and see what he can do. Not sure if they can since he is playing for a French team.

He is wearing #12

Shumpert and JR are both tradable assets though JR has a no-trade clause.

VCoug wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Knicks have no assets outside of Chandler and Melo to trade. Knicks don't even have expiring contracts to trade. The only way Knicks is getting another player is by signing FAs from the D-League.

Knicks own Ahmad Nivins rights. They should sign him now and see what he can do. Not sure if they can since he is playing for a French team.

He is wearing #12

Shumpert and JR are both tradable assets though JR has a no-trade clause.

Why didn't you just make that sentence: Shump is trade-able.

BRIGGS wrote:

knickscity wrote:JR has a no trade clause, I doubt he agrees to this, and we can't trade a pick either.

I believe we have 2016 and 2018 available. The 2014 is gone in the Melo trade. I dont see any reason to trade JR. This would simply be a future # 1 pick deal with a little cap space $$ this year. But let me say this--Id be willing to throw in Shumpert with the one to get it done if it was available. Its as simple as this we have a 2-3 year horizon to win. Brand and Carter gives me a better chance to do it then Shumpert and a future draft pick.

Elton Brand is no longer 20pts/10rb/1st/1.5 blocks

his production is very close to what Kenyon Martin brought to the Clippers last season
While he is approaching 34 years old and he is on his way downhill, as an expiring amnestied contract
The fact that Brand was picked up for the minimum of 2.1m out of 18m as a 1 year pick up should be a flag of what his value is

Vince Carter is still a decent role player that can score with good size, while he is already 36 years of age
His 2nd year of the deal is partial guaranteed, in which Dallas might not even what to pick up

Both players rely much on their athleticism over their careers, while Carter has developed a pretty consistent 3pt shot, and can make some surprising dunks at times

I question trading for both players at their age with a 1st round pick in which we have no clue what our team would be looking like
Now you are willing to throw in Iman Shumpert, a 1st round pick, and expiring deals?
Iman Shumpert is nowhere near where he was last year and has a great work ethic, it will take him some time, probably great improvements by next year as he gets in better shape over the summer with training. Just look at the improvements of Kemba Walker this year, Westbrook/Rose's 2nd year. It is unfortunate that Iman got hurt, who know's how much he would have improved if not. I am not sure how much value Iman has in him now and how much he would have had if he never got hurt.

But I think for expiring deals, 1st round pick in which no one know's where we would be from 1-28, and a young player that showed signs of being an elite defender for 2 players that are towards their end of their careers with what we already have/could break down any time as well, is an extremely bad move to make

Maybe I am overvaluing Iman but I think there could be much better players that GM's would have interest in with that package than for Vince Carter *a solid veteran bench scorer, *36 years age*
Brand does not have much value, if any. Dallas should take it with no hesitation if NY offered it.
While I agree it probably improves our chances for this winning it this year, it is NOT WORTH IT
It is the correct players to want to target for a championship in 2003, not 2013

In essence, 2 1st round picks, expirings, for 2 role/bench players that are on their way to retirement?
If you were complaining about Camby for 2 2nd picks, I don't know why you would even consider 2 1st round picks for these guys on their last legs or soon to be veteran minimum players

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Knicks have no assets outside of Chandler and Melo to trade. Knicks don't even have expiring contracts to trade. The only way Knicks is getting another player is by signing FAs from the D-League.

Knicks own Ahmad Nivins rights. They should sign him now and see what he can do. Not sure if they can since he is playing for a French team.

He is wearing #12

Shumpert and JR are both tradable assets though JR has a no-trade clause.

Why didn't you just make that sentence: Shump is trade-able.

Because they both are? JR would just need to agree to it.

talking about trading a young prospect like Shump and a serviceable young vet like JR for Old injury prone Brand and Vince. Is Isiah running this site? Vince may be an "offensive" upgrade over Smith but JR is the better perimeter defender. Brand is too old to give up a guy with Shumps potential even if he never becomes a big scoring threat.

DurzoBlint wrote:talking about trading a young prospect like Shump and a serviceable young vet like JR for Old injury prone Brand and Vince. Is Isiah running this site? Vince may be an "offensive" upgrade over Smith but JR is the better perimeter defender. Brand is too old to give up a guy with Shumps potential even if he never becomes a big scoring threat.

Youth for age. Briggs is on a roll.

VCoug wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can we include JR?

I think we'd have to.

and we'd gladly.

knickscity wrote:JR has a no trade clause, I doubt he agrees to this, and we can't trade a pick either.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

as long as its a healthy elton brand, we should do this trade if Cuban is interested?
What is stronger in Cuban's mind?
His dislike for Kidd or his dislike for the queens down in South Beach?

Cartman718 wrote:as long as its a healthy elton brand, we should do this trade if Cuban is interested?
What is stronger in Cuban's mind?
His dislike for Kidd or his dislike for the queens down in South Beach?

I don't see why he would hate Miami any more than any other team. The only beefs he seems to have are with Stern, the ref's and Kidd.

DurzoBlint wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:as long as its a healthy elton brand, we should do this trade if Cuban is interested?
What is stronger in Cuban's mind?
His dislike for Kidd or his dislike for the queens down in South Beach?

I don't see why he would hate Miami any more than any other team. The only beefs he seems to have are with Stern, the ref's and Kidd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5857472
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/18/could-lakers-be-planning-to-make-2014-run-at-lebron/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mge0QBYHTNw