Knicks · Start Amare Bench Tyson (page 3)

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Rest prevents flu? Tyson's career playoff record speaks for itself.
Per 36 minutes, Amare is averaging 13.2 points and 4.7 rbs. Tyson is averaging 11.3 points and 11.3 rbs.
You play Amare at center and we have the games' worst rebounding PF and worst rebounding C in the starting lineup.

Thats the point. Tyson can help us more in the playoffs and Amare will probably be useless. Rest prevents many things and hopefully the flu/virus/whatever.

And btw, not sure where you got your numbers from. Tyson in the playoffs per 36:

8.6 pts (pretty bad)
10.2 rebs (ok)
0.7 assists vs 1.4 turnovers (bad!)

lets not go gaga over those numbers because they ain't that great.

I was citing this year's #s.

I was looking at the playoff numbers which is what I care about.

Why? I'd be shocked if career playoff #s better predicted future post-season performance than current regular season did. The current regular season is both more recent and in most cases a bigger sample.

do you really believe that?

Do you really not? The obvious answer is that the bigger more recent sample is better. The burden is on you to come up with evidence for the alternative.

Also one of the biggest myths is that there's something fundamentally different about post-season than regular season play in general.

Ok ... for starters

Tyson PPG per 36 - Playoffs last 3 years:

8.4
8.8
6.7

Reg season:

13.1
12.2
12.2

Hhhhmmm - interesting start to my research. This should be interesting.

One case is not evidence. You should already know that. You're talking about a handful of post-season games. What you would need is a multiple regression equation with past playoff and current regular season #s predicting the post-season performance. It's already been done and you're wrong though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Rest prevents flu? Tyson's career playoff record speaks for itself.
Per 36 minutes, Amare is averaging 13.2 points and 4.7 rbs. Tyson is averaging 11.3 points and 11.3 rbs.
You play Amare at center and we have the games' worst rebounding PF and worst rebounding C in the starting lineup.

Thats the point. Tyson can help us more in the playoffs and Amare will probably be useless. Rest prevents many things and hopefully the flu/virus/whatever.

And btw, not sure where you got your numbers from. Tyson in the playoffs per 36:

8.6 pts (pretty bad)
10.2 rebs (ok)
0.7 assists vs 1.4 turnovers (bad!)

lets not go gaga over those numbers because they ain't that great.

I was citing this year's #s.

I was looking at the playoff numbers which is what I care about.

Why? I'd be shocked if career playoff #s better predicted future post-season performance than current regular season did. The current regular season is both more recent and in most cases a bigger sample.

do you really believe that?

Do you really not? The obvious answer is that the bigger more recent sample is better. The burden is on you to come up with evidence for the alternative.

Also one of the biggest myths is that there's something fundamentally different about post-season than regular season play in general.

Ok ... for starters

Tyson PPG per 36 - Playoffs last 3 years:

8.4
8.8
6.7

Reg season:

13.1
12.2
12.2

Hhhhmmm - interesting start to my research. This should be interesting.

One case is not evidence. You should already know that. You're talking about a handful of post-season games. What you would need is a multiple regression equation with past playoff and current regular season #s predicting the post-season performance. It's already been done and you're wrong though.

Please provide link. I am willing to learn/consider.

I am talking about Tyson though (for now)

http://www.amazon.com/Stumbling-On-Wins-...

The point is you can't focus on a couple dozen games by one player and reach any meaningful conclusions about that one player's future performance. In stats jargon, the confidence intervals around the means from those dozen games are going to be huge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_...). You'll just be over-interpreting random variation in performance.

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.amazon.com/Stumbling-On-Wins-...

The point is you can't focus on a couple dozen games by one player and reach any meaningful conclusions about that one player's future performance. In stats jargon, the confidence intervals around the means from those dozen games are going to be huge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_...). You'll just be over-interpreting random variation in performance.

Thanks Bonn. I will read. How about quality of opponent? Is this discussed here?

Well that's a separate topic. Players will probably put up worse stats against tougher opponents whether in the regular or post-season. You could look at how the player has done against top teams over the past few regular seasons. I suspect that the loss in sample size would be too great to make that worthwhile, though.

Bonn1997 wrote:Well that's a separate topic. Players will probably put up worse stats against tougher opponents whether in the regular or post-season. You could look at how the player has done against top teams over the past few regular seasons. I suspect that the loss in sample size would be too great to make that worthwhile, though.

well the postseason is usually tougher opponents, no?

Melo going down finally gets Amare in the starting lineup and he and the Knicks look great. Easy baskets

mrKnickShot wrote:

OldFan wrote:Wow is chandler under-appreciated. He is a top three center. This team has no defense and very little rebounding without him. He would start for almost every team in the league and he isn't good enough to start for the the Knicks?

Of course he is good enough to start for most teams.

He was not worth what we paid for him though.

He's good enough to start for almost every contender and he's a top 3 center. His salary is about 13 mil. Outside of players limited by their years in the league there are not a lot of better players making less. Marcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol, Okafor, Hibbert, Brooks Lopez, Bogut are all making about the same. Bynum and P Gasol make a lot more. I would take Chandler over any of them.

He's 5th in rebounding is one of the top defenders in the league and although he's not a big scorer - he's a very efficient scorer.

guns, maybe you shouldn't post every idea that comes to your head?

bench tyson? cmon man...

nyk4ever wrote:guns, maybe you shouldn't post every idea that comes to your head?

bench tyson? cmon man...

Exactly. And, he's benching him in order to make room for Steve Novak as a starter at that.

Benching our starting Center in Tyson Chandler? Guess fans no longer value defense, rebounding and leadership ability.

This man is a Championship Winning starting Center. He's been a Defensive Player of the Year. An All-Star. An American Gold Medalist Olympian. Ranked 5th in boards. On the verge of leading the NBA in FG percentage during consecutive seasons due to his ability to not only clean up on the offensive boards, but also finish anything and everything that's in the proximity of the rim. He's a beast down low.

Yea, right. Lets bench Tyson Chandler. The man who's changing the defensive culture of our Knicks alongside Iman Shumpert. Trade Shumpert while you're at it too. Melo too.

Trade them all during these types of threads.

Tyson is not gonna come off the bench. lol What really bothers me is that we have 2 of the top offensively effective players in the league. Tyson was putting up some crazy FG% and now Amare has some incredible TS% since his comeback. Why cant we run more plays for them 2 instead?

1 voted yes, assuming it's Gunsnewing, and 11 voted no. Lock this thread?

Haha yea that was me. This thread was not about Tyson but about how he and amare cant coexist but that was answered last night. Would stoll like to start novak over white while Melo is out

We already look like the highway to the rim for opposing backcourts now. Bench Tyson?
Welcome to MSG, the most famous layup drill arena on earth.

Woody has got to figure out a way to get Amare and Tyson to live together on O.

I dont think its amare tyson or amare melo. It might be the three of them together but they were 6-1 before Amare went down.

I just want:
Tyson
Amare
Melo
Shump
Felton

Maybe Woodson is saving that for the playoffs

starting line up should be chandler,amare,melo,shump,felton,
finishing line up should be chandler,amare,melo,jr,kidd or felton pending who is looking better that night

it really is nonsense that the big three cant play together. the coach needs to make it work and spread the floor if he can't make it work we need one that will make it work. amare is the better pick and roll player. chandler needs to take on the roll of ben wallace ala detroit days with the big three in. with better ft shooting and ability in general.

Exactly this team is going no where if the 3 cant play together. Melo and JR 1 on 5 will lead to another 1st rd exit

gunsnewing wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Rest prevents flu? Tyson's career playoff record speaks for itself.
Per 36 minutes, Amare is averaging 13.2 points and 4.7 rbs. Tyson is averaging 11.3 points and 11.3 rbs.
You play Amare at center and we have the games' worst rebounding PF and worst rebounding C in the starting lineup.

Err, you made a mistake there. Those are their per game averages no per 36. Per 36 Amare is putting up 21.5 points and 7.4 rebounds and Tyson is at 12.2 points and rebounds.

Exactly.

Amare in 36mins averages 25+

Tyson in 36mins is lucky to put up 10pts on 5 dunks

If Tyson was playing the type of defense we need, I wouldn't entertain this discussion. The only problem I have is what type of message does this send if you bench Chandler, who may not be as good as last year defensively, but still the best low post defender we have, for an offensive player who couldn't guard his own shadow?

To get full potential offensively...All three guys need space on the block(Melo, Stat, Chandler). Each player needs shooters around them. This is why I liked Dantoni's offensive mind. I like Woody's defensive urgency. We need a Dantoni / Woody mix for this to work.

The problem with Chandler is similar to Brewer. Their man will always play help defense. That means they are free to help on any drives to the basket, and forces our star players to make passes in traffic. This leads to turn overs and fast break points the other way. This interrupts chemistry and momentum.

We have fundamental flaws that's hard to fix in the middle of the season. This is why Iso ball doesn't work, unless you surround Melo with all shooters. When the big three (or two) are in the game, you have to have more ball and people movement, otherwise it's easier for teams to double, trap and cause turnovers.... Come on Woody....You should know this already....Thats why we were 18-5 earlier.....We went away from that for some reason. Listen to magic when he talks about the knicks...Hes been on point all season about the knicks.

But as soon as Melo goes out, we are back to playing winning basketball. We need a coach that can challenge Melo and Melo can respect. That used to be Woody, but I'm starting to see that relationship fade, based on Melo's game lately, with his sticky hands. When the ball sticks to Melo, it will stick to Smith and Stat as well. It starts with Melo and Woody.

I like Woody because he's not affraid to challenge his star players....I'm beginning to worry now if he lost his courage to challenge Melo, Smith and even Chandlers lack of man to man defense. Hold these dudes accountable like you are known for.....Otherwise, we get another first round exit.