Knicks · Metta or Copeland? (page 2)

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Markji wrote:

playa2 wrote:When teams score and play defense in the playoffs, we would need Copeland to help us score points. We aren't built to shut teams down, but to OUT SCORE THEM, Metta was brought here for PR purposes to make up for losing Copeland and JR's surgery.

Metta was brought here to play basketball. The PR part - to give the Knicks some headlines - in a justifiable way. Nothing wrong with that.
And for playing bball on the court, Metta outplays AK47.

BUAHAHAHAHA METTA OUTPLAYS AK47??!?!/ BUAHAHAHA OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS OMFG NO WAY BRO

no way

that comment is an insult to basketball gods

Ummm, in what basketball universe are you comparing the two? AK never smelled 20ppg his entire career.

Oh wait, AK47 is white, right?

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

We heard the same things last year. Woodson trusts veterans until they go down in the playoffs and you are forced to throw younger players out there and risk chemistry and them looking like deer in headlights. Kidd was playing over 30mins when felon web down. Rasheed and Camby broke down. And even Melo, Tyson and JR. And of course Amare too

jrodmc wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Markji wrote:

playa2 wrote:When teams score and play defense in the playoffs, we would need Copeland to help us score points. We aren't built to shut teams down, but to OUT SCORE THEM, Metta was brought here for PR purposes to make up for losing Copeland and JR's surgery.

Metta was brought here to play basketball. The PR part - to give the Knicks some headlines - in a justifiable way. Nothing wrong with that.
And for playing bball on the court, Metta outplays AK47.

BUAHAHAHAHA METTA OUTPLAYS AK47??!?!/ BUAHAHAHA OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS OMFG NO WAY BRO

no way

that comment is an insult to basketball gods

Ummm, in what basketball universe are you comparing the two? AK never smelled 20ppg his entire career.

Oh wait, AK47 is white, right?

He's not white, he's "Russian"!

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

Rebound, pass, steal, man to man D, 2 way player, can play multiple positions, can guard multiple positions, can finish in traffic, hit an open 3, team D, call out defensive sets, toughness and hard fouls, work ethic, gym rat since St John's, workout warrior, playoff experience, very coachable...

Only thing Cope has on Metta is scoring.

gunsnewing wrote:We heard the same things last year. Woodson trusts veterans until they go down in the playoffs and you are forced to throw younger players out there and risk chemistry and them looking like deer in headlights. Kidd was playing over 30mins when felon web down. Rasheed and Camby broke down. And even Melo, Tyson and JR. And of course Amare too

Woodson didn't have any young players last year other than Shump. As far as guys breaking down, the only guy that was overplayed from that list in my opinion was Kidd. Sheed and KT had injuries reoccur if I am remembering right and Camby never played enough to break down. In my opinion the list sounds a bit like a blame list. Amare? The guy broke down in training camp and was on a tight minutes watch when he came back. I believe he went over his minutes twice and was done until the post season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/5096...

look at how well Chris Copeland played during our last stretch in the season when he actually was getting minutes because of injuries
This was the only time he got minutes consistently and it was at PF/C, the position that he should be utilized at, NOT SF because of his lack of speed
While he was utilized at SF/PF WITH NOVAK together earlier in the season, of course our DEF is going to look bad, in addition to Pablo/Kidd/Amare, you cannot play a worse DEF rotation/lineup than that

At SF, I would say Artest is much better than Copeland, but I don't think either player's strength is to play at the SF position with their lack of speed

Copeland improved his DEF/REBOUNDING and DEF EFFORT greatly during this stretch, and he was EFFICIENT, was NOT a black hole
He moved the ball, open the lane up for JR/Felton to penetrate, went INSIDE and OUT, always put a body on his defender, and showed he could facilitate and pass well
During the stretch, he played as the #1 option and he displayed his all round skills with the minutes he got
I had a feeling Copeland was going to get back in the doghouse with the way Woodson's stubbornness, doghouse treatment, and favoring players that "he likes" even when they play bad and another was playing well

As for AK47 vs Metta

Artest is stronger
Artest has a better 3pt shot
Maybe even a better post game
Rebounding might be a little better in STAT's

EVERYTHING ELSE goes in favor to AK47, his length and ability to cover ground with his IQ fits perfectly with KG with a multiplied effect

AK47 is a 12pt, 6 rebound, 4 ass, 2-3blocks, 2 steals threat EVERY NIGHT
He is one of the rare players in the entire history of the NBA with the ability to flirt with 5 STATS in PTS, REB's, ASS's, BL's, ST's

On January 3, 2006, against the Los Angeles Lakers, Kirilenko posted a statline of 14 points, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals and 7 blocks. This was the third time in his career he achieved a five-by-five. It was also the first-ever regulation "5×6" — a game in which a player registers at least 6 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 6 blocks, and 6 steals – since the NBA began recording blocks and steals in the 1973–74 season. In 1987, Hakeem Olajuwon had 38 points, 17 rebounds, 12 blocks, 7 steals, and 6 assists for the Houston Rockets in a double-overtime win over the Seattle SuperSonics, the only other time a player has earned a 5×6.[15][16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Kiri...

MWP IS NOT the versatile defender/player that he once was, not even close, while AK47 still can defend multiple positions, and has multiple around skills, IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE,
AK47 is a perfect glue player that can do it all and his game is multiplied with KG's abilities as another great glue player/all round game despite their age

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

Rebound, pass, steal, man to man D, 2 way player, can play multiple positions, can guard multiple positions, can finish in traffic, hit an open 3, team D, call out defensive sets, toughness and hard fouls, work ethic, gym rat since St John's, workout warrior, playoff experience, very coachable...

Only thing Cope has on Metta is scoring.

You are one of the BIGGEST Trolls on UK and your evaluation of talent is completely horrible....
What did you think about Harden when he was on OKC?
Do you want me to bump your opinion/evaluation on Harden?

Stop attacking other's people's opinions because you disagree with them
All you do is BASH, BASH, BASH, no matter what, from players to people's opinions here
You are good in posting HOT Chicks and funny come backs though LOL

Come on, you are bringing up ST JOHN's Ron Artest when it is over 14 years ago, he is NOT the same player as he once was, NO WHERE NEAR IT
He was ABLE TO the those things over 7years ago, he has NOT been that player LONG AGO
He is still a gym rat, tough and STRONG as a mule, but he is NOT versatile/skilled player like he once was

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We heard the same things last year. Woodson trusts veterans until they go down in the playoffs and you are forced to throw younger players out there and risk chemistry and them looking like deer in headlights. Kidd was playing over 30mins when felon web down. Rasheed and Camby broke down. And even Melo, Tyson and JR. And of course Amare too

Woodson didn't have any young players last year other than Shump. As far as guys breaking down, the only guy that was overplayed from that list in my opinion was Kidd. Sheed and KT had injuries reoccur if I am remembering right and Camby never played enough to break down. In my opinion the list sounds a bit like a blame list. Amare? The guy broke down in training camp and was on a tight minutes watch when he came back. I believe he went over his minutes twice and was done until the post season.

He didn't have young players because he didn't want them. He wanted Kidd and Sheed. He had Copeland all yr and never gave him consistent minutes to learn to play against NBA players. Instead he was forced to play Copeland in the playoffs after the Dinos went down. Against the likes of kg, pierces and David west. Under all kinds of pressure

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

Rebound, pass, steal, man to man D, 2 way player, can play multiple positions, can guard multiple positions, can finish in traffic, hit an open 3, team D, call out defensive sets, toughness and hard fouls, work ethic, gym rat since St John's, workout warrior, playoff experience, very coachable...

Only thing Cope has on Metta is scoring.

You are one of the BIGGEST Trolls on UK and your evaluation of talent is completely horrible....
What did you think about Harden when he was on OKC?
Do you want me to bump your opinion/evaluation on Harden?

Stop attacking other's people's opinions because you disagree with them
All you do is BASH, BASH, BASH, no matter what, from players to people's opinions here
You are good in posting HOT Chicks and funny come backs though LOL

Come on, you are bringing up ST JOHN's Ron Artest when it is over 14 years ago, he is NOT the same player as he once was, NO WHERE NEAR IT
He was ABLE TO the those things over 7years ago, he has NOT been that player LONG AGO
He is still a gym rat, tough and STRONG as a mule, but he is NOT versatile/skilled player like he once was

+1
His evaluation is horrible

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

Rebound, pass, steal, man to man D, 2 way player, can play multiple positions, can guard multiple positions, can finish in traffic, hit an open 3, team D, call out defensive sets, toughness and hard fouls, work ethic, gym rat since St John's, workout warrior, playoff experience, very coachable...

Only thing Cope has on Metta is scoring.

You are one of the BIGGEST Trolls on UK and your evaluation of talent is completely horrible....
What did you think about Harden when he was on OKC?
Do you want me to bump your opinion/evaluation on Harden?

Stop attacking other's people's opinions because you disagree with them
All you do is BASH, BASH, BASH, no matter what, from players to people's opinions here
You are good in posting HOT Chicks and funny come backs though LOL

Come on, you are bringing up ST JOHN's Ron Artest when it is over 14 years ago, he is NOT the same player as he once was, NO WHERE NEAR IT
He was ABLE TO the those things over 7years ago, he has NOT been that player LONG AGO
He is still a gym rat, tough and STRONG as a mule, but he is NOT versatile/skilled player like he once was

Bonn1997 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:MWP has been a below average NBA player for a few years now. Copeland would have been the better choice.

OK, what does Metta do well?

Rebound, pass, steal, man to man D, 2 way player, can play multiple positions, can guard multiple positions, can finish in traffic, hit an open 3, team D, call out defensive sets, toughness and hard fouls, work ethic, gym rat since St John's, workout warrior, playoff experience, very coachable...

Only thing Cope has on Metta is scoring.

You are one of the BIGGEST Trolls on UK and your evaluation of talent is completely horrible....
What did you think about Harden when he was on OKC?
Do you want me to bump your opinion/evaluation on Harden?

Stop attacking other's people's opinions because you disagree with them
All you do is BASH, BASH, BASH, no matter what, from players to people's opinions here
You are good in posting HOT Chicks and funny come backs though LOL

Come on, you are bringing up ST JOHN's Ron Artest when it is over 14 years ago, he is NOT the same player as he once was, NO WHERE NEAR IT
He was ABLE TO the those things over 7years ago, he has NOT been that player LONG AGO
He is still a gym rat, tough and STRONG as a mule, but he is NOT versatile/skilled player like he once was

+1
His evaluation is horrible

-1
I like my evaluation.

I like Metta better for the team. If he can hit those threes at 35% plus it will be a great addition because you know he bring the team defense up a level or two.

I am going to make the assumption that we are all smart enough to realize that we are not getting the Ron Artest from over a decade ago but someone who will add toughness and hustle for 15-20mins. Unless Woodson plays him close to 30mins and he breaks down just in time for the playoffs and another young player who sat on his A$$ all year is thrown into the fire

MWP is a good addition and even with his age can give us some good production.

AK47 is a very unusual an underrated player who is often forgotton. Saw him pay last year with Minny and he had a great game. At 10mm per it made sense after seeing him play.

His addition to me is as important as any them this offseason. he is better than Wallace.

I have no idea what their rotation will look like but if the move the ball well and keep to Kidds no ISO promise then they should have easier shots.

Nalod sees three court positions.

Bigs:
BroPez/Blatch/KG/Evans/Plumlee/DJ White: Rotate 4-5's as needed.
Wings: JJ/AK47/Pierce/Shengila (only 21)/Teletovic (either he in rotation or cut him loose)/Terry
Point: Deron, Livingston, Taylor

Lots of combos here.

Be interesting to see how they do their rotations and build chemistry.

Knicks:

Bigs: Tyson/Bargs/Amare/Tyler
Wings: Melo/Metta/Leslie/
Wings2: Shump/JR/THjr
Point: Felton/Pablo

Knicks won't be as deep thru 12 as Nets but they in my opinion be better than last years team.

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We heard the same things last year. Woodson trusts veterans until they go down in the playoffs and you are forced to throw younger players out there and risk chemistry and them looking like deer in headlights. Kidd was playing over 30mins when felon web down. Rasheed and Camby broke down. And even Melo, Tyson and JR. And of course Amare too

Woodson didn't have any young players last year other than Shump. As far as guys breaking down, the only guy that was overplayed from that list in my opinion was Kidd. Sheed and KT had injuries reoccur if I am remembering right and Camby never played enough to break down. In my opinion the list sounds a bit like a blame list. Amare? The guy broke down in training camp and was on a tight minutes watch when he came back. I believe he went over his minutes twice and was done until the post season.

He didn't have young players because he didn't want them. He wanted Kidd and Sheed. He had Copeland all yr and never gave him consistent minutes to learn to play against NBA players. Instead he was forced to play Copeland in the playoffs after the Dinos went down. Against the likes of kg, pierces and David west. Under all kinds of pressure

Cope is older than JR, Shump, Felton, and Melo. He just played other places than the nba. I agree there were times where it seemed Cope and Prigs should have been getting minutes but neither guy is a young player by nba standards. That is why I think Cope needed to sign the bigger contract. It could be his one chance. I don't recall any young guys on last years summer league team that I thought should make the roster in place of the vets brought in but I could be mistaken.

Don't get hung up on the Young part. I'm referring to having a guy as talented as cope albeit with flaws, sitting on the bench all yr when there were ample opportunities to play him to spell the vets. He was good enough for Vogel but not the the almighty father figure Woodson. Woodson being the stickler for veterans that he is elected to run Kidd Melo Felton JR Tyson into the ground. And he he pushed for Sheed and held onto him until he was forced to retire. Like Copeland prigs never got consistent minutes even when Felton went down. Woodson was still playing Kidd 32mins+

I just hope while evaluating the team Woodson first evaluates himself

It's a mute point anyway. 2015 should be the year we target. Until then I would actually like to see out young players develop. Artest logging close to 30mins on this team does nothing for our future. And there is a possibility he breaks down like th rest of them while stunting th development of younger players

gunsnewing wrote:Don't get hung up on the Young part. I'm referring to having a guy as talented as cope albeit with flaws, sitting on the bench all yr when there were ample opportunities to play him to spell the vets. Woodson being the stickler for veterans that he is elected to run Kidd Melo Felton JR Tyson into the ground. And he he pushed for Sheed and held onto him until he was forced to retire. Like Copeland prigs never got consistent minutes even when Felton went down. Woodson was still playing Kidd 32mins+

I just hope while evaluating the team Woodson first evaluates himself

It's a mute point anyway. 2015 should be the year we target. Until then I would actually like to see out young players develop. Artest logging close to 30mins on this team does nothing for our future. And there is a possibility he breaks down like th rest of them while stunting th development of younger players

The Knicks only had one pick in this draft and I am not sure he even makes the rotation this year. I don't think you should expect a team that expects to win their division and hopefully have a deeper run in the playoffs to be giving minutes to and developing undrafted guys. Maybe Murry fits that role but the other guys need time in the dl or working with coaches in practice. If they are the Knick guys of the future the important thing is getting them signed to contracts that allow the Knicks to keep them and hopefully having a couple of them spending the year in Erie.

Hopefully Woodson has learned and he plays he likes of Murry and Leslie this time around. The Knicks lack of speed was exposed in a big way last year. No easy baskets on offense and our PGA couldn't keep up with even scrub pgs

gunsnewing wrote:Hopefully Woodson has learned and he plays he likes of Murry and Leslie this time around. The Knicks lack of speed was exposed in a big way last year. No easy baskets on offense and our PGA couldn't keep up with even scrub pgs

I like Leslie but nothing about him indicates that he is ready to get minutes on a team that won 54 games last year. Not even sure if Hardaway is there yet.

It's kinda of waste to have a genius at finding Hidden talent like Grunwald who found Lin and Cope. And then a coach who refuses to use those weapons because he doesn't trust them even in meaningless playoff games. Knicks are not winning anything until after 2015. Woodson deservingly or undeservingly will be made scapegoat