Knicks · Metta or Copeland? (page 3)

It's kinda of waste to have a genius at finding Hidden talent like Grunwald who found Lin and Cope. And then a coach who refuses to use those weapons because he doesn't trust them even in meaningless playoff games. Knicks are not winning anything until after 2015. Woodson deservingly or undeservingly will be made scapegoat

gunsnewing wrote:It's kinda of waste to have a genius at finding Hidden talent like Grunwald who found Lin and Cope. And then a coach who refuses to use those weapons because he doesn't trust them even in meaningless playoff games. Knicks are not winning anything until after 2015. Woodson deservingly or undeservingly will be made scapegoat

Lin was Woodson's starting point guard until he got hurt. Cope was a great find. I never understood why Woodson didn't play him more. Cope was an undrafted rookie and a camp invite. My guess when I think about it is it was either how things went in practice with Cope or it took a long time for Woodson to develop a level of trust in him as a player.

There is no point in stocking guys in the dleague when Woodson will never play them over the vets until he is forced to and they are not ready against NBA playoff competition. A coach is suppose to teach no sit back and leave everything in the hands of the vets. See Vogel with George Stevenson hill and Thibs in chicago

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's kinda of waste to have a genius at finding Hidden talent like Grunwald who found Lin and Cope. And then a coach who refuses to use those weapons because he doesn't trust them even in meaningless playoff games. Knicks are not winning anything until after 2015. Woodson deservingly or undeservingly will be made scapegoat

Lin was Woodson's starting point guard until he got hurt. Cope was a great find. I never understood why Woodson didn't play him more. Cope was an undrafted rookie and a camp invite. My guess when I think about it is it was either how things went in practice with Cope or it took a long time for Woodson to develop a level of trust in him as a player.

So you don't see that as an inditement on Woodsons ability to coach? Why is it that Vogel Pops and Thibs trust their young players? It's because they teach and prepare them for battle. Not ignore them completely until the vets go down and you are forced to through them into the fire

The "coaching" of young players is too Dantoni like for my taste

Too be fair I think it's more of an organizational problem then Woodsons. He was forced to develop plyers in Atlanta and did a nice job. I hope this year he has learned and incorporates the yoots with the vets more. Unless he fears losing his job working for a guy like Dolan

gunsnewing wrote:There is no point in stocking guys in the dleague when Woodson will never play them over the vets until he is forced to and they are not ready against NBA playoff competition. A coach is suppose to teach no sit back and leave everything in the hands of the vets. See Vogel with George Stevenson hill and Thibs in chicago

Well George was a lottery pick not an undrafted free agent in what was called a weak draft. I think Hill was developed by the Spurs and again the guy was a first round pick. Stephenson had all the tools but a troubled background. I could be wrong but I think he was in the Fields, Rautins draft and was available. The coach/gm tandem at the time was going for high character four year guys and staying away from guys like Stephenson. Stephenson had first round talent. The pacers have done a nice job with him and deserve credit for sticking with him after he threw his girlfriend down the stairs. I think there is a big difference in expectations for lottery picks, late first round picks, and guys that are undrafted. The Knicks in my opinion appear to be trying to be resourceful in finding young talent outside of the draft. That is much harder to do then to develop first round guys.

I'm starting to believe Woody could have been told who not to play.

I say that because when we needed points against the Pacers and made the great comeback by taking the lead in Indy in game 6 Copeland played an integral part along with Shump. Woodson would take took Copeland out of the game after knocking down a momentum changer shot , this is why I think he was told to not let Copeland outshine Melo at end of the game moment. Melo needed another threat from down town on the court, because he had the meltdown at the end of the game.

It's possible. I wouldn't put anything past the Knicks organization

I think Artest's play has really fallen off in the last year. Cope was just coming on. Yeah, Artest is a still a decent defender but he is not what he once was.
I really wonder how much he is going to help/hurt us...

I would rather have Copeland to be honest and I think he helps us more. The wildcard is how much does Artest have in the tank being back in NY?

well, I have seen it posted that despite the team he has played on when Artest is on the floor the team plays better. If you believe in +/- then Metta has a positive effect. As for his D, he is still a good defender of isolation and post ups according to synergy and that's with guarding the opponent's top players. He is also still a good team defender too that will be playing with Shump and Tyson at times.

if he does start at 3 I think it would be very interesting to see how he is being guarded by 4s. Metta may have lost a step but he can still beat you off the dribble and is a smart passer. His assists has dropped but some of that is role

Melo played the 3 in LA even for Dantoni who likes small ball. Not sure exactly how he does guarding 4s every game. Rather star Bargs and at least space the floor and sure up the offense

isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

Artest not being the Allstar he used to be doesn't mean he isn't still better than Copeland for this team.

BigSm00th wrote:isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

There also is a huge intimidation factor with Ron. He will 'go there' and has the rep of being a little off center. The Knicks could have used that against Indy.

CrushAlot wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

There also is a huge intimidation factor with Ron. He will 'go there' and has the rep of being a little off center. The Knicks could have used that against Indy.

K-Mart was supposed to be Melo's body guard last season if things got out of hand. Artest is going to be the guy the opponents want a body guard from.
Bring back Kenyon and we have the toughest front line we've seen in a long time.

Can I see just one game where the no-layup rule is enforced?!

MaTT4281 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

There also is a huge intimidation factor with Ron. He will 'go there' and has the rep of being a little off center. The Knicks could have used that against Indy.

K-Mart was supposed to be Melo's body guard last season if things got out of hand. Artest is going to be the guy the opponents want a body guard from.
Bring back Kenyon and we have the toughest front line we've seen in a long time.

Can I see just one game where the no-layup rule is enforced?!

agree with both of this. not to mention our "new rival" the brooklyn "celtics" know not to cross Ron.

Cope was a nice player but i think we can replace him. Ron has been around the block a few times, knows what to do, and brings it on D.

jrodmc wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Markji wrote:

playa2 wrote:When teams score and play defense in the playoffs, we would need Copeland to help us score points. We aren't built to shut teams down, but to OUT SCORE THEM, Metta was brought here for PR purposes to make up for losing Copeland and JR's surgery.

Metta was brought here to play basketball. The PR part - to give the Knicks some headlines - in a justifiable way. Nothing wrong with that.
And for playing bball on the court, Metta outplays AK47.

BUAHAHAHAHA METTA OUTPLAYS AK47??!?!/ BUAHAHAHA OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS OMFG NO WAY BRO

no way

that comment is an insult to basketball gods

Ummm, in what basketball universe are you comparing the two? AK never smelled 20ppg his entire career.

Oh wait, AK47 is white, right?

and AK is known for being sort of a drama queen. If happy, he's locked in and focused but, if he isn't happy, you will notice a definite lack of focus along with a drop in production.

DurzoBlint wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Markji wrote:

playa2 wrote:When teams score and play defense in the playoffs, we would need Copeland to help us score points. We aren't built to shut teams down, but to OUT SCORE THEM, Metta was brought here for PR purposes to make up for losing Copeland and JR's surgery.

Metta was brought here to play basketball. The PR part - to give the Knicks some headlines - in a justifiable way. Nothing wrong with that.
And for playing bball on the court, Metta outplays AK47.

BUAHAHAHAHA METTA OUTPLAYS AK47??!?!/ BUAHAHAHA OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS OMFG NO WAY BRO

no way

that comment is an insult to basketball gods

Ummm, in what basketball universe are you comparing the two? AK never smelled 20ppg his entire career.

Oh wait, AK47 is white, right?

and AK is known for being sort of a drama queen. If happy, he's locked in and focused but, if he isn't happy, you will notice a definite lack of focus along with a drop in production.

Lets not talk too much about others DramaQueens as if we don't have any of our own!

Our very own Melo can be quite parsnipitty when the elements are not to liking!

CrushAlot wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

There also is a huge intimidation factor with Ron. He will 'go there' and has the rep of being a little off center. The Knicks could have used that against Indy.

We needed points against INDY and if you watch the clip, we had their defense running around & confused when the ball moved around in the last 4 min of the game. Then Melo turned it over twice in a row and that shifted the momentum. We weren't going to defend them every time down we needed buckets and that where Copeland comes in!

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:isn't the question here "who would you rather have, Artest and Prigioni or Copeland?"

we got a starting SF and a backup PG for the same price it would've cost us to keep Copeland.

Copeland's a nice player but at 29, he is what he is - a pretty good scorer who gets lost defensively.

while Artest may not have the quickness he used to, he still has great hands and great defensive anticipation. he can easily guard the more physical forwards that melo had to guard last year.

There also is a huge intimidation factor with Ron. He will 'go there' and has the rep of being a little off center. The Knicks could have used that against Indy.

We needed points against INDY and if you watch the clip, we had their defense running around & confused when the ball moved around in the last 4 min of the game. Then Melo turned it over twice in a row and that shifted the momentum. We weren't going to defend them every time down we needed buckets and that where Copeland comes in!

Hopefully this year that is where Bargs comes in. Bargs in clips I have seen is a very hard cover for Hibbert.