CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
who said he would have done that... he is brilliant.. he understands how to completely take advantage and trample the desperate teams.... I honestly don't want to deal with him again... LOL
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:azamatbagatov wrote:All you guys talking up Bargnani's game know damn well you wouldn't have been saying the same things about it 2 months ago when he was wearing a Raptors jersey. The guy is a terribly flawed player who is ok at scoring and putrid in every other option of the game. My opinion on his game hasn't changed in years because his game hasn't changed in years. He wears a knicks uniform now and all of those things go away? He's untapped potential at 28? (His age when the season starts)Please
I cant argue with anything you said. Look we all love the knicks and we all hope Bargnani actually contributes well for us. However liek you said Bargnani does has flaws and he has to make improvements in order to get more positive reaction for the fanbase. I always support the knicks players but they still need to earn it
I think I am actually one of the few that liked Bargs game. djsunyc is his number one fan. I think he would have been perfect here last year also. I followed the Rockets also last year and thought he would be perfect there as well as a stretch 4. Gotta stop looking at imperfections and look more if the player fits the team as is. Bargs is going to surprise a lot of people.
the only way he will surprise me is if he defends and rebounds.. I won't be holding my breath..
will he have some good scoring games? probably.. but again, how will that surprise anyone?
This is from the coach of the Italian Team in response to Bargs missing the first two games of euro basket,
"It disrupts our technical process by not allowing us to make use of options that only a center with the characteristics of 'il Mago' [Bargnani] can give us.
I think it has been said a number of times, it is important to focus on Bargs strengths. I think he will be a grat addition to the Knicks.
you guys are reaching.... the cliche's are fine, but then there is reality.. you can say that about any player.. "focus on their strenghts".. Ok, so why didn't we do that with novak? camby? why do we complain about amare?
here are two things I know the knicks need... Rebounding and points in the paint.. he provides none of that...
so yea, focus on his strenghts.. which are?
I was focusing on his coaches comments and the fact that he has unique talents for a guy that is 7'1 in shoes.
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:azamatbagatov wrote:All you guys talking up Bargnani's game know damn well you wouldn't have been saying the same things about it 2 months ago when he was wearing a Raptors jersey. The guy is a terribly flawed player who is ok at scoring and putrid in every other option of the game. My opinion on his game hasn't changed in years because his game hasn't changed in years. He wears a knicks uniform now and all of those things go away? He's untapped potential at 28? (His age when the season starts)Please
I cant argue with anything you said. Look we all love the knicks and we all hope Bargnani actually contributes well for us. However liek you said Bargnani does has flaws and he has to make improvements in order to get more positive reaction for the fanbase. I always support the knicks players but they still need to earn it
I think I am actually one of the few that liked Bargs game. djsunyc is his number one fan. I think he would have been perfect here last year also. I followed the Rockets also last year and thought he would be perfect there as well as a stretch 4. Gotta stop looking at imperfections and look more if the player fits the team as is. Bargs is going to surprise a lot of people.
the only way he will surprise me is if he defends and rebounds.. I won't be holding my breath..
will he have some good scoring games? probably.. but again, how will that surprise anyone?
This is from the coach of the Italian Team in response to Bargs missing the first two games of euro basket,
"It disrupts our technical process by not allowing us to make use of options that only a center with the characteristics of 'il Mago' [Bargnani] can give us.
I think it has been said a number of times, it is important to focus on Bargs strengths. I think he will be a grat addition to the Knicks.
you guys are reaching.... the cliche's are fine, but then there is reality.. you can say that about any player.. "focus on their strenghts".. Ok, so why didn't we do that with novak? camby? why do we complain about amare?
here are two things I know the knicks need... Rebounding and points in the paint.. he provides none of that...
so yea, focus on his strenghts.. which are?
I was focusing on his coaches comments and the fact that he has unique talents for a guy that is 7'1 in shoes.
That Italian coach is going to speak in a positive tone about every single one of his players.. what the coach didn't say is that those unique talents hasn't translated to much on the NBA level.. something basketball fans who are not trying to sell this guy as some sort of savior understands...
I never could understand knicks fans... if you are dying of thirst and someone hands you peanut butter instead of water.. you will spin it as it being the creamiest peanut butter on the market... You well know as does everyone else trying to sell this guy, that he is not what the knicks needed... This stretch 4 Bull crap is hilarious... we clearly got our azzes handed to us in the paint and on the board.. and we add a 7'1 soft, non rebounding jump shooter...
I don't care what his italian coach says.. as far as I am concerned that fool is party responsible why bargnani isn't worth a damn for his size... teach this guy how to rebound and play 7'1...
I would not be quoting that coach.....
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:azamatbagatov wrote:All you guys talking up Bargnani's game know damn well you wouldn't have been saying the same things about it 2 months ago when he was wearing a Raptors jersey. The guy is a terribly flawed player who is ok at scoring and putrid in every other option of the game. My opinion on his game hasn't changed in years because his game hasn't changed in years. He wears a knicks uniform now and all of those things go away? He's untapped potential at 28? (His age when the season starts)Please
I cant argue with anything you said. Look we all love the knicks and we all hope Bargnani actually contributes well for us. However liek you said Bargnani does has flaws and he has to make improvements in order to get more positive reaction for the fanbase. I always support the knicks players but they still need to earn it
I think I am actually one of the few that liked Bargs game. djsunyc is his number one fan. I think he would have been perfect here last year also. I followed the Rockets also last year and thought he would be perfect there as well as a stretch 4. Gotta stop looking at imperfections and look more if the player fits the team as is. Bargs is going to surprise a lot of people.
the only way he will surprise me is if he defends and rebounds.. I won't be holding my breath..
will he have some good scoring games? probably.. but again, how will that surprise anyone?
This is from the coach of the Italian Team in response to Bargs missing the first two games of euro basket,
"It disrupts our technical process by not allowing us to make use of options that only a center with the characteristics of 'il Mago' [Bargnani] can give us.
I think it has been said a number of times, it is important to focus on Bargs strengths. I think he will be a grat addition to the Knicks.
you guys are reaching.... the cliche's are fine, but then there is reality.. you can say that about any player.. "focus on their strenghts".. Ok, so why didn't we do that with novak? camby? why do we complain about amare?
here are two things I know the knicks need... Rebounding and points in the paint.. he provides none of that...
so yea, focus on his strenghts.. which are?
I was focusing on his coaches comments and the fact that he has unique talents for a guy that is 7'1 in shoes.
That Italian coach is going to speak in a positive tone about every single one of his players.. what the coach didn't say is that those unique talents hasn't translated to much on the NBA level.. something basketball fans who are not trying to sell this guy as some sort of savior understands...
I never could understand knicks fans... if you are dying of thirst and someone hands you peanut butter instead of water.. you will spin it as it being the creamiest peanut butter on the market... You well know as does everyone else trying to sell this guy, that he is not what the knicks needed... This stretch 4 Bull crap is hilarious... we clearly got our azzes handed to us in the paint and on the board.. and we add a 7'1 soft, non rebounding jump shooter...
I don't care what his italian coach says.. as far as I am concerned that fool is party responsible why bargnani isn't worth a damn for his size... teach this guy how to rebound and play 7'1...
I would not be quoting that coach.....
Actually the coach went onto say he was angry that he wouldn't have Bargs and another player so I don't think it was his attempt to talk up Bargs. Also, not sure why any fan wouldn't care what a coach says about his players unless you don't like his message.
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:azamatbagatov wrote:All you guys talking up Bargnani's game know damn well you wouldn't have been saying the same things about it 2 months ago when he was wearing a Raptors jersey. The guy is a terribly flawed player who is ok at scoring and putrid in every other option of the game. My opinion on his game hasn't changed in years because his game hasn't changed in years. He wears a knicks uniform now and all of those things go away? He's untapped potential at 28? (His age when the season starts)Please
I cant argue with anything you said. Look we all love the knicks and we all hope Bargnani actually contributes well for us. However liek you said Bargnani does has flaws and he has to make improvements in order to get more positive reaction for the fanbase. I always support the knicks players but they still need to earn it
I think I am actually one of the few that liked Bargs game. djsunyc is his number one fan. I think he would have been perfect here last year also. I followed the Rockets also last year and thought he would be perfect there as well as a stretch 4. Gotta stop looking at imperfections and look more if the player fits the team as is. Bargs is going to surprise a lot of people.
the only way he will surprise me is if he defends and rebounds.. I won't be holding my breath..
will he have some good scoring games? probably.. but again, how will that surprise anyone?
This is from the coach of the Italian Team in response to Bargs missing the first two games of euro basket,
"It disrupts our technical process by not allowing us to make use of options that only a center with the characteristics of 'il Mago' [Bargnani] can give us.
I think it has been said a number of times, it is important to focus on Bargs strengths. I think he will be a grat addition to the Knicks.
you guys are reaching.... the cliche's are fine, but then there is reality.. you can say that about any player.. "focus on their strenghts".. Ok, so why didn't we do that with novak? camby? why do we complain about amare?
here are two things I know the knicks need... Rebounding and points in the paint.. he provides none of that...
so yea, focus on his strenghts.. which are?
I was focusing on his coaches comments and the fact that he has unique talents for a guy that is 7'1 in shoes.
That Italian coach is going to speak in a positive tone about every single one of his players.. what the coach didn't say is that those unique talents hasn't translated to much on the NBA level.. something basketball fans who are not trying to sell this guy as some sort of savior understands...
I never could understand knicks fans... if you are dying of thirst and someone hands you peanut butter instead of water.. you will spin it as it being the creamiest peanut butter on the market... You well know as does everyone else trying to sell this guy, that he is not what the knicks needed... This stretch 4 Bull crap is hilarious... we clearly got our azzes handed to us in the paint and on the board.. and we add a 7'1 soft, non rebounding jump shooter...
I don't care what his italian coach says.. as far as I am concerned that fool is party responsible why bargnani isn't worth a damn for his size... teach this guy how to rebound and play 7'1...
I would not be quoting that coach.....
Bargnani is now a savior???
Didn't know that. Thought he was supposed to be our 2nd or 3rd option on offense.
As for rebounding and paint play, isn't that Tyson/Amare/KMart/Peace's job?
Not saying he's his equal, but you wouldn't stick Dirk Nowitzki in the paint, would you?
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
But isn't Bargnani the anti Isiah move? He's only on the books for the next 2 seasons.
We shed salary(Camby and Novak) for 2015 didn't we?!!!
Dam, Isiah Dolan getting fiscally responsible in his old age. 
If Bargs was no so flawed he'd be still a Raptor. Lets not fool ourselves.
And the picks we gave up are can be had again if we ever trade out a player.
Then there are guys like Leslie that get picked up because some teams want to stash euro's.
TKF, I'd have to say you usually make sense but your fighting every move under a false concept that the team looks out into the future using blue chip players.
Tyler is a defective former wunderkind who ignorantly left highschool at 17 and has not found his bluechip status. Greg Oden at the same time was the no. 1 pick and has been an utter disaster! Basically no. 1 picks can be a trecherous place to be in some years. Durant, like Mike JOrdan was the alternative pick (jordan went 3rd behind Hakeem).
Point:
This is the Knicks and this is how your team is going about its business. It will try to trade and/or keep salary cap open to get the starphuch and build around it. No clear way to build a champion in any route you go.
I've thrown in the towel and accept it. Whats the choice? Rant on and on?
YOu think doing so will change anything?
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
yes, meanwhile, back at the ranch, your coach of the year got fired, you won 57 games in the regular season, and yet you bowed out in the first round.
Denver, basketball mecca of the MidWest! Don't forget 1994! And keep polishing all those chips!
being the number one option on a bad team (toronto) lacking scorers from just about every position was truly a situation built to succeed. Of course he didn't look good. He didn't look so bad when he was playing next to Bosch and he was pleasantly compared to Gallo. Also, he didn't even play the entire past season
ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
But isn't Bargnani the anti Isiah move? He's only on the books for the next 2 seasons.
We shed salary(Camby and Novak) for 2015 didn't we?!!!
Dam, Isiah Dolan getting fiscally responsible in his old age.
look at what you're saying-- the fact that we're even talking 2015 means concession.
and two years on bargnani is pure happenstance-- it remains a slapdash lineup of overpaid underachievers. thomas likes to recycle and use retreads-- "welcome to the playoffs!" yuuuuck
Dude is lazy; even said it himself. Doesn't look like he's put on any muscle or worked on his game in the seven years he's been in the league. Yes, he'll have good shooting nights when it will look like his offense is worth his lack of contribution everywhere else. But, his nature is not changing because of the change in address. Is he worth the price? Sure, especially because his contract isn't long. Does he move us closer to a championship? Insignificant, IMO.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
Trade was a long time ago. Denver and knicks long moved on.
Nothing on TV watching Denver and see how out old friends are doing. Other than that, moved on.
Want to see CJ leslie dunk in traffic, hang 22 in his 10th game and we can lament how we can't afford to resign him!
dk7th wrote:look at what you're saying-- the fact that we're even talking 2015 means concession.
no it doesn't, means organization may be trying to upgrade now and also look towards future at same time, nothing more nothing less.
dk7th wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
But isn't Bargnani the anti Isiah move? He's only on the books for the next 2 seasons.
We shed salary(Camby and Novak) for 2015 didn't we?!!!
Dam, Isiah Dolan getting fiscally responsible in his old age.
look at what you're saying-- the fact that we're even talking 2015 means concession.
and two years on bargnani is pure happenstance-- it remains a slapdash lineup of overpaid underachievers. thomas likes to recycle and use retreads-- "welcome to the playoffs!" yuuuuck
One cannot look ahead while still being competitive? Isn't that a good thing to have? Isn't that what Miami, LA, and a bunch of other really good teams are doing too?
To each to their own, I guess.
I like finally making the playoffs and at least having a chance to advance now.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
Interesting. Had nothing to do with the cba, upcoming lockout and two teams losing their franchise players for nothing? Does he make all of his moves based on his players alleged character faults or are they market based and goal oriented?
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
Didn't the godly Ujiri trade Afflalo and a first rounder for nothing? (Iggy walked)
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:people want to ignore the fact that Ujiri is the raptors GM and this was essentially his first move, dumping yet another overpaid and inefficient tweener on the knicks.
and got 3 picks out of it.. wow!
The man is brilliant. Kind of casts doubt on the theory that he would have allowed Carmelo to become a free agent without getting anything for him though.
what it shows is that ujiri played on carmelo's "money comes first" approach combined with an all-too-willing trade partner in isaiah dolan.
with bargnani it was a simple matter of preying upon a knicks franchise that increasingly looks like it is making isaiah thomas-like moves.
where there's smoke there's fire.
Interesting. Had nothing to do with the cba, upcoming lockout and two teams losing their franchise players for nothing? Does he make all of his moves based on his players alleged character faults or are they market based and goal oriented?
cba/lockout = melo's "money comes first" approach so you are practicing misdirection here. why bother... you know i am just going to check you.
"denver losing it's franchise player for nothing" implies only one thing virtually to the exclusion of all else: the knicks had absolute leverage in their dealings with denver. in fact so long as walsh was in control of the decision making he had ujiri over a barrel. the reason why ujiri became a genius is because dolan intervened, and with every dolan move there is a whiff of thomas. only dolan could manage to wrest defeat from the jaws of victory.
finally, bargnani is not a franchise player so you're spouting a falsehood here.
ujiri makes his decisions based more on character than dolan or thomas does, yes. so yes, we can infer that ujiri does not have high opinions on either melo or bargnani. character profiling is becoming increasingly important to team building, along with advanced metrics. neither bargnani nor melo are advanced metric players either. dolan is a lowlife and is intimidated by people with character, hence bye-bye walsh.
Serious question: for how many more years will people complain about the Melo trade?
martin wrote:dk7th wrote:look at what you're saying-- the fact that we're even talking 2015 means concession.
no it doesn't, means organization may be trying to upgrade now and also look towards future at same time, nothing more nothing less.
so you believe bargnani is an "upgrade" and i would like to hear your reasons how he is an upgrade.
i'll tell you why he isn't:
1)he doesn't defend.
2)he is below average in terms of efficiency. his best season he shot 56%TS which is just <meh> and his career average is 53.3% which is just plain bad no two ways about it.
3)he is selfish. his usage rate to assist rate (the percentage of time assists are made to teammates while he is on the floor) is an abomination-- 3.4:1, worse even than melo's. what were the complaints last season? the offense stagnated. yet we are expected to see a cohesive offense when he is on the floor or god help us when he and melo are on the floor together. it is unrealistic to believe there will be a better offense especially with woodson as coach of these two.
all the numbers back this up.
when you don't adequately defend, don't score efficiently, and don't know how to share the ball let alone make plays for others it is a recipe for underachievement. not even nash or paul or rondo would be able to make sense of this situation.
stoudemire's year as the main guy-- before being kicked to the curb-- his TS% dropped to a career low 56.5 which is far from elite. felton's scrubby pick and roll game has a lot to do with this but so was stoudemire's asinine one-on-three approach.
melo's career average TS% is a very sub-standard 54.5
bargnani's career average TS% as mentioned is 53.3
