Knicks · Fire Woodson already!! (page 11)
franco12 wrote:lets start by eliminating the switching on defense- I think that encourages players to be lazy on defense- Melo is definitely guilty here.Lets run something other than an iso. And until JR Smith regains form, he sits on the bench. Shump and THJ both provide better effort, shot selection, energy and smarts than he is providing.
Next time Melo jacks a shot when confronted with a double team, call a time out, show him what he did wrong, and sit him. Not for the whole game - but just long enough that he understands you would rather lose the game playing the right way than win on Iso-Man Heroics.
Look, I don't expect Melo to be Magic Johnson with the passing, but he has to learn to identify the double team and pass the friggin ball already.
Lastly, I'd challenge my players to be in the offensive end with 20 seconds or some similarly aggressive number on the shot clock. I'd fine those who failed, and split that money up to those who succeeded.
LMAO a coach can't just snap his fingers and fine players. Coach Woody doesn't like your effort, here take a 50k fine, I'm sure players would love that!
nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.
Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
BlueSeats wrote:nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
so true.. good to see you back bro!
tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
so true.. good to see you back bro!
Thanks man. I admire the energy you've sustained in fighting the good fight. I don't know how you do it, but it's been a pleasure watching you work, even when I didn't always agree. Stay strong mate.
BlueSeats wrote:tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
so true.. good to see you back bro!
Thanks man. I admire the energy you've sustained in fighting the good fight. I don't know how you do it, but it's been a pleasure watching you work, even when I didn't always agree. Stay strong mate.
thanks man... and that is what I always enjoyed... we don't have to always agree, but respect one another.. in the end, we all want the team to do well and win..
right now, this mess is at an all time low... the best news so far is that carmelo wants to leave..
Thank god!!
tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
so true.. good to see you back bro!
Thanks man. I admire the energy you've sustained in fighting the good fight. I don't know how you do it, but it's been a pleasure watching you work, even when I didn't always agree. Stay strong mate.
thanks man... and that is what I always enjoyed... we don't have to always agree, but respect one another.. in the end, we all want the team to do well and win..
right now, this mess is at an all time low... the best news so far is that carmelo wants to leave..
Thank god!!
We are coming off our best season in over a decade and have unlimited cap space coming up in 1 1/2 years. This is nowhere near an all time low. This is nothing like the mid 2000s. We are still talking about just 16 games.
Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:tkf wrote:BlueSeats wrote:nixluva wrote:Who knows what Herb would do at this point. He's been here for a boatload of different coaches. I bet he has his own ideas now that would in fact be much different than Woodson and might actually surprise people. You just never know in a situation like this. Who has more experience in terms of watching other coaches and picking up things and understanding the NY thing in every aspect? It's not like it would hurt to let him try.Herb can't be fired and can't be promoted, he's the locker room monitor. He stays exactly where he is, collecting information and passing it to Allan Houston and the higher ups. However sweet a guy he is, he's just a conduit. He'd have zero credibility with those below.
Woody has to go, but I don't see a mid-season move doing much. The problem is the players don't like each other and there's no one to help make peace. Too many people in the organization have tainted karma. Battlefields have been drawn protecting Melo and the Smith Bros. Everyone else are fodder and rentals. They wont fight for their leaders if they see them as corrupt.
It's not that Woodson doesn't know who this team is, it's that he does know; beyond not having an identity, collectively they're without heart, will or soul. They're not in it together. He can't change this. No coach can. The ship be sinking. This he knows.
so true.. good to see you back bro!
Thanks man. I admire the energy you've sustained in fighting the good fight. I don't know how you do it, but it's been a pleasure watching you work, even when I didn't always agree. Stay strong mate.
thanks man... and that is what I always enjoyed... we don't have to always agree, but respect one another.. in the end, we all want the team to do well and win..
right now, this mess is at an all time low... the best news so far is that carmelo wants to leave..
Thank god!!
We are coming off our best season in over a decade and have unlimited cap space coming up in 1 1/2 years. This is nowhere near an all time low. This is nothing like the mid 2000s. We are still talking about just 16 games.
This feels like damning with faint praise.
misterearl wrote:Dk7th - knicks1248 claims most of the Knicks are giving half effort.Care to expand on how the thieving Carmelo is dragging the Knicks into Bolivian by himself?
Or list the names of players who are not giving a damn other than Beno, Shumpert and Pablo?
I miss Mozgov, Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer and the two first round picks.
Being lazy is the same as not being focus not playing with the energy your suppose to bring.
I watch these guys(shumpert, jr, amare, pablo, and artest specifically) play like they don't give a fck for the most part.
I put that on melo and woody, yeah melo is playing hard, but he's also making the game hard for everybody. Woodson plays melo so much that by the 4th he's punch drunk, instead of melo setting up teammates he's still shooting with dead legs..
Teammates constantly throw him the ball because their confidence and rhythm is on edge, he has all the rhythm cause he takes all the shots, so here take the damn ball and shoot
Look at the close games we lost, zero poise coming down the stretch and the star player trust none of his teammates, so they play tight and tense and other times flat and careless..
Bitch move
anrst wrote:when did he say that? media gave him heat for the stupid 4q lineup?
According to [url="https://twitter.com/Schmeelk"]this guy[/url] it was during a radio spot.
“Listen, Mike Woodson, I believe I have my numbers right, was 18-6 when he took over for Mike D’Antoni,” the former Knicks coach said on “The Mike Lupica Show” on ESPN New York 98.7 FM. “Then he won a division title last year. Then they made some roster moves, had some injuries and so now they are starting Kenyon Martin, Andrea Bargnani, [Carmelo] Anthony, [Raymond] Felton and [Iman] Shumpert. That is the strength of their team.
“Their depth, with some of these injuries, is non-existent,”
“Listen this isn’t a coaching issue right now. This is a roster issue. ... The last problem the Knicks have -- the very last problem -- is a coaching issue. Mike Woodson is an outstanding basketball coach who has done an outstanding job. So how can a guy that went from brilliant, be on the proverbial hot seat 16 games into the next season?”
“To a point [the Knicks can turn things around], they can make the playoffs. But it is a limited roster, very limited roster, with guys who are on the downside of their career. To do it, [Tyson] Chandler has to come back and be really good."
“Carmelo Anthony has to get really efficient offensively and some of the guys who are really struggling shooting the ball are going to have to spread the floor for Anthony so he has enough room to do his work. And they are going to have to shoot the three-point shot a lot better.”
- Jeff Van Gundy
misterearl wrote:What He Said (bootleg alert)“Listen, Mike Woodson, I believe I have my numbers right, was 18-6 when he took over for Mike D’Antoni,” the former Knicks coach said on “The Mike Lupica Show” on ESPN New York 98.7 FM. “Then he won a division title last year. Then they made some roster moves, had some injuries and so now they are starting Kenyon Martin, Andrea Bargnani, [Carmelo] Anthony, [Raymond] Felton and [Iman] Shumpert. That is the strength of their team.
“Their depth, with some of these injuries, is non-existent,”
“Listen this isn’t a coaching issue right now. This is a roster issue. ... The last problem the Knicks have -- the very last problem -- is a coaching issue. Mike Woodson is an outstanding basketball coach who has done an outstanding job. So how can a guy that went from brilliant, be on the proverbial hot seat 16 games into the next season?”
“To a point [the Knicks can turn things around], they can make the playoffs. But it is a limited roster, very limited roster, with guys who are on the downside of their career. To do it, [Tyson] Chandler has to come back and be really good."
“Carmelo Anthony has to get really efficient offensively and some of the guys who are really struggling shooting the ball are going to have to spread the floor for Anthony so he has enough room to do his work. And they are going to have to shoot the three-point shot a lot better.”
- Jeff Van Gundy
Yea,
that's exactly the stuff you have to stay about a guy that's about to get fired but you like the guy as a friend/person
The Players are doing what Woody coached them to do on defense and if they aren't doing what he's asking that still is on him. How long is he gonna let them keep making the same dumb mistakes and why didn't they come out of camp knowing what the heck to do? Why hasn't Woody tried some changes in the defensive scheme since clearly this isn't working? Can't just let Woody off the hook when the team has only won 1 home game. How do you explain that kind of futility?
“The absolute most important position on any professional team is the people in charge of picking the players. They have to be talented enough and fit together and have an intangible. It’s a hard job but an important job. The last thing the Knicks have is a coaching issue.”
- Jeff Van Gundy
Who will buy the groceries?
Everything else is moot.
Harvey Araton it seems, lives to tweak the Knicks. Somehow he glosses over the fact that the Nyets were hyped as the better team, that the aging triumvirate of Garnett, Pierce and Terry had somehow shifted the power paradigm. Meanwhile the Knicks hardly made a peep in free-agency, Bargnani being the only real addition to the team, while the team lost size on the frontline.
The Knicks then lost Tyson Chandler to injury. But somehow we're supposed to believe or accept that both teams are equally underachieving? The Knicks are bad, primarily defensively, but also offensively challenged. Underachieving... hardly, undermanned is more like it.
reader response to Harvey Araton NYTimes piece
nixluva wrote:I'm so tired of this crap about the roster. Yeah we know it's not a great roster. It wasn't a great roster last year either!!! What GREAT players did we lose from last year??? This is such BS. Woody has flat sucked since Training camp and it just carried over into the season. He better try something new cuz from what i've seen his offense and defense has been awful. Someone tell me just what this offense is supposed to be anyway? No one knows including the players. The rotations suck, the fact that he's been running Melo into the ground isn't good either. The way he handled Shump and given so much slack to JR is ridiculous. I can go on and on listing all the dumb things Woody has done so far. To try and pass this off on the roster is just LAME!The Players are doing what Woody coached them to do on defense and if they aren't doing what he's asking that still is on him. How long is he gonna let them keep making the same dumb mistakes and why didn't they come out of camp knowing what the heck to do? Why hasn't Woody tried some changes in the defensive scheme since clearly this isn't working? Can't just let Woody off the hook when the team has only won 1 home game. How do you explain that kind of futility?
This is where i stand a well. This is essentially the same roster that won 54 games last year. So it's either on the coach or on the injury to Chandler, or both. Not sure why Woodson went away from what worked last season. He has the 3 PGs he needs and the big forwards. All key components from last year were replaced. Bargnani replaced Copeland, Metta replaced Novak, and Udrih replaced Kidd. The makeup of the roster is the same, yet the team is being coached much different. We will see what happens when Tyson comes back, but this falls squarely on the coach.
No, this is not essentially the same roster. You do NOT plug and play people, or relationships on the court. This is not fantasy league. Not trading cards. People. Who are all different. Change just one component and the change in skill set affects how athletes relate.
Nor is it the same year or the same league of competition.
Essentially, your theory is more bogus than JR Smith, Martin, Stoudemire and Felton playing while injured.
More bogus than signing Chris Smith.
nixluva wrote:I'm so tired of this crap about the roster. Yeah we know it's not a great roster. It wasn't a great roster last year either!!! What GREAT players did we lose from last year??? This is such BS. Woody has flat sucked since Training camp and it just carried over into the season. He better try something new cuz from what i've seen his offense and defense has been awful. Someone tell me just what this offense is supposed to be anyway? No one knows including the players. The rotations suck, the fact that he's been running Melo into the ground isn't good either. The way he handled Shump and given so much slack to JR is ridiculous. I can go on and on listing all the dumb things Woody has done so far. To try and pass this off on the roster is just LAME!The Players are doing what Woody coached them to do on defense and if they aren't doing what he's asking that still is on him. How long is he gonna let them keep making the same dumb mistakes and why didn't they come out of camp knowing what the heck to do? Why hasn't Woody tried some changes in the defensive scheme since clearly this isn't working? Can't just let Woody off the hook when the team has only won 1 home game. How do you explain that kind of futility?
You may as well be inside my head because I feel the exact same way.
The fact that a true back up big was never addressed even after Tyson's ass whopping against Indy still boggles my mind.
misterearl wrote:Knixkix - Camby, Thomas, Sheed, Kidd, Brewer, Copeland...No, this is not essentially the same roster. You do NOT plug and play people, or relationships on the court. This is not fantasy league. Not trading cards. People. Who are all different. Change just one component and the change in skill set affects how athletes relate.
Nor is it the same year or the same league of competition.
Essentially, your theory is more bogus than JR Smith, Martin, Stoudemire and Felton playing while injured.
More bogus than signing Chris Smith.
If you are counting guys like Camby, Thomas, and Sheed, you must refer to their locker room presence, but the fact is they played too few games to make a basketball impact besides a few games here and there. From a basketball standpoint, this is a similar roster with a similar makeup. From a leadership standpoint, it's clearly different.