Knicks · Zach Lowe on Shumpert (page 1)

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/1007...

Shumpert may be dead, or at least missing, by the time you read this, having had the gall to question Carmelo Anthony's horrid defense against the Pelicans on Sunday. Iman: If you're reading this from a public library in Alaska somewhere, wearing a fake beard and glasses, please be well.

Shumpert has stalled out as a Knick. You could go entire 10-minute spans without even noticing he's on the floor, especially since he cut his delightful high flattop — probably because some member of James Dolan's band found it distasteful.

Shumpert has used 12.7 percent of New York's possessions this season. That is almost unfathomable for a perimeter player who can, you know, dribble the basketball. Over the last two seasons, only 14 guys have averaged at least 25 minutes per game while using so few of their team's possessions. Most of them are big men with zero range (DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, the ghost of Kendrick Perkins) or catch-and-shoot types on loaded teams (Jared Dudley this season, Jason Kidd last season, Thabo Sefolosha in both).

Basically, Shumpert never gets the ball. He touches the rock just 1.4 times per minute on the floor, according to SportVu tracking data.

Look: Shumpert isn't an ace pick-and-roll guy. He's uncomfortable on the play, prone to wild passes, and capable mostly of only the simplest stuff. He's been a bit of a ball-stopper when he's gotten the ball this season, dancing with it before hoisting a long 2-point jumper.3

But, man, you long to see this guy in a different offense. This season's Knicks are dreadful to watch. No team devotes a higher share of possessions to isolation plays, and when the ball sticks with Anthony or J.R. Smith, defenses can stop and set themselves. When the ball gets to Shumpert, his defender is usually right there, with no ground to cover, perfectly balanced in Shumpert's grill.

And that's a shame, because Shumpert has shown he can attack a defender scrambling to close out on him as he catches the ball. It's hard for defenders rushing at shooters to stop their momentum, and Shumpert can drive by them, slice into gaps, and either score or kick the ball elsewhere. He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

He's overrated as a defender. He fouls a ton, and he ball-watches, making him prone to back-door cuts along the baseline. He has played a role in the endless breakdowns in switching and communication that have plagued the Knicks. But he's feisty, and the foundation is there, waiting for a team who can teach better habits.

A fair assessment. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Shumpert does get traded so he doesn't go down with the rest of this sinking ship. Going to an honest to god professional NBA team with competent coaches and front office would do wonders for him. I wonder if San Antonio would be interested?

It's the Woodson-Melo-JR trio effect

I disagree with his point that Shumpert can blow by defenders closing out on a potential shot, Shumpert is simply an abysmal finisher in the half court. People confuse his dunking ability with finishing at the rim. Shumpert essentially only scores lay-ups and dunks when he's wide open.

VCoug wrote:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/1007...

Shumpert may be dead, or at least missing, by the time you read this, having had the gall to question Carmelo Anthony's horrid defense against the Pelicans on Sunday. Iman: If you're reading this from a public library in Alaska somewhere, wearing a fake beard and glasses, please be well.

Shumpert has stalled out as a Knick. You could go entire 10-minute spans without even noticing he's on the floor, especially since he cut his delightful high flattop — probably because some member of James Dolan's band found it distasteful.

Shumpert has used 12.7 percent of New York's possessions this season. That is almost unfathomable for a perimeter player who can, you know, dribble the basketball. Over the last two seasons, only 14 guys have averaged at least 25 minutes per game while using so few of their team's possessions. Most of them are big men with zero range (DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, the ghost of Kendrick Perkins) or catch-and-shoot types on loaded teams (Jared Dudley this season, Jason Kidd last season, Thabo Sefolosha in both).

Basically, Shumpert never gets the ball. He touches the rock just 1.4 times per minute on the floor, according to SportVu tracking data.

Look: Shumpert isn't an ace pick-and-roll guy. He's uncomfortable on the play, prone to wild passes, and capable mostly of only the simplest stuff. He's been a bit of a ball-stopper when he's gotten the ball this season, dancing with it before hoisting a long 2-point jumper.3But, man, you long to see this guy in a different offense. This season's Knicks are dreadful to watch. No team devotes a higher share of possessions to isolation plays, and when the ball sticks with Anthony or J.R. Smith, defenses can stop and set themselves. When the ball gets to Shumpert, his defender is usually right there, with no ground to cover, perfectly balanced in Shumpert's grill.

And that's a shame, because Shumpert has shown he can attack a defender scrambling to close out on him as he catches the ball. It's hard for defenders rushing at shooters to stop their momentum, and Shumpert can drive by them, slice into gaps, and either score or kick the ball elsewhere. He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

He's overrated as a defender. He fouls a ton, and he ball-watches, making him prone to back-door cuts along the baseline. He has played a role in the endless breakdowns in switching and communication that have plagued the Knicks. But he's feisty, and the foundation is there, waiting for a team who can teach better habits.

A fair assessment. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Shumpert does get traded so he doesn't go down with the rest of this sinking ship. Going to an honest to god professional NBA team with competent coaches and front office would do wonders for him. I wonder if San Antonio would be interested?

I highlighted the important part of the article -- the part that tells you Shump has few offensive skills, makes poor decisions and has a low b-ball IQ.

LivingLegend wrote:

VCoug wrote:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/1007...

Shumpert may be dead, or at least missing, by the time you read this, having had the gall to question Carmelo Anthony's horrid defense against the Pelicans on Sunday. Iman: If you're reading this from a public library in Alaska somewhere, wearing a fake beard and glasses, please be well.

Shumpert has stalled out as a Knick. You could go entire 10-minute spans without even noticing he's on the floor, especially since he cut his delightful high flattop — probably because some member of James Dolan's band found it distasteful.

Shumpert has used 12.7 percent of New York's possessions this season. That is almost unfathomable for a perimeter player who can, you know, dribble the basketball. Over the last two seasons, only 14 guys have averaged at least 25 minutes per game while using so few of their team's possessions. Most of them are big men with zero range (DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, the ghost of Kendrick Perkins) or catch-and-shoot types on loaded teams (Jared Dudley this season, Jason Kidd last season, Thabo Sefolosha in both).

Basically, Shumpert never gets the ball. He touches the rock just 1.4 times per minute on the floor, according to SportVu tracking data.

Look: Shumpert isn't an ace pick-and-roll guy. He's uncomfortable on the play, prone to wild passes, and capable mostly of only the simplest stuff. He's been a bit of a ball-stopper when he's gotten the ball this season, dancing with it before hoisting a long 2-point jumper.3But, man, you long to see this guy in a different offense. This season's Knicks are dreadful to watch. No team devotes a higher share of possessions to isolation plays, and when the ball sticks with Anthony or J.R. Smith, defenses can stop and set themselves. When the ball gets to Shumpert, his defender is usually right there, with no ground to cover, perfectly balanced in Shumpert's grill.

And that's a shame, because Shumpert has shown he can attack a defender scrambling to close out on him as he catches the ball. It's hard for defenders rushing at shooters to stop their momentum, and Shumpert can drive by them, slice into gaps, and either score or kick the ball elsewhere. He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

He's overrated as a defender. He fouls a ton, and he ball-watches, making him prone to back-door cuts along the baseline. He has played a role in the endless breakdowns in switching and communication that have plagued the Knicks. But he's feisty, and the foundation is there, waiting for a team who can teach better habits.

A fair assessment. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Shumpert does get traded so he doesn't go down with the rest of this sinking ship. Going to an honest to god professional NBA team with competent coaches and front office would do wonders for him. I wonder if San Antonio would be interested?

I highlighted the important part of the article -- the part that tells you Shump has few offensive skills, makes poor decisions and has a low b-ball IQ.

Yeah, I've been saying that since we drafted him three years ago. He's a nice role player but the expectations put on him by some Knicks fans (next Wade, next Kobe, mini-Jordan) were completely out of proportion to his ability. Still, I believe he's better than he's shown so far this year but he needs real coaching and training to bring out his full potential.

Shump is a system player, on a team dominated by ISO players. Melo and JR's ISO plays are like cancer for system players. Basically, you can't cut when Melo gets the ball, cause he's usually trying to attack the rim, so you don't want to bring you man to him. Then after expecting the ball during mutiple double teams, just to watch Melo or JR force up a contested shot. You finally get the ball, and throw up a brick....And get yelled at by Melo, JR and Woody for not making the shot (why Novak and Copeland was so valuable).

I believe Woody, Melo and JR are going down together. Something has to give. I say we do what Dallas did with Hershel Walker. Dangle Melo for a potential block buster trade, where somebody gives up the farm. Hershel was a great player at that time, but after that trade, Dallas won multiple championships.

Melo is great at what he does. He's also difficult to build around. JR is solid, but better in an offensive system with set plays. Woody is a fine coach, just doesn't have the offensive head coaching IQ needed for ISO dominated diva's like Melo and JR.

He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

This is the part that bothers me. He's looked very productive in the past. He's regressing on this rudderless team.

Shumpert isnt that good.

We have been waiting for him to make the leap for awhile now.

I would take Wilson Chandler over Shumpert right now. Wilson never complained.

ApophisADL wrote:Shumpert isnt that good.

We have been waiting for him to make the leap for awhile now.

I would take Wilson Chandler over Shumpert right now. Wilson never complained.

I'm all for respecting the hierarchy when it is warranted,

but Shump has a brain for himself and I commend his speaking out and telling Melo how it is,

Go Shump

At least MDA was trying to expand his game. I know people weren't happy about MDA trying to get him to run some point but they misunderstood the goal. To get Shump more involved in plays and to learn the game. It was only a part of his minutes but in time it would help him as a player. Hard to get a feel if u never touch the ball. There's a method to the madness of an offensive coach like MDA. Just watch a Laker game and see how good the guards all look playing for him and how that is helping the bigs too. Shump needs a new team to grow. He ain't doin it here.

IronWillGiroud wrote:

ApophisADL wrote:Shumpert isnt that good.

We have been waiting for him to make the leap for awhile now.

I would take Wilson Chandler over Shumpert right now. Wilson never complained.

I'm all for respecting the hierarchy when it is warranted,

but Shump has a brain for himself and I commend his speaking out and telling Melo how it is,

Go Shump

I havent seen Shumpert's lock down D yet this year plus he had knee surgery over the summer.

Guys were hyping him as a possible future PG. Plus Shumpert has difficulty finishing and shooting. So we have a SG who cant shoot.

Dude needs to let his game do the talking.

ApophisADL wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

ApophisADL wrote:Shumpert isnt that good.

We have been waiting for him to make the leap for awhile now.

I would take Wilson Chandler over Shumpert right now. Wilson never complained.

I'm all for respecting the hierarchy when it is warranted,

but Shump has a brain for himself and I commend his speaking out and telling Melo how it is,

Go Shump

I havent seen Shumpert's lock down D yet this year plus he had knee surgery over the summer.

Guys were hyping him as a possible future PG. Plus Shumpert has difficulty finishing and shooting. So we have a SG who cant shoot.

Dude needs to let his game do the talking.

Pfft,

of all the guys on the team, last man I would heap the shit on is Shump,

not saying you're wrong, but Shump is one of the few guys this year that is worthy of the Knicks jersey

blkexec wrote:Shump is a system player, on a team dominated by ISO players. Melo and JR's ISO plays are like cancer for system players. Basically, you can't cut when Melo gets the ball, cause he's usually trying to attack the rim, so you don't want to bring you man to him. Then after expecting the ball during mutiple double teams, just to watch Melo or JR force up a contested shot. You finally get the ball, and throw up a brick....And get yelled at by Melo, JR and Woody for not making the shot (why Novak and Copeland was so valuable).

I believe Woody, Melo and JR are going down together. Something has to give. I say we do what Dallas did with Hershel Walker. Dangle Melo for a potential block buster trade, where somebody gives up the farm. Hershel was a great player at that time, but after that trade, Dallas won multiple championships.

Melo is great at what he does. He's also difficult to build around. JR is solid, but better in an offensive system with set plays. Woody is a fine coach, just doesn't have the offensive head coaching IQ needed for ISO dominated diva's like Melo and JR.

I heard the same about Landry Fields.

I actually like the fact that Melo isn't pouting and throwing his teammates under the bus.

He needs a dynamic PG to play with. Lin was the perfect backcourt mate for Shump. Too bad.

funny how everyone thought before training camp that the development of shumpert was a key to the season

then training camp arrives and the organizations been doing everything it can to ensure he doesn't develop

bizzaro is the new normal.

If MDA was here Shumpert would be giving us 15ppg, 8rebs and2 steals. He would be another Josh Howard type.

Knicks not only dont develop players, they find ways to make them worse.

This CAA gestapo needs to be busted up

NYKBocker wrote:He needs a dynamic PG to play with. Lin was the perfect backcourt mate for Shump. Too bad.

Great point. Felton doesn't cut it. You never see them run the floor together like Shump did with Lin. It doesn't take a genius to see the regression under Felton and woodson

Sh..t goes to sh..t and gold goes to gold.
Shrump must go to get to the right place.

why oh why did I purchase an official orange Shump jersey...

SupremeCommander wrote:why oh why did I purchase an official orange Shump jersey...

At least you didn't buy a Cadillac Williams jersey

VCoug wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VCoug wrote:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/1007...

Shumpert may be dead, or at least missing, by the time you read this, having had the gall to question Carmelo Anthony's horrid defense against the Pelicans on Sunday. Iman: If you're reading this from a public library in Alaska somewhere, wearing a fake beard and glasses, please be well.

Shumpert has stalled out as a Knick. You could go entire 10-minute spans without even noticing he's on the floor, especially since he cut his delightful high flattop — probably because some member of James Dolan's band found it distasteful.

Shumpert has used 12.7 percent of New York's possessions this season. That is almost unfathomable for a perimeter player who can, you know, dribble the basketball. Over the last two seasons, only 14 guys have averaged at least 25 minutes per game while using so few of their team's possessions. Most of them are big men with zero range (DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, the ghost of Kendrick Perkins) or catch-and-shoot types on loaded teams (Jared Dudley this season, Jason Kidd last season, Thabo Sefolosha in both).

Basically, Shumpert never gets the ball. He touches the rock just 1.4 times per minute on the floor, according to SportVu tracking data.

Look: Shumpert isn't an ace pick-and-roll guy. He's uncomfortable on the play, prone to wild passes, and capable mostly of only the simplest stuff. He's been a bit of a ball-stopper when he's gotten the ball this season, dancing with it before hoisting a long 2-point jumper.3But, man, you long to see this guy in a different offense. This season's Knicks are dreadful to watch. No team devotes a higher share of possessions to isolation plays, and when the ball sticks with Anthony or J.R. Smith, defenses can stop and set themselves. When the ball gets to Shumpert, his defender is usually right there, with no ground to cover, perfectly balanced in Shumpert's grill.

And that's a shame, because Shumpert has shown he can attack a defender scrambling to close out on him as he catches the ball. It's hard for defenders rushing at shooters to stop their momentum, and Shumpert can drive by them, slice into gaps, and either score or kick the ball elsewhere. He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

He's overrated as a defender. He fouls a ton, and he ball-watches, making him prone to back-door cuts along the baseline. He has played a role in the endless breakdowns in switching and communication that have plagued the Knicks. But he's feisty, and the foundation is there, waiting for a team who can teach better habits.

A fair assessment. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Shumpert does get traded so he doesn't go down with the rest of this sinking ship. Going to an honest to god professional NBA team with competent coaches and front office would do wonders for him. I wonder if San Antonio would be interested?

I highlighted the important part of the article -- the part that tells you Shump has few offensive skills, makes poor decisions and has a low b-ball IQ.

Yeah, I've been saying that since we drafted him three years ago. He's a nice role player but the expectations put on him by some Knicks fans (next Wade, next Kobe, mini-Jordan) were completely out of proportion to his ability. Still, I believe he's better than he's shown so far this year but he needs real coaching and training to bring out his full potential.

That also was some of the criticism of him coming out of college. Shump was seen as a tremendous athlete and a very good defender that stopped the ball and made poor decisions on offense.