VCoug wrote:Finestrg wrote:I dunno about this at all. Just screams out 'lateral move.' Just the thought of losing anymore picks and/or adding more salary, depending on the scope of this deal, makes my skin crawl. And to make this move w/o even giving the kid Murry any kind of a chance at all to see if he could help first is just straight up dumb. Then there's the FACTOID that there are a good 3-4 solid FA PGs we could pick up right now FOR NOTHING that would be just as good as Lowry, more exciting and BETTER probably. I just can't comprehend how we go about our business at all.
Who are these free agents that are better than Lowry? And Lowry is in the last year of his contract so we wouldn't be adding salary past this season.
Pierre Jackson and Seth Curry -- I'd take my chances with both of those guys over Lowry. Complete no-brainer if there ever was one. They're both dominating the hell outta the DL and would do well here. The 1st good game either guy had, it would blow the lid right off the Garden Linsanity style. Book it. This Pierre Jackson just put up a 43 pt game for Idaho! And his team is undefeated btw. 5-0...And now we're hearing the Knicks will include a 1st round pick to get this done. WHAT???!!? Please dear God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Learn from you mistakes, Christ almighty!!!!!! When does it end? No more picks!!! Definitely not for Kyle Lowry -- he's a middle-of-the-road NBA PG, on par with a healthy Raymond Felton when you get right down to it....Investigate signing Jeremy Pargo or Curtis Jerrells who may be playing in Europe at the moment. Who else -- lemme see -- call up Houston and see what the price would be for Isaiah Canaan. Another youngster who's really come on of late in the DL for Houston's affilate...I betcha it would be less than what Ujiri's asking for Lowry. And maybe we could even expand a deal to include Amar'e -- probably not but you never know. Gotta look at each teams' salary structure to get a better idea. STAT's playing better now though, they're going for it all and there may have been prior interest. Still PGs out there after this -- where's Sherron Collins these days? Talented PG who won it all at Kansas in college. I don't love Kendall Marshall but he has played well in the DL. Rodrigue Beaubois? Not a pure point but the man's talented and available--actually showed some nice budding PG skills while in Dallas.. Reinvestigate signing Bobby Brown -- doesn't the Chinese season end early? Get creative here...Kyle Lowry's not Magic Johnson, come on. Not a guy you surrender you last couple of tangible future assets for. He'd be a lateral move. I'd pass on this -- look for help elsewhere, that's the ticket for us right now. And then do we really bring back Steve Novak and his salary in a deal IN ADDITION to giving up a future 1st round pick? Come on, man. This is ridiculous. I can see why we're interested, OK, but once we heard the price, hang up the damn phone and go sign Pierre Jackson! I mean what are we talking about here? I don't know how much better they think Kyle Lowry would make us -- and to give up assets (Shumpert? THJ? a pick?) and possibly add salary to boot - Steve Novak? GTFOH is right!
I'd rather target Dragic if your giving up all that. Just think this through:
Claims that the Nets are interested: invented to push Dolans buttons- they have NOTHING to trade and where the heck would he play?! They have Deron, Livingston, Jet, and JJ.
Claims Warriors are interested: that would make him a backup. He's a FA and wants to be a starter, so he'd walk. Plus why would they send a valuable player for that?
So other supposedly interested teams are only looking at him as a back up- that means their not willing to give up the equivalent of 2 firsts. We're bargaining against ourselves again and being played.
smackeddog wrote:I'd rather target Dragic if your giving up all that. Just think this through:Claims that the Nets are interested: invented to push Dolans buttons- they have NOTHING to trade and where the heck would he play?! They have Deron, Livingston, Jet, and JJ.
Claims Warriors are interested: that would make him a backup. He's a FA and wants to be a starter, so he'd walk. Plus why would they send a valuable player for that?
So other supposedly interested teams are only looking at him as a back up- that means their not willing to give up the equivalent of 2 firsts. We're bargaining against ourselves again and being played.
Agreed.
Clean wrote:OMG he is trying to do it AGAIN!
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 4m
And at last report, Toronto was said to be seeking TWO of the following three: Shumpert, Hardaway Jr., Future First. A bit pricey, I'd say
Knicks need to walk away from any deal close to that. I like Lowry but in addition to expiring at the end of the season, the guy has struggled to stay healthy. The Knicks either need to stay the course or revisit this deal later when the raps are going to get nothing for Lowry. My guess is Lowry would come to the Knicks for mid level next off season. Also, I agree with Smack, make a run at Dragic if you are giving up the farm. No way hardaway or a 1st rounder should be moved for a 5month rental.
Lol @ everyone here who wants to give Ujiri yet another 1st round pick for a player that won't help us win a title and can either walk at the end of the year or torpedo our 2015 cap space. Dudes will never ever learn. We as a fanbase deserve this franchise if we are ok with this.
Breaking News: Knicks trade Raymond Felton, Tim Hardaway Jr, the right to swap first round picks picks in 2015 and 2017 and their 2018 first rounder for Raptors' guard Kyle Lowry
smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:OMG he is trying to do it AGAIN!
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 4m
And at last report, Toronto was said to be seeking TWO of the following three: Shumpert, Hardaway Jr., Future First. A bit pricey, I'd say
Ha ha, he has no shame. They got Lowry last year for 1st rounder. Since then his value has declined due to injuries and he is a FA this offseason. Yet somehow his value has now doubled to essentially 2 first rounders.
WALK THE F*** AWAY FROM THIS! Don't let any member of this organisation talk to Ujiri ever again.
+1
smackeddog wrote:Last time we dealt with him we ended up giving up:Mosgov
Gallo
Chandler
Felton
Corey Brewer
Anthony Randolph
Probably the number one pick in the 2014 draft
Probably a top five pick in the 2016 draft.
Do not deal with this man!
I believe he traded us Bargnani too
Ujiri is doing it again for the 2nd time
With the Melo deal - all season we heard about the W.Chandler and Fields/Gallo plus 1st round pick - no mention of R.Felton going for Billups until the actual deal... They ended up getting an extra player/asset from us (Mozgov) - this time, he now asks for 2 1st round picks so we will eventually agree on one 1st round pick and feel like we got a decent deal. We need to hire some professional poker players to help our GM not get fleeced - maybe Johnny Chan or even Matt Damon - urgh!
Just read this on another forum and literally laughed.
I actually don't mind trading away a 2018 first rounder, since the Knicks will have caused to have hung myself from a ceiling fan by 2016.
The espn rumor seems more in line with what the Knicks would give up. Wojo's is too good to be true
According to some stupid twitter, the Raps want two of the three: Tim Hardaway, Shumpert, or 1st round pick PERIOD!
I'd like an upgrade at PG but the asking price here isn't even realistic. The Knicks better walk away here. They should roll the dice on some young guys rather than give up the farm for a minor upgrade. People on here like to harp on the Melo trade. Knicks gave up a Lil more than they needed to, but it is crazy to think the picks may be decent. Knicks mismanagement after the trade was the real problem. Also bad luck that this yrs Draft is gonna be the best in years.
Agreed SwishAndDish13 - the key is to only make the right deal. We often focus on who we want and not on taking our desired players at the right price. If we could improve our own honest assessment of our players, along with maintaining our assets (like a long-term/savings bank account) - we wouldn't always feel almost broke and in a state of desperation to make the next move! So, not sure what the right deal is to acquire Lowry - but it's not hard to see that giving up more then Felton and 1 asset (Shump, pick, etc) is definitely too much. I think my limit is the Felton, MWP offer with a protected 1st round pick (top 15). What's your guys limit?
I would do the same but gamble and go unprotected if it sealed the deal. You are trading for a talented young PG. They don't grow on trees as we know better than anyone. He can flourish here and be part of the plan past 2015
But that is my limit. I would not give up Shump or THJ on top of it. Take it or leave it. In the end it is a lateral move. We won't be any closer to a ring
Think all about the picks we gave to Uri in Denver and Toronto
now just think about what we want the picks we gave to Toronto plus the 1st rounders they are seeking and think what value of players it could all be packaged with an expiring....
Clean wrote:nyk4ever wrote:in this case... dont even think twice. this trade has to be made.
Wojo is telling you what the Knicks want and the ESPN guy is telling you what the Raps want. I don't like either trade but I think it is obvious which one is coming from the GM that has beat us down in 2 trades previously. Plus the ESPN guy is the one who broke the news on my timeline.
Wojo is usually on point when it comes to these rumors. I'd trust him over everyone else.
RonRon wrote:Think all about the picks we gave to Uri in Denver and Torontonow just think about what we want the picks we gave to Toronto plus the 1st rounders they are seeking and think what value of players it could all be packaged with an expiring....
Exactly. Not sure why this is so hard to grasp
BigDaddyG wrote:Clean wrote:nyk4ever wrote:in this case... dont even think twice. this trade has to be made.
Wojo is telling you what the Knicks want and the ESPN guy is telling you what the Raps want. I don't like either trade but I think it is obvious which one is coming from the GM that has beat us down in 2 trades previously. Plus the ESPN guy is the one who broke the news on my timeline.
Wojo is usually on point when it comes to these rumors. I'd trust him over everyone else.
I don't think you understand what I am saying. They both are right they are just reporting what 2 different sides want the trade to be. Woj is using his sources to find out what the trade the Knicks wants are and The ESPN is doing the same but for the Raptors. Read both of the reports it says specifically that woj is reporting what the Knicks want and ESPN guy is reporting what the raptors want. Like in every negotiation there are 2 sides until a compromise or the talks end.
Hopefully that is more clearly explained.
BigDaddyG wrote:Clean wrote:nyk4ever wrote:in this case... dont even think twice. this trade has to be made.
Wojo is telling you what the Knicks want and the ESPN guy is telling you what the Raps want. I don't like either trade but I think it is obvious which one is coming from the GM that has beat us down in 2 trades previously. Plus the ESPN guy is the one who broke the news on my timeline.
Wojo is usually on point when it comes to these rumors. I'd trust him over everyone else.
He had someone leaking draft picks to him before they were announced live. There is no way he is in the negotiations to know the exact parameters of the deal from all parties. Judging from history ujiri will hose us again
