Knicks · ***Update Dolan nixes Lowry deal that was in place to be executed (page 3)
nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:this was leaked by toronto. the value has now been set for lowry as this deal was agreed to. i expect him moved in a similar package by monday (most likely to another team). dolan probably won't get back in this b/c he's a stubborn child.I don't know the infatuation with Lowry, but the Knicks should not even consider a player from the Raptors. There only one player of real value and that is Derozen.
what do you not like about lowry?
He is not that far off from Felton. Coming from a losing environment is my main grip with Lowry. This is a move that will not change the fortunes of the Knicks. I will give you that he plays better defense. Simply put Lowry is not worth that much. I personally think Dolan finally made the right move.
On a positive note Dolan might have realized he has idiots working for him as he had enough brains to nix the deal and that to me is a scary thought.
anrst wrote:i like lowry, but he's a FA after the season, so i can't believe the nerve of toronto to even make such demands.we should never deal with them on principle.
Why not try to get what you can? They paid a lottery pick to acquire Lowry--why exactly would they not ask for as much as they can get. Unless the Knicks ante into the draft and execute--Lowry might represent the best possible PG we can acquire for atleast the next 1.5 years unless they break the team down with Carmelo and Chandler trades. We made a mistake leaning on Prigs and Felton for 2 more years!!! I would be willing to give up Shumpert for Lowry but thats all.
Bonn1997 wrote:Can we make a trade that is contingent on him signing an extension or is that not allowed?
Both parties can agree in principle before the trade ala Harden and Houston then sign the extension after the trade. If he is trade the team that receives him also gets his bird rights so that makes it easier for a team like the knicks to do more than rent Lowery.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Can we make a trade that is contingent on him signing an extension or is that not allowed?Both parties can agree in principle before the trade ala Harden and Houston then sign the extension after the trade. If he is trade the team that receives him also gets his bird rights so that makes it easier for a team like the knicks to do more than rent Lowery.
So if I'm understanding that right, we wouldn't have to worry in that circumstance about him walking. If he doesn't sign the extension, the whole trade would fall apart, right?
tkf wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So we'd give up more for Bargnani than Lowry? That's crazyagreed... but the future looks like crap so why mortgage the future for a marginal upgrade
I agree we are in a bad pick situation, but this is a 2018 pick... if you plan on keeping losermelo, why not get a PG, we have no NBA starting caliber PG... just saying... I hate trading picks, but since the knicks are hell bent on building around this loser, might as well make the deal..
I want to agree but remember when the Pistons drafted (and wasted the pick on) Darko? They got that 2003 pick because of a salary dump trade with the Vancouver Grizz in '97... I thought the Knicks would be a 4 or 5 seed this year which proved to be way off. With no legit long-term, blue chip assets on the team I am pretty nervous that the 2018 pick ends up being really important to the franchise
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Can we make a trade that is contingent on him signing an extension or is that not allowed?Both parties can agree in principle before the trade ala Harden and Houston then sign the extension after the trade. If he is trade the team that receives him also gets his bird rights so that makes it easier for a team like the knicks to do more than rent Lowery.
So if I'm understanding that right, we wouldn't have to worry in that circumstance about him walking. If he doesn't sign the extension, the whole trade would fall apart, right?
I don't know if I understand this either but think it means trade would be final, but the pick only moves if Lowry signs an extension
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Can we make a trade that is contingent on him signing an extension or is that not allowed?Both parties can agree in principle before the trade ala Harden and Houston then sign the extension after the trade. If he is trade the team that receives him also gets his bird rights so that makes it easier for a team like the knicks to do more than rent Lowery.
So if I'm understanding that right, we wouldn't have to worry in that circumstance about him walking. If he doesn't sign the extension, the whole trade would fall apart, right?
Correct, if they can't agree on terms before the deal then they trade would be voided.Paying Lowery is not the real issue. They do not have to worry about money since the Knicks can pay Lowery as much as he can get anywhere else but the Lakers could have given Howard as much as he wanted so... I personally wouldn't want to sign him to an extension early because you never know what could happen and you want to keep the deal as low as you can while keeping it high enough to get bigger assets if you need them. However, there is some merrit into locking him up early to make sure who have an asset at all. Bird in the hand theory? I guess.
I know a few people who tweet Larry Coon who is as knowledgeable as anyone on stuff like this.
P.S.
Has the Knicks ever had a player who they traded to TO do well for the Raptors?
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Can we make a trade that is contingent on him signing an extension or is that not allowed?Both parties can agree in principle before the trade ala Harden and Houston then sign the extension after the trade. If he is trade the team that receives him also gets his bird rights so that makes it easier for a team like the knicks to do more than rent Lowery.
So if I'm understanding that right, we wouldn't have to worry in that circumstance about him walking. If he doesn't sign the extension, the whole trade would fall apart, right?Yell we wouldn't have to worry about money being a factor since the Knicks can pay Lowery as much as he can get anywhere else but the Lakers could have given Howard as much as he wanted so... I personally wouldn't want to sign him to an extension early because you never know what could happen and you want to keep the deal as low as you can while keeping it high enough to get bigger assets if you need them.
I know a few people who tweet Larry Coon who is as knowledgeable as anyone on stuff like this.
P.S.
Has the Knicks ever had a player who they traded to TO do well for the Raptors?
the Oak Man had one decent season in Toronto, which was 2000-01, which was the year the Raps knocked the Knicks out in the first round... and the following year was when JVG quit, and it has been all downhill ever since!
Vmart wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:this was leaked by toronto. the value has now been set for lowry as this deal was agreed to. i expect him moved in a similar package by monday (most likely to another team). dolan probably won't get back in this b/c he's a stubborn child.I don't know the infatuation with Lowry, but the Knicks should not even consider a player from the Raptors. There only one player of real value and that is Derozen.
what do you not like about lowry?
He is not that far off from Felton. Coming from a losing environment is my main grip with Lowry. This is a move that will not change the fortunes of the Knicks. I will give you that he plays better defense. Simply put Lowry is not worth that much. I personally think Dolan finally made the right move.
On a positive note Dolan might have realized he has idiots working for him as he had enough brains to nix the deal and that to me is a scary thought.
believe me, i agree with you about the deal that dolan of all people nixed, i wouldn't make that trade either. i can't get on lowry for coming from a losing situation though. from listening to dj, rudy gay was toxic to that team and it sounds like he just did whatever he wanted. when lowry was with houston, they were a winning team and he was a big part of it. the kid plays hard, he never has weight issues, he does tend to get hurt and miss around 10games a year but i think that's from the level of how hard he plays. he plays balls out. we could use a guy like him, he actually gives a shit.
i just dont like the felton comparison at all. if this deal were lowry for shumpert straight-up, i wouldn't even think twice before accepting. we need a guy like him.
nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:this was leaked by toronto. the value has now been set for lowry as this deal was agreed to. i expect him moved in a similar package by monday (most likely to another team). dolan probably won't get back in this b/c he's a stubborn child.I don't know the infatuation with Lowry, but the Knicks should not even consider a player from the Raptors. There only one player of real value and that is Derozen.
what do you not like about lowry?
He is not that far off from Felton. Coming from a losing environment is my main grip with Lowry. This is a move that will not change the fortunes of the Knicks. I will give you that he plays better defense. Simply put Lowry is not worth that much. I personally think Dolan finally made the right move.
On a positive note Dolan might have realized he has idiots working for him as he had enough brains to nix the deal and that to me is a scary thought.
believe me, i agree with you about the deal that dolan of all people nixed, i wouldn't make that trade either. i can't get on lowry for coming from a losing situation though. from listening to dj, rudy gay was toxic to that team and it sounds like he just did whatever he wanted. when lowry was with houston, they were a winning team and he was a big part of it. the kid plays hard, he never has weight issues, he does tend to get hurt and miss around 10games a year but i think that's from the level of how hard he plays. he plays balls out. we could use a guy like him, he actually gives a shit.
i just dont like the felton comparison at all. if this deal were lowry for shumpert straight-up, i wouldn't even think twice before accepting. we need a guy like him.
hopefully Dolan learned form getting involved with the Melo deal and wait until closer to the deadline, when the Raps will take whatever deal they can get for him
SupremeCommander wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:this was leaked by toronto. the value has now been set for lowry as this deal was agreed to. i expect him moved in a similar package by monday (most likely to another team). dolan probably won't get back in this b/c he's a stubborn child.I don't know the infatuation with Lowry, but the Knicks should not even consider a player from the Raptors. There only one player of real value and that is Derozen.
what do you not like about lowry?
He is not that far off from Felton. Coming from a losing environment is my main grip with Lowry. This is a move that will not change the fortunes of the Knicks. I will give you that he plays better defense. Simply put Lowry is not worth that much. I personally think Dolan finally made the right move.
On a positive note Dolan might have realized he has idiots working for him as he had enough brains to nix the deal and that to me is a scary thought.
believe me, i agree with you about the deal that dolan of all people nixed, i wouldn't make that trade either. i can't get on lowry for coming from a losing situation though. from listening to dj, rudy gay was toxic to that team and it sounds like he just did whatever he wanted. when lowry was with houston, they were a winning team and he was a big part of it. the kid plays hard, he never has weight issues, he does tend to get hurt and miss around 10games a year but i think that's from the level of how hard he plays. he plays balls out. we could use a guy like him, he actually gives a shit.
i just dont like the felton comparison at all. if this deal were lowry for shumpert straight-up, i wouldn't even think twice before accepting. we need a guy like him.
hopefully Dolan learned form getting involved with the Melo deal and wait until closer to the deadline, when the Raps will take whatever deal they can get for him
we can only hope lol
I dont view Lowry as a savior type, but on this team he could be. If he's in shape he would make us instantly better. A ball mover who can run an offense, get stops late, score and make plays in the paint.
This team reminds me of when they tried to run Toney Douglas out there as the starter. Everyone looks bad. The talent on this team may not be title caliber but its not as bad as the record, and we havent had poor guard play, its been non existant. Lowry would be an instant injection of good basketball
nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:this was leaked by toronto. the value has now been set for lowry as this deal was agreed to. i expect him moved in a similar package by monday (most likely to another team). dolan probably won't get back in this b/c he's a stubborn child.I don't know the infatuation with Lowry, but the Knicks should not even consider a player from the Raptors. There only one player of real value and that is Derozen.
what do you not like about lowry?
He is not that far off from Felton. Coming from a losing environment is my main grip with Lowry. This is a move that will not change the fortunes of the Knicks. I will give you that he plays better defense. Simply put Lowry is not worth that much. I personally think Dolan finally made the right move.
On a positive note Dolan might have realized he has idiots working for him as he had enough brains to nix the deal and that to me is a scary thought.
believe me, i agree with you about the deal that dolan of all people nixed, i wouldn't make that trade either. i can't get on lowry for coming from a losing situation though. from listening to dj, rudy gay was toxic to that team and it sounds like he just did whatever he wanted. when lowry was with houston, they were a winning team and he was a big part of it. the kid plays hard, he never has weight issues, he does tend to get hurt and miss around 10games a year but i think that's from the level of how hard he plays. he plays balls out. we could use a guy like him, he actually gives a shit.
i just dont like the felton comparison at all. if this deal were lowry for shumpert straight-up, i wouldn't even think twice before accepting. we need a guy like him.
I'd trade for the Lowry who played for Houston a few years ago, but he isn't at that level anymore. He's had issues with his last two coaches, he looks plumper and he's 28 now. He's known as a shoot first PG when we need a distributor. He got called selfish in Toronto- do we really need another selfish chucker with a bad attitude on this team? I used to think he was great, but I'm really not so sure anymore.
gunsnewing wrote:It was Nene or Amare in that 2002 draft. Lebron Melo and Wade was 2003Did we have a pick in that historic draft? now it's the same in 2014 historic draft and no pick.
Actually I think we took Frank Williams with the 30th pick in the 2003 draft
Yes, we had one...we used it on Sweetney...unbelievable, and I liked Mike. But yes, I was wrong about Wade. That draft was historic, but the drop off after #6 is MASSIVE.
anrst wrote:i like lowry, but he's a FA after the season, so i can't believe the nerve of toronto to even make such demands.we should never deal with them on principle.
And people said we'd be lucky to get a 1st rounder or two for Melo! Now apparantly an expiring Lowry has more value!
fishmike wrote:I wouldnt include a pick but I would include Shump, with the intention of resigning Lowry to something in the $7mm-$8mm range for 3 years.I dont view Lowry as a savior type, but on this team he could be. If he's in shape he would make us instantly better. A ball mover who can run an offense, get stops late, score and make plays in the paint.
This team reminds me of when they tried to run Toney Douglas out there as the starter. Everyone looks bad. The talent on this team may not be title caliber but its not as bad as the record, and we havent had poor guard play, its been non existant. Lowry would be an instant injection of good basketball
It seems like we already have a Shump deal lined up, just waiting for Dec 15th- doesn't make sense why Dolan wouldn't have agreed to trade Shump for Lowry otherwise.
tkf wrote:why wouldn't dolan do the deal. i thought it was all about 2015? he could have moved felton and saved his salary..so wait, he moves novak and picks to get sucknani. and this was spun by most desperate fans as the 2015 plan.. LOL..
yet he won't move a 2018 pick to skim more off the cap?
You wouldn't be skimming money off the cap, because you'd have to re-sign Lowry at at least 8 mil per. You'd probably end up adding to it.
At this point I just feel we're going for the worst possible 'strategy'- resign Melo for the max, do anything to make the playoffs this year and to hell with the 2015 cap space clear out...
fishmike wrote:I wouldnt include a pick but I would include Shump, with the intention of resigning Lowry to something in the $7mm-$8mm range for 3 years.I dont view Lowry as a savior type, but on this team he could be. If he's in shape he would make us instantly better. A ball mover who can run an offense, get stops late, score and make plays in the paint.
This team reminds me of when they tried to run Toney Douglas out there as the starter. Everyone looks bad. The talent on this team may not be title caliber but its not as bad as the record, and we havent had poor guard play, its been non existant. Lowry would be an instant injection of good basketball
I actually wrote this for fishmike. He used it for his own benefit. He'll hear from my lawyer