You have to look at the trade from their perspective too. We're giving them 3 marginal NBA players in Shumpert, Felton, and MWP, and asking them to take on an extra $13 mil in salary. That's worse than letting than just letting Lowry walk would be. So of course they're going to ask for a draft pick or THJ. I'd be glad to get out of that $13 mil. Don't forget, if we give $9 mil per for Lowry, we'd be adding only $4.5 mil in salary for the critical 2015 free agent year since they're taking Felton off our hands. We can do this trade only if Lowry agrees to an extension. But we have to give Toronto a reason to take that $13 mil on. We have to make it better for them than just letting Lowry walk would be.
Bonn1997 wrote:You have to look at the trade from their perspective too. We're giving them 3 marginal NBA players in Shumpert, Felton, and MWP, and asking them to take on an extra $13 mil in salary. That's worse than letting than just letting Lowry walk would be. So of course they're going to ask for a draft pick or THJ. I'd be glad to get out of that $13 mil. Don't forget, if we give $9 mil per for Lowry, we'd be adding only $4.5 mil in salary for the critical 2015 free agent year since they're taking Felton off our hands. We can do this trade only if Lowry agrees to an extension. But we have to give Toronto a reason to take that $13 mil on. We have to make it better for them than just letting Lowry walk would be.
My thoughts exactly. Why would they just take felton and metta? They need some incentive. If shump is enough its a steal. I don't get people expecting to get something for nothing around here.
nixluva wrote:Dolan is a real trip. He did this more out of his insane dislike for the media than because he had a problem giving up assets. I mean he just OK'd the Bargnani deal on top of all the other deals so he can't act like he's shrewd now all of a sudden. That guy is a real clown.
I think it is the right move and should be applauded to veto that trade. How do you rip a guy when he makes a good decision -- raising the bad decisions he has made? What are you his wife?
We need to boycott trading with ujiri all together
Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You have to look at the trade from their perspective too. We're giving them 3 marginal NBA players in Shumpert, Felton, and MWP, and asking them to take on an extra $13 mil in salary. That's worse than letting than just letting Lowry walk would be. So of course they're going to ask for a draft pick or THJ. I'd be glad to get out of that $13 mil. Don't forget, if we give $9 mil per for Lowry, we'd be adding only $4.5 mil in salary for the critical 2015 free agent year since they're taking Felton off our hands. We can do this trade only if Lowry agrees to an extension. But we have to give Toronto a reason to take that $13 mil on. We have to make it better for them than just letting Lowry walk would be.
My thoughts exactly. Why would they just take felton and metta? They need some incentive. If shump is enough its a steal. I don't get people expecting to get something for nothing around here.
How is that a steal? It would be a poor business decision to make that trade.
Lowry is a middling point guard with an expiring contract. Shump is still on his rookie contract and while I wouldn't make him out to be an untouchable superstar, despite his injuries he has shown flashes of brilliance and is a two way player.
The only way this makes any sense is if it a salary dump for 15/16 where Felton has a player option. I don't trust the reports that the Nets are in on Lowry... I think is bs and they are just trying to jack up the price on the Knicks. I'll give them JR Smith for him. It would dump more salary in 15/16.
Besides, I wouldn't trade Metta unless he asked for it. Getting in the habit of trading guys who take the vet's exception to be in NY is a terrible idea. It basically tells Vets not to sign here because you get no respect...
This deal makes no sense.
EwingsGlass wrote:nixluva wrote:Dolan is a real trip. He did this more out of his insane dislike for the media than because he had a problem giving up assets. I mean he just OK'd the Bargnani deal on top of all the other deals so he can't act like he's shrewd now all of a sudden. That guy is a real clown.
I think it is the right move and should be applauded to veto that trade. How do you rip a guy when he makes a good decision -- raising the bad decisions he has made? What are you his wife?
WTF? Hey man if a guy is making GOOD decisions out of a sense of the right thing to do for building a franchise that's one thing, but this guy only said no because of public perception after the new got out and he started getting negative press. As I said he just made the deal for Bargs and was about to let this deal happen if not for the fact that it leaked and he was getting ripped. That's not something to give him credit for.
nixluva wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:nixluva wrote:Dolan is a real trip. He did this more out of his insane dislike for the media than because he had a problem giving up assets. I mean he just OK'd the Bargnani deal on top of all the other deals so he can't act like he's shrewd now all of a sudden. That guy is a real clown.
I think it is the right move and should be applauded to veto that trade. How do you rip a guy when he makes a good decision -- raising the bad decisions he has made? What are you his wife?
WTF? Hey man if a guy is making GOOD decisions out of a sense of the right thing to do for building a franchise that's one thing, but this guy only said no because of public perception after the new got out and he started getting negative press. As I said he just made the deal for Bargs and was about to let this deal happen if not for the fact that it leaked and he was getting ripped. That's not something to give him credit for.
I think you added words to the statements I have seen on this (all of which are from Isola, so are basically worthless -- always "according to a source").
According to a source familiar with the talks, Dolan had second thoughts about trading for Lowry and was also — what else? — enraged that details of the proposed deal had been leaked to the media.
According to several reports, the Knicks were prepared to trade Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick. The Raptors preferred the first-round pick, but Dolan — who negotiated the Carmelo Anthony trade with Raptors GM Masai Ujiri when Ujiri was with the Denver Nuggets — got cold feet about trading a future asset. That could open the door for the Brooklyn Nets to acquire Lowry instead.
“Dolan didn’t want to get fleeced again by Masai,” was how one Knicks source put it. “They had a deal ready.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553#ixzz2nO23kbs7
So, the article even says he didn't want to get fleeced.
I'd be pissed too if the negotiations in my organization were being made public so quickly also.
I hate to be the guy defending Dolan, but he gets a thumbs up on this. Even if you are right about his motive, he made the right decision in vetoing. I don't want to beat him up for not trading 1st round draft picks.
Knicks are revisting the deal according to Wojo
The idea that he HAD to give up a pick for Lowry is incorrect from what i've read. It was Felton, MWP and Shump OR THJ OR 2018 Pick. So he could've made the deal with just Felton, MWP and Shump, who he supposedly wanted to trade all summer.
smackeddog wrote:tkf wrote:why wouldn't dolan do the deal. i thought it was all about 2015? he could have moved felton and saved his salary..so wait, he moves novak and picks to get sucknani. and this was spun by most desperate fans as the 2015 plan.. LOL..
yet he won't move a 2018 pick to skim more off the cap?
You wouldn't be skimming money off the cap, because you'd have to re-sign Lowry at at least 8 mil per. You'd probably end up adding to it.
At this point I just feel we're going for the worst possible 'strategy'- resign Melo for the max, do anything to make the playoffs this year and to hell with the 2015 cap space clear out...
YEP, THAT IS my fear, but you are right, we would have to figure out what to do with lowry as far as resigning him.. as I said, this is almost a lose- lose situation... it just keeps coming back to what needs to be done.. tear this down.. top to bottom..
nixluva wrote:The idea that he HAD to give up a pick for Lowry is incorrect from what i've read. It was Felton, MWP and Shump OR THJ OR 2018 Pick. So he could've made the deal with just Felton, MWP and Shump, who he supposedly wanted to trade all summer.
If we the Knicks were commited to a Lowry/Shumpert backcourt I would have no problem with including the pick, maybe try for a 2nd rounder back
There must be another deal on the horizon...cuz Felton, Metta and shump for Lowry is a no Brainer.
I'm trying to remain patient. I'm not watching games anymore until something happens
EnySpree wrote:There must be another deal on the horizon...cuz Felton, Metta and shump for Lowry is a no Brainer. I'm trying to remain patient. I'm not watching games anymore until something happens
I think its waiting on the Dec15th date (when you can trade guys you signed). I also think Shump KNOWS he's gone on some level and has mailed it in.
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:The idea that he HAD to give up a pick for Lowry is incorrect from what i've read. It was Felton, MWP and Shump OR THJ OR 2018 Pick. So he could've made the deal with just Felton, MWP and Shump, who he supposedly wanted to trade all summer.
If we the Knicks were commited to a Lowry/Shumpert backcourt I would have no problem with including the pick, maybe try for a 2nd rounder back
The only problem is Shumpert is a bench player at tops.
Knicks and Nets will suck in 2018.
D
Bonn1997 wrote:You have to look at the trade from their perspective too. We're giving them 3 marginal NBA players in Shumpert, Felton, and MWP, and asking them to take on an extra $13 mil in salary. That's worse than letting than just letting Lowry walk would be. So of course they're going to ask for a draft pick or THJ. I'd be glad to get out of that $13 mil. Don't forget, if we give $9 mil per for Lowry, we'd be adding only $4.5 mil in salary for the critical 2015 free agent year since they're taking Felton off our hands. We can do this trade only if Lowry agrees to an extension. But we have to give Toronto a reason to take that $13 mil on. We have to make it better for them than just letting Lowry walk would be.
The trade could work financially without including Iman Shumpert. Yes, they'd assume Raymond Felton's longer term commitment (2yrs/$8 million) but that is hardly something to balk at, especially when you consider that they'll need a backup PG and are not a popular free agent destination. More importantly, if we include the $3 million cash that we're eligible to, it'd effectively pay an entire year of Felton's salary. When you consider the money involved and buyout for Metta, it'd only cost the Raptors about $5 million over the next 2 seasons, which is no biggie. They either accept this framework (and possibly a protected 2nd rounder) or they can go fuck themselves.
Man, maybe I think differently but how is Shump, Felton and MWp for Lowry a "no brainer" for 5 months? We fans tend to underrate and overrate our players too much. If Lowry had a contract until summer of 2015 I would understand but you are willing to trade shump for a 5 month rental that will lead to a 1st round exit if we even make the playoffs? Shump is no all star but he is not a scrub either. Put him on a team that is not trying to trade him every chance you can get and a team that don't have ISO player I bet he does well.
fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:There must be another deal on the horizon...cuz Felton, Metta and shump for Lowry is a no Brainer. I'm trying to remain patient. I'm not watching games anymore until something happens
I think its waiting on the Dec15th date (when you can trade guys you signed). I also think Shump KNOWS he's gone on some level and has mailed it in.
Trade rumors kills your focusness, I wouldn't say he mailed it in, but when your not in a stable position your subject to erratic behavior..
Clean wrote:Man, maybe I think differently but how is Shump, Felton and MWp for Lowry a "no brainer" for 5 months? We fans tend to underrate and overrate our players too much. If Lowry had a contract until summer of 2015 I would understand but you are willing to trade shump for a 5 month rental that will lead to a 1st round exit if we even make the playoffs? Shump is no all star but he is not a scrub either. Put him on a team that is not trying to trade him every chance you can get and a team that don't have ISO player I bet he does well.
Exactly. We only should trade assets for a player if: (1) they are clearly a star and are clearly better than what you're surrendering e.g. KG to Boston or (2) if the player is under contract long term and can be a (potential) rotation player for you e.g. Kyle Lowry to Toronto. Other than that, you never give up assets. At the moment, Lowry does not fit either description, so if the Raptors don't take Raymond Felton, Metta and $3 million cash (which saves them money in the immediacy), then that should be the end of our negotiations.
BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:The idea that he HAD to give up a pick for Lowry is incorrect from what i've read. It was Felton, MWP and Shump OR THJ OR 2018 Pick. So he could've made the deal with just Felton, MWP and Shump, who he supposedly wanted to trade all summer.
If we the Knicks were commited to a Lowry/Shumpert backcourt I would have no problem with including the pick, maybe try for a 2nd rounder back
The only problem is Shumpert is a bench player at tops.
what could Bruce Bowen or Raja Bell do that Shumpert cant? He's still raw but he's played in 120ish NBA games... not even a year and a half.
He looks especially bad now because of the trade rumors (speculation) and he never EVER gets the ball in any kind of position to score (fact). When was the last time you saw a play run for this guy?
Im no Shump homer... He's not future all star but doesnt mean he cant be pretty good
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:The idea that he HAD to give up a pick for Lowry is incorrect from what i've read. It was Felton, MWP and Shump OR THJ OR 2018 Pick. So he could've made the deal with just Felton, MWP and Shump, who he supposedly wanted to trade all summer.
If we the Knicks were commited to a Lowry/Shumpert backcourt I would have no problem with including the pick, maybe try for a 2nd rounder back
The only problem is Shumpert is a bench player at tops.
what could Bruce Bowen or Raja Bell do that Shumpert cant? He's still raw but he's played in 120ish NBA games... not even a year and a half.He looks especially bad now because of the trade rumors (speculation) and he never EVER gets the ball in any kind of position to score (fact). When was the last time you saw a play run for this guy?
Im no Shump homer... He's not future all star but doesnt mean he cant be pretty good
Shump is mentally shot, he is definitely in need of a new scenery. Haven't you noticed he has regressed a lot.
