Knicks · Here is why you fire Woodson (page 2)

playa2 wrote:Starting to think Woody can't handle the pressure anymore, he's starting to get Jeff Vandummy's bags under his eyes.

And appears to have forgotten simple high school level coaching strategies

matt wrote:

playa2 wrote:Starting to think Woody can't handle the pressure anymore, he's starting to get Jeff Vandummy's bags under his eyes.

And appears to have forgotten simple high school level coaching strategies

melo waived him off when he was about to call a time out, bitched him right in front of team, forget about the media and fans, your going to lose the respect of the team..He's gotta go, it's no secrete why melo loves woody, he lets him do anything he wants

how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

Exactly. Maybe Woodson messed up the final play last night. A great teacher will probably be at his worst if he has awful students too.

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

And the teams lack of preparation and leadership and how Melo has carte Blanche to do whatever he wants without any reprecaution. The minute Woodson admitted his game plan is to just let the players play offense he lost me. It worked when Kidd was here now he is with Brooklyn. Kidd would've called a time out there. Kidd spis his coke to gain an extra timeout. Woodson had 3 and didn't use his. The teams collective IQ is terrible but I don't see a Popovich coached team making so many blunders down the stretch. From not fouling to players(Melo) not having any idea how much time was left on the clock and timeouts. It's a joke

But very entertaining to watch their demise unfold

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

What's the alternative sit back and enjoy 7-17

Hey I'm not complaining. Seeing them come up with new ways to lose every game has been entertaining g

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

You think a coach can't sit a player down if he's not conforming to the coaches standard or system ?

When he does he might be in the outs with the player, but he will gain the respect of the rest of the teams .
Coaching 101 See Riley, Popovich etc.... Players play , but it's up to the coach to set the CULTURE on the team. ! The culture Woody has set is do what cha like

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

i dont disagree with anything in your post fish. yes, he absolutely did get a career year out of jr last year - i honestly think it being a contract year helped in that regard, but nonetheless, woody has to get credit too and you're absolutely right theres a million problems with this team, PG being first and foremost. the offense sucks because there is no pg. hopefully we'll go after lowry now (within reason) since prigs is hurt.

i guess with me, im just looking to see something.. ANYTHING different about this team and i guess changing the coach is really the only thing we can do to shuffle it up. consider me jaded, i suppose.

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

You think a coach can't sit a player down if he's not conforming to the coaches standard or system ?

When he does he might be in the outs with the player, but he will gain the respect of the rest of the teams .
Coaching 101 See Riley, Popovich etc.... Players play , but it's up to the coach to set the CULTURE on the team. !

agree. In high school. Maybe even on the plantation. NBA? Really? I thought you actually followed the league.

gunsnewing wrote:What's the alternative sit back and enjoy 7-17

Hey I'm not complaining. Seeing them come up with new ways to lose every game has been entertaining g

sorry bro, but this is still the epitome of stupidity to me.

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

i dont disagree with anything in your post fish. yes, he absolutely did get a career year out of jr last year - i honestly think it being a contract year helped in that regard, but nonetheless, woody has to get credit too and you're absolutely right theres a million problems with this team, PG being first and foremost. the offense sucks because there is no pg. hopefully we'll go after lowry now (within reason) since prigs is hurt.

i guess with me, im just looking to see something.. ANYTHING different about this team and i guess changing the coach is really the only thing we can do to shuffle it up. consider me jaded, i suppose.

well your right there. Im not even disagreeing with you, just calling it like I see it and playing a little devil's advocate. Your 100% right.. you cant fire the players, so you fire the coach and hope the next guy has a voice that gets through to these guys. Rinse wash repeat.

I will say this.. if we ever got a coach who became a big time coaching talent do you think he would stay? Those guys are control freaks. You think this MSG environment can sustain anything but a corporate yes man at that position?

That's a good point playa. Woodson does the opposite and therefore he loses the whole team in favor of Melo and JR. Although he finally held JR accountable recently. Melo will never be held accountable. He is the most powerful man in the organization besides Dolan

Accountability is just one small aspect though. The bigger aspect is How Woodson is out coached by just about every coach in the league.

Teams that have far less talent than these Knicks have more wins and show more heart and collective spirit. How do you get blown out twice to a rebuilding Celtic team in such a short period of time

By the way the Celtics are in rebuilding mode and they are still better than the pathetic knicks

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

You think a coach can't sit a player down if he's not conforming to the coaches standard or system ?

When he does he might be in the outs with the player, but he will gain the respect of the rest of the teams .
Coaching 101 See Riley, Popovich etc.... Players play , but it's up to the coach to set the CULTURE on the team. !

agree. In high school. Maybe even on the plantation. NBA? Really? I thought you actually followed the league.

Look at the teams who's coach wins titles, the coach is the guy who sets the standard when they discipline the leagues best players when they aren't playing the right way.

Players play, they can't see how they are playing , but the coach does along wiith the asst coaches and the players on the bench. The real coaches who have a set, will set the culture on playing to the teams strengths, not letting players do what they like when it's the headcoach holds the minutes the players play.

It's a win win situation for the team and organization. Now for the player who chooses not to conform , he can go to JAIL unless he has a no trade clause !

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

i dont disagree with anything in your post fish. yes, he absolutely did get a career year out of jr last year - i honestly think it being a contract year helped in that regard, but nonetheless, woody has to get credit too and you're absolutely right theres a million problems with this team, PG being first and foremost. the offense sucks because there is no pg. hopefully we'll go after lowry now (within reason) since prigs is hurt.

i guess with me, im just looking to see something.. ANYTHING different about this team and i guess changing the coach is really the only thing we can do to shuffle it up. consider me jaded, i suppose.

well your right there. Im not even disagreeing with you, just calling it like I see it and playing a little devil's advocate. Your 100% right.. you cant fire the players, so you fire the coach and hope the next guy has a voice that gets through to these guys. Rinse wash repeat.

I will say this.. if we ever got a coach who became a big time coaching talent do you think he would stay? Those guys are control freaks. You think this MSG environment can sustain anything but a corporate yes man at that position?

there isn't a chance in hell that a guy would stay, van gundy should have been here alot longer than he was but didn't want to be a corporate yes man. it's the same reason a guy like brad stevens is in boston and not here - 1. because dolan doesn't have the foresight to hire a guy like that that and 2. because a guy like that wouldn't come here even if he was offered more money. any young coach has to be thinking.. if this organization treats hof'ers like lenny wilkens and larry brown the way they did, how are they going to treat me?

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

This is straight bs, you want to give credit to the coach for what he did last yr and give him a pass this yr when he's clearly lost the team..

What kinda of nonsense is that. Please stop making excuses for this coach.

Look at some of the asinine decisions in the final seconds of the numerous close games we lost.

failing to foul up by 3 against Houston and Indiana
horrible rotations at every turn
Allowing your team to shoot jumpers no matter what
not pointing out the overwhelming disparity in free throw attemps

yes we need a PG but the lack of direction and leadership falls on woodson and Melo everyday all day

Get rid of MDA they said. Woodson is a MUCH better coach, they stressed! This what happens when you hire a Yes man that caters to certain players!

I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.