Knicks · Here is why you fire Woodson (page 3)

I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.

Great post. You need to post more often man!

gunsnewing wrote:What's the alternative sit back and enjoy 7-17

Hey I'm not complaining. Seeing them come up with new ways to lose every game has been entertaining g

The alternative is to address the real problems and actually begin a better path

ShellTopAdidas wrote:Get rid of MDA they said. Woodson is a MUCH better coach, they stressed! This what happens when you hire a Yes man that caters to certain players!

The irony is that the metrics experts saw all of this coming - they saw that this team was overrated and during the season people would use Woodson as a scapegoat.

I agree but I also would change the coach. Like I said before Woodson lost me when he admitted he let's the players do what they want on the offensive end

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.

Good stuff.

Vmart wrote:

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.

Good stuff.

This dude freaking gets it!!!! Melo will only play for whoever let's him play HIS game, PERIOD!!!! I've said it a thousand times, Melo is UNCOACHABLE!!! So whoever we get to coach this team, if their not running ISO, their as good as gone too! Wake up people, it's not the coaches!

If you want to further diminish these players values then by all means keep Mike Woodson

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:how long we gonna wait for woodson to get canned. nobody that comes in here is going to have a full deck to work with, but woodson is awful. i don't care about how many games he won in atlanta, they were a talented team. they clearly won in spite of him there and here last year. please, let's get a new voice in here.

If we don't get a coach to change the CULTURE HEREit doesn't matter the resukts will be the same.

Dan dummy, Chaney, Wilkins, I-say-uh, Damphony, Wilkins... you really think its the coach? You have to be kidding me

we aren't losing because of woodson, but you really think he's a good coach fish? what does he do well? he doesn't draw up very good plays coming out of timeouts, the young players seem to be regressing (sans THJ), the defensive plan isn't effective. what is woodsons endearing quality as coach of this team?

how about he got a career year out of JR and despite a revolving door of injuries coach the Knicks to 54 wins. He took Melo out of a position he played his whole career, moved him to PF and he wins his first scoring title. Did everything happen last year inspite of Woody?

No... I see much deeper problems then coaching. Fan's expectations of coaches are not realistic. This year JR fails his 3rd straight piss test gets suspended and comes back shooting 33%. Instead of saavy old guys who clearly had a positive impact this year its Chris Smith, Bargs, Beno, Cole Aldridge... the ultimate example of filling a roster of warm bodies. Felton is clearly out of shape and shockingly has been constantly hurt.

Its easy to blame the coach when you see this much dysfunction, because yes.. the coach's fingerprints are on everything. I get it. Look at the history though and you see its not a coaching problem. Never has been

This is straight bs, you want to give credit to the coach for what he did last yr and give him a pass this yr when he's clearly lost the team..

What kinda of nonsense is that. Please stop making excuses for this coach.

Look at some of the asinine decisions in the final seconds of the numerous close games we lost.

failing to foul up by 3 against Houston and Indiana
horrible rotations at every turn
Allowing your team to shoot jumpers no matter what
not pointing out the overwhelming disparity in free throw attemps

yes we need a PG but the lack of direction and leadership falls on woodson and Melo everyday all day

its not an excuse but an observation. Fire the coach, I could care less. What happened to the coaching staff over the summer? Why doesnt Woody know how to coach anymore?

failing to foul up by 3 against Houston and Indianadidnt Shump foul and send him to the line? Most NBA coaches dont foul there...
horrible rotations at every turnwhen your team stinks, and your #2 scorer from a year ago is shooting 3% every rotation is going to look bad. Who leads the team in assists? Who is runing this coach's offense?
Allowing your team to shoot jumpers no matter whattrue or false.. we have a team full of jump shooters
not pointing out the overwhelming disparity in free throw attemps????????

So who's the replacement? Whos coming in here to better mold these players into... (insert clay here)

Knicks dont need a new coach. They need a point guard. Watch them play for 3 minutes

fishmike wrote:Knicks dont need a new coach. They need a point guard. Watch them play for 3 minutes

lol

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

Muhaha I agree with your assessment major changes are needed, but I would have to say to you, Melo did't manipulate the coach, Melo and Isiah manipulated Dolan who in turn manipulated the coach.

playa2 wrote:

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

Muhaha I agree with your assessment major changes are needed, but I would have to say to you, Melo did't manipulate the coach, Melo and Isiah manipulated Dolan who in turn manipulated the coach.

Dolan doesn't know enough about basketball to screw this stuff up. Zeke has a vendetta against NY basketball fans and he will hold that card as long as possible.

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Vmart wrote:

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.

Good stuff.

This dude freaking gets it!!!! Melo will only play for whoever let's him play HIS game, PERIOD!!!! I've said it a thousand times, Melo is UNCOACHABLE!!! So whoever we get to coach this team, if their not running ISO, their as good as gone too! Wake up people, it's not the coaches!

I was never a huge Melo fan, and I agree with most on this topic, except for one thing. I don't think Melo purposely under performed under MDA. I think MDA's system forces Melo away from his ISO plays, and into a more traditional move and cut offense, dominated by the PG, who controls the ball more. Melo tried to do it MDA's way during the Linsanity era, which dropped Melo's performance. Melo is a star and he gets paid for his ISO plays. Without ISO's, he's just a very solid role player. This is why I say this all the time, Melo is overrated and doesn't deserve a max contract. When other stars hit or miss their shots, there's no love loss because they know how to impact a game, even when their jump shot is off. When Melo shot is off, he just shoots more....When JR shot is off, he just shoots more. Can't rely on these types of players to lead your ball club on the offensive end.....

blkexec wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Vmart wrote:

muhaha wrote:I've been lurking for awhile and a big fan of many posters here.

For those who expect Woody to be fired, I think you are in for a big disappointment. Woodson and Melo are conjoining twins literary. Without prior approval by Melo, there will be no coaching change. To perform a surgical separation, the risk is there that Melo will not only under-perform with a new coaching change but walk by the end of the season. Woody's job is safe for as long as Melo approves of him.

You just can't fire a worker without the approval of his immediate supervisor.

Melo manipulated who coached Knicks by his performance on court two seasons ago. He adamantly vouched for the hiring and upped his performance after the coaching change. It's his coach of choice. Whenever a player had so much power over his coach, this team was heading for an unavoidable disaster.

The written was on the wall the moment they hired Woodson. It was a bad hire because Woody WASN'T a bad coach; I still think he is a decent regular season coach. It was a bad hire because a player manipulated the change.

Whether you agree with me or not with my absurd view of the situation, there is one thing we all can agree on--major changes need to happen.

One more thing before I finish my rant.

Great defensive teams do not run many isolations.

Pacer 7.0%
Heat 8.5%
Spurs 5.2%
Knicks 13.0%

Isolation, in general, is not a good offensive play. Only under special circumstances that isolations make sense. The more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team defense.

When a team isos a lot, other players don’t have that shared responsibility on defense. It’s kind of human nature – if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he’ll want to return the favor and play harder on defense. Even if he misses the shot after receiving a good pass from his teammate, he will work even HARDER on D to make up his wide open missed shot.

Offense and defense are always intertwined. The more a team isos, the worse the team defense.

The more the ball moves, the less players stand around. Players will feel a part of the team, they feel the movement, they feel good. If one guy is shooting all the shots, defensively other players will not try as hard.

Another reason why isolation plays may have fallen out of favor around the league is because the defenses and scouting have improved, teams are so familiar with other players that they try to beat them to the spot when iso'ing.

Good stuff.

This dude freaking gets it!!!! Melo will only play for whoever let's him play HIS game, PERIOD!!!! I've said it a thousand times, Melo is UNCOACHABLE!!! So whoever we get to coach this team, if their not running ISO, their as good as gone too! Wake up people, it's not the coaches!

I was never a huge Melo fan, and I agree with most on this topic, except for one thing. I don't think Melo purposely under performed under MDA. I think MDA's system forces Melo away from his ISO plays, and into a more traditional move and cut offense, dominated by the PG, who controls the ball more. Melo tried to do it MDA's way during the Linsanity era, which dropped Melo's performance. Melo is a star and he gets paid for his ISO plays. Without ISO's, he's just a very solid role player. This is why I say this all the time, Melo is overrated and doesn't deserve a max contract. When other stars hit or miss their shots, there's no love loss because they know how to impact a game, even when their jump shot is off. When Melo shot is off, he just shoots more....When JR shot is off, he just shoots more. Can't rely on these types of players to lead your ball club on the offensive end.....

I don't think Melo did try during Linsanity. When he came back from his injury that year it seemed like he went out of his way to break the offense whenever he could. And Amare complained after D'Antoni resigned that guys weren't giving his offense a chance. Also, I remember multiple posters here laughing at Lin because he was trying to run a called play from MDA and Melo was waving him off. A few posters kept writing about who was Lin to be telling Melo what to do and the rookie should just learn his place.

Can we PLEASE get Lionel Hollins???

tj23 wrote:Can we PLEASE get Lionel Hollins???

That's what I'm talking about!

playa2 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Can we PLEASE get Lionel Hollins???

That's what I'm talking about!

I think Melo would like this guy(not that there's a lot of Melo fans on this board) but he would also get this squad to play defense. Not just with their heart but with their heads. Look at Memphis' defense falling apart this season. Cooincidence?? I'm not really a Woody hater but I think he's just Mediocre. Hollins is a good coach. He'll probably have us in the top 10 defensively. If we can just get a little offense out of our guards we can be respectable.

tj23 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Can we PLEASE get Lionel Hollins???

That's what I'm talking about!

I think Melo would like this guy(not that there's a lot of Melo fans on this board) but he would also get this squad to play defense. Not just with their heart but with their heads. Look at Memphis' defense falling apart this season. Cooincidence?? I'm not really a Woody hater but I think he's just Mediocre. Hollins is a good coach. He'll probably have us in the top 10 defensively. If we can just get a little offense out of our guards we can be respectable.

I still don't see what they plan to do about the PG situation defensively. I've never seen anything like it. These guys get burnt every time down the floor. A defensive upgrade in the backcourt would significantly improve this team.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

tj23 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Can we PLEASE get Lionel Hollins???

That's what I'm talking about!

I think Melo would like this guy(not that there's a lot of Melo fans on this board) but he would also get this squad to play defense. Not just with their heart but with their heads. Look at Memphis' defense falling apart this season. Cooincidence?? I'm not really a Woody hater but I think he's just Mediocre. Hollins is a good coach. He'll probably have us in the top 10 defensively. If we can just get a little offense out of our guards we can be respectable.

I still don't see what they plan to do about the PG situation defensively. I've never seen anything like it. These guys get burnt every time down the floor. A defensive upgrade in the backcourt would significantly improve this team.

This has Isiah written all over it. A former pg himself making sure we won't have a young one who can orchestrate and run a team.