Knicks · Get Jimmer (page 4)

Jimmer would be a fine pickup. To be fair -- I think he's better than I've been giving him credit for. He's more than decent off the dribble, he can handle it just fine, he can set up others and obviously the man's a very good shooter.

My only concern now with Clark and maybe Fredette as the two signings -- I question whether this is nothing more than a rental with each guy. Both guys have a certain amount of NBA experience under their belts and that may work against us here. If both manage to play well the rest of the way, I doubt very much either guy would agree to re-up on a vet minimum contract before the year's out, something I was kind of counting on if we would've gotten less experienced yet equally talented players to fill these two spots. I feel like if they play well they would in effect use the Knicks to score a decent contract, perhaps too rich for our blood eventually. Or, the other alternative would be to use part of the mid-level exception on both guys. But is that something we want to do? If we got Ebanks and Seth Curry though, DL guys that would be happy they're even in the show and happy they stepped into some better money, maybe we automatically sign each guy to a 2 or 3-yr deal right off the bat, insuring they will remain with the team for the foreseeable future, leaving the MLE open to sign additional help. Then again Ebanks has prior NBA experience with the Lakers -- he probably wouldn't accept something like that either.

Anyone feel what I'm saying? Definitely don't want to see another Chris Copeland here -- a guy who played well and bolted on us for more money than we could afford at the time. I'd try to safeguard against something like that happening again -- I feel even younger, less experienced players that could potentially supply the same things as Clark & Fredette might prove to be cheaper and better buys in the long run. I dunno -- maybe I'm looking at this wrong but think about it, suppose both play well -- what if Jimmer, the hometown kid, comes in super inspired and plays out of his mind and becomes a sensation, say something akin to Linsanity? How would we keep him then? Now if Seth Curry came in and showed he's got the right stuff -- after 10 or 20 days he might be willing to sign a 2 or 3-yr deal for the minimum. I mean the earlier the better---on our end, hypothetically speaking if we really believed in him as a player, maybe we sign him to a 2 or 3-yr deal right off the bat, before he even plays a game. Jimmer's not accepting those terms though. That's the difference. Just thinking in terms of being capped out and adding every ounce of talent we possibly can given that situation.

I can't see these moves being made with making the playoffs still in mind. I think that ship sailed....So if these are 'take a flyer on some young talent' type moves, why even bother if it's nothing more than a rental if they play well?? Any thoughts?

BRIGGS wrote:The whole key of making the *Carmelo* Anthony Knicks a good team is by fitting players with synergistic skill sets around him. Jimmer would provide *Steve Kerr* type play--knock down 3 ball--is able to handle the ball find the open man and make his shots. On top of it Jimmer has the ability to get to the basket. Kerr was not a great defender but he was part of great team defense. Its harder to guard Carmelo with an expanded floor where the other team needs to spread out. The more players that can hit open shots--the less load Carmelo has.

He would be good fit if we had a solid defensive team, but for all his offense he's just too much of liability on D..I was just on a kings board browsing, and 90% of the fans love the guy, but was happy to cut him.

He'd fit right in

He would be comparable to a Novak/PABLO in some ways that has not proved himself but in the G position (so not being able to penetrate and defend a position)

But

His ability to spread the floor would open things up for Melo and the rest of the team IF he can regain confidence in his game along with Tim Hardaway JR *who needs to learn to be more efficient and less FORCING/CHUCKING low % shots*

HIT THE OPEN MAN

Can he do the discount double check after makes?

Rookie wrote:Can he do the discount double check after makes?

We need to FOCUS on WINNING, PLAYING TEAM BALL, and NOT DANCING after a shot is made DURING A GAME

We have to get thru this year and next season so we can't really begin thinking about the restructuring of the team in summer of 2015 with these 2 late season pick ups. I say Jimmer fits into a role here as a great floor spreader, which we really missed this year. Most of our issues have been about a lack of scoring this year. We were NEVER a great defensive team last year. We mainly worked like a standard MDA team in that we outscored teams and played timely defense to go on runs. We had a top offense and a middling defense. #3 in offense and #18 in defense which is pretty close to what MDA always did in PHX. This year #12 in offense and #26 in defense. GEEZ that's bad. We can't fix everything with 2 FA pick ups, however, Jimmer could at least help us score more consistently and that's something we could've used in all of these losses. Some made shots to stop the other teams surge back when we had the lead.

Finestrg wrote:Jimmer would be a fine pickup. To be fair -- I think he's better than I've been giving him credit for. He's more than decent off the dribble, he can handle it just fine, he can set up others and obviously the man's a very good shooter.

My only concern now with Clark and maybe Fredette as the two signings -- I question whether this is nothing more than a rental with each guy. Both guys have a certain amount of NBA experience under their belts and that may work against us here. If both manage to play well the rest of the way, I doubt very much either guy would agree to re-up on a vet minimum contract before the year's out, something I was kind of counting on if we would've gotten less experienced yet equally talented players to fill these two spots. I feel like if they play well they would in effect use the Knicks to score a decent contract, perhaps too rich for our blood eventually. Or, the other alternative would be to use part of the mid-level exception on both guys. But is that something we want to do? If we got Ebanks and Seth Curry though, DL guys that would be happy they're even in the show and happy they stepped into some better money, maybe we automatically sign each guy to a 2 or 3-yr deal right off the bat, insuring they will remain with the team for the foreseeable future, leaving the MLE open to sign additional help. I mean Ebanks has prior NBA experience with the Lakers -- he probably wouldn't accept something like that either.

Anyone feel what I'm saying? Definitely don't want to see another Chris Copeland here -- a guy who played well and bolted on us for more money than we could afford at the time. I'd try to safeguard against something like that happening again -- I feel even younger, less experienced players that could potentially supply the same things as Clark & Fredette might prove to be cheaper and better buys in the long run. I dunno -- maybe I'm looking at this wrong but think about it, suppose both play well -- what if Jimmer, the hometown kid, comes in super inspired and plays out of his mind and becomes a sensation, say something akin to Linsanity? How would we keep him then? Now if Seth Curry came in and showed he's got the right stuff -- after 10 or 20 days he might be willing to sign a 2 or 3-yr deal for the minimum. I mean the earlier the better---on our end, hypothetically speaking if we really believed in him as a player, maybe we sign him to a 2 or 3-yr deal right off the bat, before he even plays a game. Jimmer's not accepting those terms though. That's the difference. Just thinking in terms of being capped out and adding every ounce of talent we possibly can given that situation.

I can't see these moves being made with making the playoffs still in mind. I think that ship sailed....So if these are 'take a flyer on some young talent' type moves, why even bother if it's nothing more than a rental if they play well?? Any thoughts?

I concur though I would like to see how we would play with a LEGIT SF rather than playing a SG at SF in addition to a PG that cannot defend his own man, or/and another PG/SG that cannot defend either position in Felton/Pablo

Pablo's inability to penetrate hurts but he does direct the OFFENSE, telling people where to go for good spacing, and has the best facilitating skills (though it isn't saying much)
Having another man that can hit wide open shots, would change our OFFENSE PHILOSOPHY though, especially when Chandler is not on the floor

RonRon wrote:

Rookie wrote:Can he do the discount double check after makes?

We need to FOCUS on WINNING, PLAYING TEAM BALL, and NOT DANCING after a shot is made DURING A GAME

Your shortest post...EVER!

You mean no confetti after we avoid being swept in the playoffs?

nixluva wrote:We have to get thru this year and next season so we can't really begin thinking about the restructuring of the team in summer of 2015 with these 2 late season pick ups. I say Jimmer fits into a role here as a great floor spreader, which we really missed this year. Most of our issues have been about a lack of scoring this year. We were NEVER a great defensive team last year. We mainly worked like a standard MDA team in that we outscored teams and played timely defense to go on runs. We had a top offense and a middling defense. #3 in offense and #18 in defense which is pretty close to what MDA always did in PHX. This year #12 in offense and #26 in defense. GEEZ that's bad. We can't fix everything with 2 FA pick ups, however, Jimmer could at least help us score more consistently and that's something we could've used in all of these losses. Some made shots to stop the other teams surge back when we had the lead.

It would help us build a better philosophy to run on OFF, also would help Woodson's favorite play (ISO BALL) with shooters to space the floor and hitting the open man at times
We loss many close games this year and I hope we would hope we see less of

Melo
AB
Chandler

because they are HORRIBLE together, they are really slow, and are not good rebounders/shot blockers, and defenders, despite having "SIZE"
It is just a HORRIBLE FIT

Jimmer cannot defend his own man

Ha! I keep forgetting Bargs is on this team

If anyone thinks were losing games because of scoring, your just as blind as Woodson. We can't finish games, we can't sustain leads, and we make horrible decisions in the clutch from a coaching stand point.

melo is scoring 30+ these days and shootin 50%, but why in the hell was in guarding Dirk in the finally possession.

Were just not a smart team and it has nothing to do with talent (for the most part) we make poor decisions, we lack LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION.

We stop playing to win games, we play not to lose games, we have no poise when teams make a run (which is so common in the nba) we rush shots, gamble on D, we guard the ball instead of the man, Our guards get sucked into the paint and constantly go under screens and picks, and switching, always leaving their man for a wide open 3..in the last week alone Vince, scott, jimmer, mike miller, olapido torched us

Every single game a role player has a career night or a season high..THATS A CLEAR LACK OF SCOUTING, PREPARATION, AND ADJUSTING. Not the lack of a guy who can space the floor..

knicks1248 wrote:If anyone thinks were losing games because of scoring, your just as blind as Woodson. We can't finish games, we can't sustain leads, and we make horrible decisions in the clutch from a coaching stand point.

melo is scoring 30+ these days and shootin 50%, but why in the hell was in guarding Dirk in the finally possession.

Were just not a smart team and it has nothing to do with talent (for the most part) we make poor decisions, we lack LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION.

We stop playing to win games, we play not to lose games, we have no poise when teams make a run (which is so common in the nba) we rush shots, gamble on D, we guard the ball instead of the man, Our guards get sucked into the paint and constantly go under screens and picks, and switching, always leaving their man for a wide open 3..in the last week alone Vince, scott, jimmer, mike miller, olapido torched us

Every single game a role player has a career night or a season high..THATS A CLEAR LACK OF SCOUTING, PREPARATION, AND ADJUSTING. Not the lack of a guy who can space the floor..

word

knicks1248 wrote:If anyone thinks were losing games because of scoring, your just as blind as Woodson. We can't finish games, we can't sustain leads, and we make horrible decisions in the clutch from a coaching stand point.

melo is scoring 30+ these days and shootin 50%, but why in the hell was in guarding Dirk in the finally possession.

Were just not a smart team and it has nothing to do with talent (for the most part) we make poor decisions, we lack LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION.

We stop playing to win games, we play not to lose games, we have no poise when teams make a run (which is so common in the nba) we rush shots, gamble on D, we guard the ball instead of the man, Our guards get sucked into the paint and constantly go under screens and picks, and switching, always leaving their man for a wide open 3..in the last week alone Vince, scott, jimmer, mike miller, olapido torched us

Every single game a role player has a career night or a season high..THATS A CLEAR LACK OF SCOUTING, PREPARATION, AND ADJUSTING. Not the lack of a guy who can space the floor..

I thought Melo played very good DEF on that last play, he was giving effort, and he actually did harass Dirk
Dirk made the shot, it was a tough loss, but I think he would have done a better job than Chandler *too slow*
ONLY POSSIBLE DEFENDER that may do a better job is Tyler with his size/length/athleticism
Kmart is probably our best player to put on him BUT he is even too small to defend a jump shooter of Dirk's caliber

Dirk is a tough cover for 97% of players in the league as a 7footer, with a handle/quick first step, a mid range post game, and is very skilled period on top of his build/size
We don't have very talented players, we should have done something much earlier with Chris Smith, Udrih, MWP *WAS DONE, JAMES JOHNSON is 10x better*, Alrich, and all of our PG's that cannot defend any position

It is tough to swallow but Melo's DEF THAT PLAY wasn't why we lost the game, it was a very lucky shot by Dirk and a friendly tip if you ask me....
Dallas is the much more talented team though, considering our inability to stop G's from penetrating, defending the 3pter, we are very lucky we got back in the game
On top of OUR COACH SUCKS

RonRon wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If anyone thinks were losing games because of scoring, your just as blind as Woodson. We can't finish games, we can't sustain leads, and we make horrible decisions in the clutch from a coaching stand point.

melo is scoring 30+ these days and shootin 50%, but why in the hell was in guarding Dirk in the finally possession.

Were just not a smart team and it has nothing to do with talent (for the most part) we make poor decisions, we lack LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION.

We stop playing to win games, we play not to lose games, we have no poise when teams make a run (which is so common in the nba) we rush shots, gamble on D, we guard the ball instead of the man, Our guards get sucked into the paint and constantly go under screens and picks, and switching, always leaving their man for a wide open 3..in the last week alone Vince, scott, jimmer, mike miller, olapido torched us

Every single game a role player has a career night or a season high..THATS A CLEAR LACK OF SCOUTING, PREPARATION, AND ADJUSTING. Not the lack of a guy who can space the floor..

I thought Melo played very good DEF on that last play, he was giving effort, and he actually did harass Dirk
Dirk made the shot, it was a tough loss, but I think he would have done a better job than Chandler *too slow*
ONLY POSSIBLE DEFENDER that may do a better job is Tyler with his size/length/athleticism
Kmart is probably our best player to put on him BUT he is even too small to defend a jump shooter of Dirk's caliber

Dirk is a tough cover for 97% of players in the league as a 7footer, with a handle/quick first step, a mid range post game, and is very skilled period on top of his build/size
We don't have very talented players, we should have done something much earlier with Chris Smith, Udrih, MWP *WAS DONE, JAMES JOHNSON is 10x better*, Alrich, and all of our PG's that cannot defend any position

It is tough to swallow but Melo's DEF THAT PLAY wasn't why we lost the game, it was a very lucky shot by Dirk and a friendly tip if you ask me....
Dallas is the much more talented team though, considering our inability to stop G's from penetrating, defending the 3pter, we are very lucky we got back in the game
On top of OUR COACH SUCKS

Here we have TYSON chandler Our suppose best big man defender, not to mention that he was dirks teammate so he should know every move dirk has.

TYSON CHANDLER WAS GUARDING BRANDAN FKNG WRIGHT...lol..i'm sorry was he our biggest threat, miss that scouting report..

dirk had 9 seconds and at least got up a shot, we had 24 seconds and hoisted up a contested prayer..

Way to go woodson, let's put 6-8 melo (who's been doing all your scoring) to defend the best 7 foot jump shooting big man in the league, while our own 7 footer/best defender guards little use 6 9' brandan wright..

Lets watch jimmer switch off on dirk per woodson

Dirk can beat Chandler off the dribble and NO ONE can help Chandler if so, Chandler is the only help DEFENDER
Chandler was defending Dirk earlier in the game with no success

Chandler is a bit older now, less mobile, if he tries to defend Dirk's shot, one fake and Chandler we be beat.....
While Brandon Wright isn't very tall, he has a VERY LONG WINGSPAN, it is a mismatch either way, Amare is horrible 1v1 DEF, and the only other option is Tyler
I think Tyler should play more but Woodson doesn't think so....

Rookie wrote:Ha! I keep forgetting Bargs is on this team

Ha, so do I. I think he's going to need surgery- if so recovery time is one year. The good think is doesn't insurance kick in after a certain amount of time and start paying his salary- could make him a nice trade chip next year.

RonRon wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If anyone thinks were losing games because of scoring, your just as blind as Woodson. We can't finish games, we can't sustain leads, and we make horrible decisions in the clutch from a coaching stand point.

melo is scoring 30+ these days and shootin 50%, but why in the hell was in guarding Dirk in the finally possession.

Were just not a smart team and it has nothing to do with talent (for the most part) we make poor decisions, we lack LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION.

We stop playing to win games, we play not to lose games, we have no poise when teams make a run (which is so common in the nba) we rush shots, gamble on D, we guard the ball instead of the man, Our guards get sucked into the paint and constantly go under screens and picks, and switching, always leaving their man for a wide open 3..in the last week alone Vince, scott, jimmer, mike miller, olapido torched us

Every single game a role player has a career night or a season high..THATS A CLEAR LACK OF SCOUTING, PREPARATION, AND ADJUSTING. Not the lack of a guy who can space the floor..

I thought Melo played very good DEF on that last play, he was giving effort, and he actually did harass Dirk
Dirk made the shot, it was a tough loss, but I think he would have done a better job than Chandler *too slow*
ONLY POSSIBLE DEFENDER that may do a better job is Tyler with his size/length/athleticism
Kmart is probably our best player to put on him BUT he is even too small to defend a jump shooter of Dirk's caliber

Dirk is a tough cover for 97% of players in the league as a 7footer, with a handle/quick first step, a mid range post game, and is very skilled period on top of his build/size
We don't have very talented players, we should have done something much earlier with Chris Smith, Udrih, MWP *WAS DONE, JAMES JOHNSON is 10x better*, Alrich, and all of our PG's that cannot defend any position

It is tough to swallow but Melo's DEF THAT PLAY wasn't why we lost the game, it was a very lucky shot by Dirk and a friendly tip if you ask me....
Dallas is the much more talented team though, considering our inability to stop G's from penetrating, defending the 3pter, we are very lucky we got back in the game
On top of OUR COACH SUCKS

+1, even though those in the know realize Melo is responsible for every loss. And every inability of his teammates. And our coach suhucking. And our owner's incompentence. And 911. And the Kennedy Assasination. And the Hindenberg.

You notice what hasn't been whined about? 29 shots to get 44 points. Melo still sucks. No better than Marbury. Or Stevie Franchise. Or Greg Butler.

Actually, Butler probably played better D.

Looks like his buyout will be done today. Memphis is out, Chicago and Cleveland interested. Knicks still possible, but watch out for the Clippers stepping in with the Crawford injury