Give the Knicks Calderón and Sam Dalembert....
Dallas does this more because they want the salary cap relief for 2015.
The Knicks get a very efficient and triangle friendly point guard in Calderón. Plus an adequate replacement for Tyson in Dalembert.
I like it. Calderon is really good. Dalembert is ok also. He and Cole are a reasonable rotation for lane clogging 5s.
Triangle requires a center with great passing instincts and hoops IQ, don't it? Still, not a bad deal considering the chump Tyson has become.
Moonangie wrote:Triangle requires a center with great passing instincts and hoops IQ, don't it? Still, not a bad deal considering the chump Tyson has become.
Bill Cartwright, bill wennington, will purdue, Scott williams....
Dalembert makes 1/4th of what Tyson makes.
nuff said
I like it, but since we are taking on a longer contract in Calderon, I would like a pick as well. 2nd rounder would be fine.
Not crazy about it. Calderon took a step back last year and that's likely to continue at $7.3M per the next three years. I'd rather let Tyson come off the books.
No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
marginal losses resulted in 54 wins to 37 wins. Do you really think this is a 37 win team? Calderon doesnt have to be Nash... run some plays, hit the 3s and get into the paint to create a bit... all in Calderon's wheelhouse, all simple things our PGs utterly failed to do last year.
I hear you on the salary, but more and more Im thinking we dont go the cap space route, rather we trade for longer more expensive guys to upgrade the roster. I dont think Phil risks swinging and missing in FA, and thats a real possibility. If we let everyone come off the books after getting Melo to take a bit less to add another max and a half guy, and we cant get a star in here the Phil Jackson era just became more of the same.
VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
It doesn't have to be a PG. You could have a worse PG but at a better deal (slightly worse but vet min, for example) and use the $7 mil elsewhere. I think of Calderone as a slightly below average player. Some of the stats indicate he gives up more than he scores. I think he's worth closer to 4 to 5 mil now but that will go down as he ages. I'm not going to go through the entire league looking at salaries to list better deals, though. I've only posted once or twice in the past week because work is keeping me busy. If you or anyone has a list of PGs with their salaries, I'll give my thoughts.
I'd go with Larkin and 2015 1st and the TPE. If not Larkin then the 2014 2nd.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
Exactly, lets save all our $ for 2015, and end up signing some below avg pg like felton.
what kind of core are we going to have in 2015, I thought the object is to add a significant piece or 2 to the puzzle, not to assemble an entire roster that needs 2 to 3 yr to grow and build chemistry.
fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
marginal losses resulted in 54 wins to 37 wins. Do you really think this is a 37 win team? Calderon doesnt have to be Nash... run some plays, hit the 3s and get into the paint to create a bit... all in Calderon's wheelhouse, all simple things our PGs utterly failed to do last year.I hear you on the salary, but more and more Im thinking we dont go the cap space route, rather we trade for longer more expensive guys to upgrade the roster. I dont think Phil risks swinging and missing in FA, and thats a real possibility. If we let everyone come off the books after getting Melo to take a bit less to add another max and a half guy, and we cant get a star in here the Phil Jackson era just became more of the same.
The last four seasons we've finished with 42, 44(equivalent), 54, and 37 wins. I believe that the 54 win season is an aberration and we shouldn't be basing decisions using that year as a baseline; we've been a bad/mediocre team for three out of the last four years with one random good year. And are we making this trade before or after Melo resigns? Because if it's just a ploy to get Melo to resign then it's an even worse trade.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
Exactly, lets save all our $ for 2015, and end up signing some below avg pg like felton.
what kind of core are we going to have in 2015, I thought the object is to add a significant piece or 2 to the puzzle, not to assemble an entire roster that needs 2 to 3 yr to grow and build chemistry.
We don't have a core to build around, we're a bad basketball team. The Summer of 2015 is hopefully going to be a full rebuild but that might not be possible.
VCoug wrote:fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
marginal losses resulted in 54 wins to 37 wins. Do you really think this is a 37 win team? Calderon doesnt have to be Nash... run some plays, hit the 3s and get into the paint to create a bit... all in Calderon's wheelhouse, all simple things our PGs utterly failed to do last year.I hear you on the salary, but more and more Im thinking we dont go the cap space route, rather we trade for longer more expensive guys to upgrade the roster. I dont think Phil risks swinging and missing in FA, and thats a real possibility. If we let everyone come off the books after getting Melo to take a bit less to add another max and a half guy, and we cant get a star in here the Phil Jackson era just became more of the same.
The last four seasons we've finished with 42, 44(equivalent), 54, and 37 wins. I believe that the 54 win season is an aberration and we shouldn't be basing decisions using that year as a baseline; we've been a bad/mediocre team for three out of the last four years with one random good year. And are we making this trade before or after Melo resigns? Because if it's just a ploy to get Melo to resign then it's an even worse trade.
so for the first three years since the Melo trade we were getting better each year, including adding wins in the plaoffs going from sweep to a couple wins to the 2nd round. Also this is the first year after 10ish in the league Melo's team has a 1) had a losing record and 2) failed to make the playoffs. Considering the performance by the rest of the roster I would say the 37 wins is close to an aberration the other seasons.
We dont need a star PG to get back to 45-50 wins. Just a quality player. Calderon would certainly fit all the needs. He's very consistent. Maybe not the highest ceiling but we need to upgrade first and get back to quality play.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
It doesn't have to be a PG. You could have a worse PG but at a better deal (slightly worse but vet min, for example) and use the $7 mil elsewhere. I think of Calderone as a slightly below average player. Some of the stats indicate he gives up more than he scores. I think he's worth closer to 4 to 5 mil now but that will go down as he ages. I'm not going to go through the entire league looking at salaries to list better deals, though. I've only posted once or twice in the past week because work is keeping me busy. If you or anyone has a list of PGs with their salaries, I'll give my thoughts.
so this post falls under the category of "I dont like your idea, but have nothing better to offer"
Got it.
fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
marginal losses resulted in 54 wins to 37 wins. Do you really think this is a 37 win team? Calderon doesnt have to be Nash... run some plays, hit the 3s and get into the paint to create a bit... all in Calderon's wheelhouse, all simple things our PGs utterly failed to do last year.I hear you on the salary, but more and more Im thinking we dont go the cap space route, rather we trade for longer more expensive guys to upgrade the roster. I dont think Phil risks swinging and missing in FA, and thats a real possibility. If we let everyone come off the books after getting Melo to take a bit less to add another max and a half guy, and we cant get a star in here the Phil Jackson era just became more of the same.
The last four seasons we've finished with 42, 44(equivalent), 54, and 37 wins. I believe that the 54 win season is an aberration and we shouldn't be basing decisions using that year as a baseline; we've been a bad/mediocre team for three out of the last four years with one random good year. And are we making this trade before or after Melo resigns? Because if it's just a ploy to get Melo to resign then it's an even worse trade.
so for the first three years since the Melo trade we were getting better each year, including adding wins in the plaoffs going from sweep to a couple wins to the 2nd round. Also this is the first year after 10ish in the league Melo's team has a 1) had a losing record and 2) failed to make the playoffs. Considering the performance by the rest of the roster I would say the 37 wins is close to an aberration the other seasons.We dont need a star PG to get back to 45-50 wins. Just a quality player. Calderon would certainly fit all the needs. He's very consistent. Maybe not the highest ceiling but we need to upgrade first and get back to quality play.
We were already improved before Melo got here so we only got better for 2 seasons and the second season we were 8-15 before Lin saved us. And really, there wasn't much improvement from year 1 to year 2: in year 1 we won 51% of our regular season games and won 0 playoff games; in year 2 we won 54% in the regular season and won 1 playoff game. I would say that isn't improvement and that both years were virtually identical.
I don't want to get to 45-50 wins. I want to win, or at least compete for, a championship. That's what this is all about; not being pretty good for a few seasons and being forgotten. It's about being the absolute best team in the world for 1 year.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:VCoug wrote:No, there's no reason to be taking on salary past next season unless we're getting something else back as well, such as picks or good players on rookie contracts. Marginally improving a 37-win team doesn't accomplish anything for us.
Exactly. It wasn't a bad trade idea. I spent some time thinking about it. Calderone is an adequate player but not good enough to justify taking on another $20 mil in salary IMO. With cap space in a year, we should be able to get something better for $7 mil per than Calderone.
Like who? Have another PG signed in the last few years you can use as a context?
It doesn't have to be a PG. You could have a worse PG but at a better deal (slightly worse but vet min, for example) and use the $7 mil elsewhere. I think of Calderone as a slightly below average player. Some of the stats indicate he gives up more than he scores. I think he's worth closer to 4 to 5 mil now but that will go down as he ages. I'm not going to go through the entire league looking at salaries to list better deals, though. I've only posted once or twice in the past week because work is keeping me busy. If you or anyone has a list of PGs with their salaries, I'll give my thoughts.
so this post falls under the category of "I dont like your idea, but have nothing better to offer"Got it.
If that's how you want to interpret it, fine. Most people here don't post alternative trades every time they disagree with a trade. It doesn't look like anyone here did actually. Nor did the OP solicit such info. It's a little odd (but not surprising) that you only made this comment to my post.
I think you can get an upgrade without taking on Calderon and I'm not sure Dallas would give him up anyway. A pg as bad offensively as Felton but with better D is an upgrade.
