Knicks · Tyson & Felton to Dallas (page 5)
yellowboy90 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would a win now team take Calderon? There are several teams that could use him as a back up pg. The Blazers, Clippers, Indy, Miami, Houston, and etc.Phil might not be done yet....
I don't think any of those teams has the luxury of paying $7M per to a backup.The dude shot 46% and 45% from three over the last two years. That will always make him attractive. He is the pg version of Kyle Korver right now but he can handle the ball.
Yes, Calderon WAS a good player to have around but are you really going to want him at $7.8 million when he is 36 years old and no franchise player around?
Bravo Phil, thanks for giving us all a reason to watch draft night!
Also we get rid of Felton.
gunsnewing wrote:Agree about getting rid of Tyson and Felton. Also, I believe Larkin was hurt (broken leg?) for a good part of last season. Larkin is a high character guy, had a 44 inch vertical at the combine last year, and was seen by some as the future point guard for Dallas. I think Calderon is a huge upgrade. I think he improves Bargs game and makes the game easier for Melo if he stays.BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would a win now team take Calderon? There are several teams that could use him as a back up pg. The Blazers, Clippers, Indy, Miami, Houston, and etc.Phil might not be done yet....
I don't think any of those teams has the luxury of paying $7M per to a backup.No but as an expiring down the road he will. We just got someone to take Raymond James Felton off our hands for crying out loud. Maybe Calderon is packaged with Bargnani!
nyvector16 wrote:The only negative of the deal for the Knicks is the extra salary...
Let's break that down...
Next Season - 15/16 Season - 16/17 Season
Felton - 4.3M - 4.5M -
Calderon - 7M - 7.4M - 7.7MDifference: 2.7M - 2.9M - 7.7M
This amount to a total of 13.3M total....
And we got a 2013 1st rounder, TWO 2014 2nd rounders , and a big upgrade at Point guard
I don't see how this was anything but a steal....
It's because you're playing the short game and have not taken into consideration the long term ramifications of the deal. This is the type of dumb moves we made in the past that led us to Amar'e Stoudemire and squandered Melo's prime.
Dallas is trying to recreate 2010 for one more to around with Dirk. If it doesn't work they will gladly let Tyson come off the books and rebuild in a year
nyvector16 wrote:The only negative of the deal for the Knicks is the extra salary...
Let's break that down...
Player - Next Season - 15/16 Season - 16/17 Season
Felton - 4.3M - 4.5M -
Calderon - 7M - 7.4M - 7.7MDifference: 2.7M - 2.9M - 7.7M
This amount to a total of 13.3M total....
And we got a 2013 1st rounder, TWO 2014 2nd rounders , and a big upgrade at Point guard
I don't see how this was anything but a steal....
I think you are right. Thrilled with Phil's first move.
yellowboy90 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would a win now team take Calderon? There are several teams that could use him as a back up pg. The Blazers, Clippers, Indy, Miami, Houston, and etc.Phil might not be done yet....
I don't think any of those teams has the luxury of paying $7M per to a backup.The dude shot 46% and 45% from three over the last two years. That will always make him attractive. He is the pg version of Kyle Korver right now but he can handle the ball.
Yup and you need a pg who can shoot in the triangle and doesn't dominate the ball. Defense and age is definitely a concern but he might not be here for the entire 3yr duration of his contract
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: Chris Herring @HerringWSJ · 11m
I'm hearing the Knicks are trying to move Dalembert and Larkin in a separate deal, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Click here to view the Tweet
yellowboy90 wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: Chris Herring @HerringWSJ · 11m
I'm hearing the Knicks are trying to move Dalembert and Larkin in a separate deal, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Click here to view the Tweet
Really? Larkin is the only person in this deal that I was excited about lol I'll reserve judgment until everything is finalized.
yellowboy90 wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: Chris Herring @HerringWSJ · 11m
I'm hearing the Knicks are trying to move Dalembert and Larkin in a separate deal, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Click here to view the Tweet
Wow Herring does not mess around. Those 2 guys in a package can maybe net us a great PG. Maybe Lowry or Bledsoe????
Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler
[#34][#51]
EwingsGlass wrote:I would guess this is a clear sign that Melo is signing elsewhere. I see this as an economic move that acquires some future assets. More importantly, it means the Knicks can actually be under the cap this year if they end up cutting Dalembert (meaning not exercising his option).Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler[#34][#51]
Even with Melo and Dalembert not on the payroll, we'd still have $64 million of contracts on the books. The cap is at $63 million and I'm not sure if we can get far enough below it for cap space to be consequential. That being said, Pau Gasol is not signing up for the midlevel exception to play for a rebuilding team. It just isn't going to happen.
NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I would guess this is a clear sign that Melo is signing elsewhere. I see this as an economic move that acquires some future assets. More importantly, it means the Knicks can actually be under the cap this year if they end up cutting Dalembert (meaning not exercising his option).Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler[#34][#51]
Even with Melo and Dalembert not on the payroll, we'd still have $64 million of contracts on the books. The cap is at $63 million and I'm not sure if we can get far enough below it for cap space to be consequential. That being said, Pau Gasol is not signing up for the midlevel exception to play for a rebuilding team. It just isn't going to happen.
Perhaps my math is off, but I believe cutting Dalembert brings us down to $61MM. Regardless, even if over by $1mm -$2mm, that can be solved with a move or two. The purpose of being under the cap wouldnt be to sign other players, but instead to not be a repeat offender next year in terms of exceeding the cap.
EwingsGlass wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I would guess this is a clear sign that Melo is signing elsewhere. I see this as an economic move that acquires some future assets. More importantly, it means the Knicks can actually be under the cap this year if they end up cutting Dalembert (meaning not exercising his option).Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler[#34][#51]
Even with Melo and Dalembert not on the payroll, we'd still have $64 million of contracts on the books. The cap is at $63 million and I'm not sure if we can get far enough below it for cap space to be consequential. That being said, Pau Gasol is not signing up for the midlevel exception to play for a rebuilding team. It just isn't going to happen.
Perhaps my math is off, but I believe cutting Dalembert brings us down to $61MM. Regardless, even if over by $1mm -$2mm, that can be solved with a move or two. The purpose of being under the cap wouldnt be to sign other players, but instead to not be a repeat offender next year in terms of exceeding the cap.
Who cares if we're a repeat offender? I'm not footing the bill? Are you?
NardDogNation wrote:nyvector16 wrote:The only negative of the deal for the Knicks is the extra salary...
Let's break that down...
Next Season - 15/16 Season - 16/17 Season
Felton - 4.3M - 4.5M -
Calderon - 7M - 7.4M - 7.7MDifference: 2.7M - 2.9M - 7.7M
This amount to a total of 13.3M total....
And we got a 2013 1st rounder, TWO 2014 2nd rounders , and a big upgrade at Point guard
I don't see how this was anything but a steal....It's because you're playing the short game and have not taken into consideration the long term ramifications of the deal. This is the type of dumb moves we made in the past that led us to Amar'e Stoudemire and squandered Melo's prime.
no it isn't. Does Calderon have bad knees? No. Has he had previous surgeries? No. Is his game predicated on athleticism? No. He's a heady floor general and a shooter.
Please tell me what the long term ramifications are? Seriously, Jose has a great contract. He's paid probably below market value. Jose is making 7.7mm at 36. Not $25mm. I cant see what the issue is with having this guy around for that price. Honestly... what is your concern?
EwingsGlass wrote:I would guess this is a clear sign that Melo is signing elsewhere. I see this as an economic move that acquires some future assets. More importantly, it means the Knicks can actually be under the cap this year if they end up cutting Dalembert (meaning not exercising his option).Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler[#34][#51]
I don't think even Melo knows what he is going to decide. He wants a team to blow him away and make the decision for him. If not then he will just come back to the Knicks.
NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I would guess this is a clear sign that Melo is signing elsewhere. I see this as an economic move that acquires some future assets. More importantly, it means the Knicks can actually be under the cap this year if they end up cutting Dalembert (meaning not exercising his option).Correct me if I am wrong, but being under the cap this year would allow us to not be in the repeater tax penalty for a few years after the 2015 class comes out. So, by biting the bullet this year and rebuilding this year, they can have 3 years more of exceeding the salary cap without higher luxury tax.
I think the Calderon contract is moveable still before the trade deadline. Perhaps the hope is Calderon can bring the best back out of Bargnani.
I like the deal, but wonder what this year will look like in terms of rebuilding.
By my estimations, this leaves one roster spot. I would expect to see one more triangle player. My prediction, is that Gasol maybe ends up here on a relationship special.
Calderon/Larkin/Prigs
Hardaway/Smith/Ellington
Odom/Shumpert
Bargnani/Stoudemire
[Gasol][Dalembert?]/Tyler[#34][#51]
Even with Melo and Dalembert not on the payroll, we'd still have $64 million of contracts on the books. The cap is at $63 million and I'm not sure if we can get far enough below it for cap space to be consequential. That being said, Pau Gasol is not signing up for the midlevel exception to play for a rebuilding team. It just isn't going to happen.
Perhaps my math is off, but I believe cutting Dalembert brings us down to $61MM. Regardless, even if over by $1mm -$2mm, that can be solved with a move or two. The purpose of being under the cap wouldnt be to sign other players, but instead to not be a repeat offender next year in terms of exceeding the cap.
Who cares if we're a repeat offender? I'm not footing the bill? Are you?
If it means we have greater ability to add salary in 2015-2018, yeah, I care. The Knicks pockets are deep, not unlimited.
fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nyvector16 wrote:The only negative of the deal for the Knicks is the extra salary...
Let's break that down...
Next Season - 15/16 Season - 16/17 Season
Felton - 4.3M - 4.5M -
Calderon - 7M - 7.4M - 7.7MDifference: 2.7M - 2.9M - 7.7M
This amount to a total of 13.3M total....
And we got a 2013 1st rounder, TWO 2014 2nd rounders , and a big upgrade at Point guard
I don't see how this was anything but a steal....It's because you're playing the short game and have not taken into consideration the long term ramifications of the deal. This is the type of dumb moves we made in the past that led us to Amar'e Stoudemire and squandered Melo's prime.
no it isn't. Does Calderon have bad knees? No. Has he had previous surgeries? No. Is his game predicated on athleticism? No. He's a heady floor general and a shooter.Please tell me what the long term ramifications are? Seriously, Jose has a great contract. He's paid probably below market value. Jose is making 7.7mm at 36. Not $25mm. I cant see what the issue is with having this guy around for that price. Honestly... what is your concern?
Calderon is 33 years old. That is exactly when the wheels fall off for guards unless your name is Jason Kidd, Steve Nash or John Stockton, who had tons of game to spare in their advanced age. Calderon is a role player at best, however, so I'm not expecting him to maintain his current level of play, which wasn't that impressive to begin with (11ppg, 4.7apg and 2.4apg). At this point in his career, he is a bench player for a contender but at $7 million/yr, he is more of a hindrance than an asset. Just for perspective, Manu Ginobili, a guy who will be in the HOF one day is making $7 million/yr coming off the bench. Calderon is no Ginobili and I don't even like Ginobili at this stage of his career.