Knicks · Would you pay Melo the max he could get if that's what it took to bring him back. (page 3)
actofgod wrote:I would not give him the max. If Lebron isn't taking the max why the heck should Carmelo? Signing guys to max contracts is what makes it hard/impossible to surround them with quality teammates. The max contract should be a rarity, not the standard for great players.
I can't imagine how pissed the majority of NBA players are right now an how ecstatic the Owners are. The players have willingly decided not to be paid creating a negative attitude within the NBA fanbase at any player that wishes to get a max contract.
Vmart wrote:I would consider a max deal for Melo only if he give the Knicks a team option in year three of contract.
Max deal only if Melo gets a vote for Defensive player of the year and averages 5 assists a game
My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
Jmpasq wrote:actofgod wrote:I would not give him the max. If Lebron isn't taking the max why the heck should Carmelo? Signing guys to max contracts is what makes it hard/impossible to surround them with quality teammates. The max contract should be a rarity, not the standard for great players.I can't imagine how pissed the majority of NBA players are right now an how ecstatic the Owners are. The players have willingly decided not to be paid creating a negative attitude within the NBA fanbase at any player that wishes to get a max contract.
if those players were win-first players and not money-first players then they would simply work within the present system until the next opportunity to change the cba comes around. no use in being upset.
how does the fanbase have a negative attitude with these developments? as a fan you WANT players to take paycuts when it means your team has a better chance of winning, especially overrated players.
fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
your post is so filled with false assertions it's hard to know where to begin
dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:actofgod wrote:I would not give him the max. If Lebron isn't taking the max why the heck should Carmelo? Signing guys to max contracts is what makes it hard/impossible to surround them with quality teammates. The max contract should be a rarity, not the standard for great players.I can't imagine how pissed the majority of NBA players are right now an how ecstatic the Owners are. The players have willingly decided not to be paid creating a negative attitude within the NBA fanbase at any player that wishes to get a max contract.
if those players were win-first players and not money-first players then they would simply work within the present system until the next opportunity to change the cba comes around. no use in being upset.
how does the fanbase have a negative attitude with these developments? as a fan you WANT players to take paycuts when it means your team has a better chance of winning, especially overrated players.
Fanbases will be angry if players DON'T take paycuts not if they do. Obviously its good if they take paycuts for the team they are doing it for. Im pointing out how for the majority of the NBA players this is an awful trend. They are driving down their own wages.
Jmpasq wrote:I agree. Associations/unions want their members to be compensated at the max rate allowable. That was what was bargained for. Owners wanted to limit/slow down player movement and set up a system where guys are compensated at a much higher rate if they stay with their team.dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:actofgod wrote:I would not give him the max. If Lebron isn't taking the max why the heck should Carmelo? Signing guys to max contracts is what makes it hard/impossible to surround them with quality teammates. The max contract should be a rarity, not the standard for great players.I can't imagine how pissed the majority of NBA players are right now an how ecstatic the Owners are. The players have willingly decided not to be paid creating a negative attitude within the NBA fanbase at any player that wishes to get a max contract.
if those players were win-first players and not money-first players then they would simply work within the present system until the next opportunity to change the cba comes around. no use in being upset.
how does the fanbase have a negative attitude with these developments? as a fan you WANT players to take paycuts when it means your team has a better chance of winning, especially overrated players.
Fanbases will be angry if players DON'T take paycuts not if they do. Obviously its good if they take paycuts for the team they are doing it for. Im pointing out how for the majority of the NBA players this is an awful trend. They are driving down their own wages.
Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:actofgod wrote:I would not give him the max. If Lebron isn't taking the max why the heck should Carmelo? Signing guys to max contracts is what makes it hard/impossible to surround them with quality teammates. The max contract should be a rarity, not the standard for great players.I can't imagine how pissed the majority of NBA players are right now an how ecstatic the Owners are. The players have willingly decided not to be paid creating a negative attitude within the NBA fanbase at any player that wishes to get a max contract.
if those players were win-first players and not money-first players then they would simply work within the present system until the next opportunity to change the cba comes around. no use in being upset.
how does the fanbase have a negative attitude with these developments? as a fan you WANT players to take paycuts when it means your team has a better chance of winning, especially overrated players.
Fanbases will be angry if players DON'T take paycuts not if they do. Obviously its good if they take paycuts for the team they are doing it for. Im pointing out how for the majority of the NBA players this is an awful trend. They are driving down their own wages.
well which players are the ones taking paycuts? the highest earners are. that's not lamentable that's the salary cap forcing players to make well-informed decisions concerning winning not whoring themselves out to the highest bidder....
StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.StarksEwing1 wrote:tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few ringsBack to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.
Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.
You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.
dk7th wrote:well your the king of making up spew to suit your arguement so Im a bit insulted you recognize your own work in my post. But thanks for your contribution.fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
your post is so filled with false assertions it's hard to know where to begin
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.StarksEwing1 wrote:tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few ringsBack to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.
Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.
You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.
Thank you. Can you please explain to the misinform how Melo is a one demnsional player. How his blks, stls, and defensive rebounding/ reb in general sucked compared to other 3s. Also how he got lit up on defense. Players FG% had to be silly last year against him so I don't want to hear that he has improved over the last few years either.
People need to smarten up.
fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...
sidsanders wrote:fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...
Yes, stinking again without Melo will shock some on here, others will say it's "how you lose that counts!".
Apparently, Chicago, Houston, Dallas and other teams in the league think they can build around Melo. But we know better, since we had one losing season out of four where we were still playoff relevant with 6 games left in the season. Easy to build around? Without the superfriends approach or the one-hit wonder Cuban-lightning-in-a-bottle-singularity, I don't think anything in this league is easy anymore.
Yeah, I sure miss all those seasons of impersonating the pre-Kidd Brooklyn Nyets...and not making the playoffs.
Waiting for the 'Melo drove Lin out of NYC' replies to start piling up...again.
sidsanders wrote:Look at Melo's record in the NBA. Denver was a bottom dwelling lottery team for 5? 8? years before Melo? It was an extended period of time. The drafted him and every season they had a winning record and went to the playoffs. The Knicks were bad for years in a row and we add Melo and suddenly its playoffs 3 out of 4 years and advancing as well once. An oversimplification? Maybe, but there is a large sample size for both the Knicks and Nugs before and after MElo, and both dramatically improved after adding him.fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...
If I could swap Melo with another star/elite player I would not have an issue. Im not half the fan of MElo folks would assume I am. I am a fan of having elite talent and an impact player.
What does it tell you that ALL the teams with cap space or potential cap space trying to build a super team to compete for a title are throwing themselves at Melo?
What I find laughable is the fear of a 35 year old MElo making $20mm a year somehow justifies letting him walk for nothing and pretending that we are better off. Maybe we can start the Durant to NY chatter like we did with Lebron 4 years ago.
One clear trend I have noticed, elite players do not what to go to startups. NY is not a fun place. The media is relentless and nasty. No star is coming here to rescue NY. Melo has taken some good lumps here in NYC and continues to be a good soldier. He can handle it.
My thought process is simple: Im willing to pay market value for my talent. When 4-5 teams are offering your best player the max guess what his market is? The max. I didnt make up the market. The Bulls (12am tomorrow), the Mavs, the Rockets and the Lakers will make the market. If it hurts the Knicks 5 years from now thems the breaks. Show the situation where a team let high caliber talent walk for nothing and that move was the right thing to do.
jrodmc wrote:sidsanders wrote:fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...Yes, stinking again without Melo will shock some on here, others will say it's "how you lose that counts!".
Apparently, Chicago, Houston, Dallas and other teams in the league think they can build around Melo. But we know better, since we had one losing season out of four where we were still playoff relevant with 6 games left in the season. Easy to build around? Without the superfriends approach or the one-hit wonder Cuban-lightning-in-a-bottle-singularity, I don't think anything in this league is easy anymore.
Yeah, I sure miss all those seasons of impersonating the pre-Kidd Brooklyn Nyets...and not making the playoffs.
Waiting for the 'Melo drove Lin out of NYC' replies to start piling up...again.
those teams have some decent parts already, which kinda goes into the SF approach to team building.
im not bothered if they stink or are good or folks like this team/hate em or like anthony or hate the guy. folks take the anthony stuff way to personal. so i hope your response wasnt some attempt to target me into that holy war some of yall have going on here.
If he is NOT willing to take a pay cut, would rather let him walk than pay anything close to a MAX for him, unless he leaves us the ability in
2015-16 (next season) Kevin Love, 2nd tier players, bordeline ALL STAR's, and solid role players, outside of Kevin Love, I would not be interested in paying any realistic FREE agents max money (Kevin Love's would start at about 15-16m (even that I would hope he takes a SLIGHT discount to about 15m per year for first 2 years, don't see players like Aldridge leaving with the success they already have in addition to the near max or max extension
or/and
2016-17 (2 years, when both Durant/Noah can become UFA's)
sidsanders wrote:you nailed it! If I knew hoops, but didnt know a single player in the NBA and I had to run the Knicks I would look at the roster and make damn sure I brought back the guy who gave me 27/8/3 last year, especially when there are a handful of other playoff teams pining to get him.jrodmc wrote:sidsanders wrote:fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...Yes, stinking again without Melo will shock some on here, others will say it's "how you lose that counts!".
Apparently, Chicago, Houston, Dallas and other teams in the league think they can build around Melo. But we know better, since we had one losing season out of four where we were still playoff relevant with 6 games left in the season. Easy to build around? Without the superfriends approach or the one-hit wonder Cuban-lightning-in-a-bottle-singularity, I don't think anything in this league is easy anymore.
Yeah, I sure miss all those seasons of impersonating the pre-Kidd Brooklyn Nyets...and not making the playoffs.
Waiting for the 'Melo drove Lin out of NYC' replies to start piling up...again.
those teams have some decent parts already, which kinda goes into the SF approach to team building.
im not bothered if they stink or are good or folks like this team/hate em or like anthony or hate the guy. folks take the anthony stuff way to personal. so i hope your response wasnt some attempt to target me into that holy war some of yall have going on here.
He's not perfect. Far from it. But productive. All emotion aside I have no problem paying market value to keep my talent. This is not the Knicks bidding against themselves deciding what this guy is worth. We know what his market is. Its 4 years $93mm or whatever the Lakers, Mavs, Rockets and Bulls will all be offering. At this point its that simple for me.
fishmike wrote:sidsanders wrote:Look at Melo's record in the NBA. Denver was a bottom dwelling lottery team for 5? 8? years before Melo? It was an extended period of time. The drafted him and every season they had a winning record and went to the playoffs. The Knicks were bad for years in a row and we add Melo and suddenly its playoffs 3 out of 4 years and advancing as well once. An oversimplification? Maybe, but there is a large sample size for both the Knicks and Nugs before and after MElo, and both dramatically improved after adding him.fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...If I could swap Melo with another star/elite player I would not have an issue. Im not half the fan of MElo folks would assume I am. I am a fan of having elite talent and an impact player.
What does it tell you that ALL the teams with cap space or potential cap space trying to build a super team to compete for a title are throwing themselves at Melo?
What I find laughable is the fear of a 35 year old MElo making $20mm a year somehow justifies letting him walk for nothing and pretending that we are better off. Maybe we can start the Durant to NY chatter like we did with Lebron 4 years ago.
One clear trend I have noticed, elite players do not what to go to startups. NY is not a fun place. The media is relentless and nasty. No star is coming here to rescue NY. Melo has taken some good lumps here in NYC and continues to be a good soldier. He can handle it.
My thought process is simple: Im willing to pay market value for my talent. When 4-5 teams are offering your best player the max guess what his market is? The max. I didnt make up the market. The Bulls (12am tomorrow), the Mavs, the Rockets and the Lakers will make the market. If it hurts the Knicks 5 years from now thems the breaks. Show the situation where a team let high caliber talent walk for nothing and that move was the right thing to do.
i dont think there is any examples of folks walking for nothing and where it works great for the old team, though i cant think of too many times has that really happened.
for the rest, i dont know what jacksons plan is. i suspect he would like more $ to work with and the max wont help him do some of what he wants. no idea if thats a reality or not. if he stays at max, then maybe jackson planned for that and we shall see what he has next.
RonRon wrote:If he is NOT willing to take a pay cut, would rather let him walk than pay anything close to a MAX for him, unless he leaves is somehow able to leave us room inso your in the camp that believes if we let him walk and probably rejoin the lottery that we will have our pick of max level elite guys waiting to sign here. Is that it? If you know something I dont spill it!2015-16 (next season)
or/and
2016-17 (2 years, when both Durant/Noah can become UFA's)
I do believe that another team can SIGN him to a max and be able to contend though, but because of our past deals and how our NYK's roster is, I don't think that is realistic
I did not create the thread
The question is, IF YOU HAVE TO PAY HIM MAX, would I?
my answer is, No
Just because you disagree with my opinion, doesn't give mean you can twist my words around, saying things I didn't say...
sidsanders wrote:I dont think so either. For me this is about the Knicks not Melo. I want to win. I want to have a good team every year. If we arent winning titles I want us at least good enough to attract more elite talent. What do all top tier FAs want? Other top tier players to play with. Funny people around here gush over Morey in Houston, a guy willing to SPEND huge amounts just to get MElo here. Chicago is a cheap org and they will SPEND $16mm to pay Boozer to play somewhere else just to get Melo. But Knick fans (who know more) dont want to pay him market value because....fishmike wrote:sidsanders wrote:Look at Melo's record in the NBA. Denver was a bottom dwelling lottery team for 5? 8? years before Melo? It was an extended period of time. The drafted him and every season they had a winning record and went to the playoffs. The Knicks were bad for years in a row and we add Melo and suddenly its playoffs 3 out of 4 years and advancing as well once. An oversimplification? Maybe, but there is a large sample size for both the Knicks and Nugs before and after MElo, and both dramatically improved after adding him.fishmike wrote:I would pay him. The idea is to get two guys or possibly even three guys like Melo. Even if I pay him the super max I can still add another max guy next year. Also Im not that concerned about having to pay him $20mm when he's turning 35. I find this notion of losing all flexibility because MElo is making $20mm when he's 35 and in the last year of his contract laughable.My #1 desire is to win. Melo for all his faults (and there are plenty) has had exactly one losing season in the league. He plays hurt. His game improves each year and his production is outstanding.
Im not interested in going back to the annual losing and debates over who has the best chance on the roster to ever crack and all star game (David Lee won that pony race) while we win 30ish games every year.
Folks say they are tired of Melo. Thats fine and ok, but this "lets go in a different direction" talk is funny. Is there another elite scorer and impact player waiting to come here? I dont see one... sorry if I missed something.
The Knicks are better with Melo, whether he makes $17mm or $22mm.
If people want Melo to be like Duncan with his contract, then MElo would sign for the super max and at 35 take a two year $20mm extension. THATS what Duncan did. When Duncan was Melo's age he was making super max $20mm plus, not the discount he gave the Spurs when he hit the wrong side of 35.
Its funny... NY Knicks were a team that could never get elite players. Now the fan base doesnt want to pay one. Reminds me of when Ewing was up for big contract and fans were calling into the FAN killing him for the same reasons. Ewing was Jordan or Hakeem. Melo isnt Lebron or Durant. He's still good though and easy to put parts around.
Biggest complaint the last 3 years hasnt been Melo. Its been the moves around him (Bargs, Lin, Felton, Tyson, etc) that have not worked. Lets see Phil build a team. An elite scorer is a useful pawn to have.
Mavs, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets... all will be offering Melo the max. Im fine with paying our best player market value. If the market is high sucks for us. Thems the breaks.
why do you find it laughable?
for the second bold part -- no one has been able to put parts around him easily except for 1 season out of 12 (billups/den season, last year was not one to me) -- easily i take to mean building a contender. perhaps it isnt so easy to do? if he is maxed out and they do continue a trend of poor choices, wouldnt/couldnt the first bold part come back to strike the team again? lots can happen over the seasons that could make it work out... seems like its just not wise to max this guy out though. i do not feel its easy to build around him, and it would be fair to note it is based on what has happened not what might happen (maybe jackson is good at his new job).
if he goes, and they stink again... shocker. they have been awful most of this century so im used to it now...
lowered expectations...If I could swap Melo with another star/elite player I would not have an issue. Im not half the fan of MElo folks would assume I am. I am a fan of having elite talent and an impact player.
What does it tell you that ALL the teams with cap space or potential cap space trying to build a super team to compete for a title are throwing themselves at Melo?
What I find laughable is the fear of a 35 year old MElo making $20mm a year somehow justifies letting him walk for nothing and pretending that we are better off. Maybe we can start the Durant to NY chatter like we did with Lebron 4 years ago.
One clear trend I have noticed, elite players do not what to go to startups. NY is not a fun place. The media is relentless and nasty. No star is coming here to rescue NY. Melo has taken some good lumps here in NYC and continues to be a good soldier. He can handle it.
My thought process is simple: Im willing to pay market value for my talent. When 4-5 teams are offering your best player the max guess what his market is? The max. I didnt make up the market. The Bulls (12am tomorrow), the Mavs, the Rockets and the Lakers will make the market. If it hurts the Knicks 5 years from now thems the breaks. Show the situation where a team let high caliber talent walk for nothing and that move was the right thing to do.
i dont think there is any examples of folks walking for nothing and where it works great for the old team, though i cant think of too many times has that really happened.
for the rest, i dont know what jacksons plan is. i suspect he would like more $ to work with and the max wont help him do some of what he wants. no idea if thats a reality or not. if he stays at max, then maybe jackson planned for that and we shall see what he has next.
You just have to realistic. We arent paying Phil and Fish all this cash to let the elite talent walk and get the most from THrj and Cleanthoy Early. It just doesnt make sense. We need elite talent.