newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Speaking of which, that kind of destroys the notion that Phil didn't want him back. Never understood why people thought that in the first place...
CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Because they care more about Melo than they do the Knicks.
BS!!! I root for Melo only because he wears the Blue and Orange. Was a Knick fan long before he was a Knick and will be long after. I dont root against my fav team because of one player like some posters do around here....
+1. Not a big Melo fan before he came to NY. Watching his play won me over. Trying to provide some balance and truth with his harsh critics on here has made me even more of a fan.
Exactly...Over the years there have been Knick players that I liked far more than I do Melo, and not one time did I jump ship when 'said' player was traded. I was near tears as a youngster when the Knicks didn't re-up on King, but I didn't follow him to the Bullets, I remained a Knick fan. Rod Strickland is another one of my all time Knick favorite players, but I didn't follow him to Poartland. This idea that anyone here care's more about Melo than we do abut the Knicks is a tired and ridiculous argument.
that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.
five years.
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Um...I know that. I dont have a problem with it i just would have preferred a bit less. I mean its not that big of deal to me
dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Um...I know that. I dont have a problem with it i just would have preferred a bit less. I mean its not that big of deal to me
Didn't Uptown say that initially and you responded to it?
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Um...I know that. I dont have a problem with it i just would have preferred a bit less. I mean its not that big of deal to me
Didn't Uptown say that initially and you responded to it?
I said the same thing. I would have preferred a bit less but im not mad he is back
Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.
no pressure.
sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.
Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
Phil has had "anti-system" guys before and succeeded with them. People just forget that Jordan and Kobe weren't team guys at 1st. Melo will be just fine. The system is more for the rest of the team than it is for the teams star.
dk7th wrote:Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.
no pressure.
sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.
If its not working out and turns south then Melo will wave that no trade clause quick for a contender.
newyorknewyork wrote:dk7th wrote:Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.
no pressure.
sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.
If its not working out and turns south then Melo will wave that no trade clause quick for a contender.
if he starts breaking down there's no solution for that. those shoulders....
Holding out some hope that he not only took less than the full $129mm max BUT THEN ALSO agreed to the 7.5% decrease in yr 2. That would work out to more than $3.3mm...Pipe dream probably but we'll see...Not holding my breath.
Not that crazy about this whole situation, to be quite honest with you. Just disappointed that he took so long to make up his mind. Come on -- this dude knew he had NY and a max deal in his hip pocket for probably the better part of 2 weeks now -- he was holding out for any of these other teams to step up to the plate with any kind of a S&T deal so he could get the NY max dollars somewhere else. Or, he got together with his boy LeBron, to see if they could team up somewhere together...And when none of that came to pass, then it became, "well, ok, gotta go back to NY now.." That's how I feel man, and I know I'm not alone. Part of me recognizes that he's a great scorer and we're probably better off with him (although at the max price, I'd equally argue we should've just let him go) but a good part of me wouldn't have cared less if Phil got fed up and yanked his offer off the table days ago. F that man -- we're nobody's 2nd choice. Would've been nice to know we were his 1st choice but that's obviously not the case, no matter what he says now. Come on buddy, save it, we know better...I agree with others on this thread -- dude's a great scorer but a flawed overall player that is what he is. This guy's no leader and he's not getting any better as a player. All we can hope for is more of the same: 25+ ppg (hopefully at a good shooting %), 7+ rpg (no guarantee here btw), and hope to dear Jesus that his shoulders hold out. Defense, leadership, getting others involved, etc. -- that'll all have to come from other players.
I'm tellin' ya man -- a good part of me would've been OK with letting this dude go, signing Jerryd Bayless and Devin Ebanks to sensible deals, and giving them both 35 mins a night and as many shots as they wanted. Both those guys together, with that kind of freedom, along with some of our other scorers could've picked up the slack. Then we just continue to build from there with not just cap flexibility but SUPREME CAP FLEXIBILITY come next year and beyond...I know this comment doesn't completely do Melo justice but a good part of me really believes that all we need to do is come up with about 25-27 ppg somewhere else and this guy could've been replaced a hell of a lot cheaper. Hey man -- he's back so we'll see how much he can improve. Not holding my breath though..
I mean I should be so happy that he's back, right? Why don't I feel like that?
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Um...I know that. I dont have a problem with it i just would have preferred a bit less. I mean its not that big of deal to me
You may end up being 100% correct, its just the fanboy optimist in me that looks at how a situation could work.
nixluva wrote:Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
Phil has had "anti-system" guys before and succeeded with them. People just forget that Jordan and Kobe weren't team guys at 1st. Melo will be just fine. The system is more for the rest of the team than it is for the teams star.
Nix, I agree with you...I know its hard to gauge the tone of a convo behind the computer screen...I do not know the exact quote but I remember PJax saying something to the effect of 'in the triangle offense, a star player will find his shots, the triangle is more designed for the other guys so they know what to do nd where to go...' In other words, guys like Kobe, Jordan, Melo will break the system at times when they see an opportunity to score. But with the Triangle, the other guys wont be standing around watching....
Finestrg wrote:Holding out some hope that he not only took less than the full $129mm max BUT THEN ALSO agreed to the 7.5% decrease in yr 2. That would work out to more than $3.3mm...Pipe dream probably but we'll see...Not holding my breath.Not that crazy about this whole situation, to be quite honest with you. Just disappointed that he took so long to make up his mind. Come on -- this dude knew he had NY and a max deal in his hip pocket for probably the better part of 2 weeks now -- he was holding out for any of these other teams to step up to the plate with any kind of a S&T deal so he could get the NY max dollars somewhere else. Or, he got together with his boy LeBron, to see if they could team up somewhere together...And when none of that came to pass, then it became, "well, ok, gotta go back to NY now.." That's how I feel man, and I know I'm not alone. Part of me recognizes that he's a great scorer and we're probably better off with him (although at the max price, I'd equally argue we should've just let him go) but a good part of me wouldn't have cared less if Phil got fed up and yanked his offer off the table days ago. F that man -- we're nobody's 2nd choice. Would've been nice to know we we're his 1st choice but that's obviously not the case, no matter what he says. Come on buddy, save it, we know better...I agree with others on this thread -- dude's a great scorer but a flawed overall player that is what he is. This guy's no leader and he's not getting any better as a player. All we can hope for is more of the same: 25+ ppg (hopefully at a good shooting %), 7+ rpg (no guarantee here btw), and hope to dear Jesus that his shoulders hold out. Defense, leadership, getting others involved, etc. -- that'll all have to come from other players.
I'm tellin' ya man -- a good part of me would've been OK with letting this dude go, signing Jerryd Bayless and Devin Ebanks to sensible deals, and giving them both 35 mins a night and as many shots as they wanted. Both those guys together, with that kind of freedom, along with some of our other scorers could've picked up the slack. Then we just continue to build from there with not just cap flexibility but SUPREME CAP FLEXIBILITY come next year and beyond...I know this comment doesn't completely do Melo justice but a good part of me really believes that all we need to do is come up with about 25-27 ppg somewhere else and this guy could've been replaced a hell of a lot cheaper. Hey man -- he's back so we'll see how much he can improve. Not holding my breath though..
I mean I should be so happy that he's back. Why don't I feel like that?
I think you make great/fair points. I do ahve similar feelings. I mean what makes me more happy is Tim Hardaway Jr and Cleanathony Early looking really good. I guess its weird i feel more excited about them but i have always been a big supporter of bringin in talented youth since the knciks dont do it very often
dk7th wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:dk7th wrote:Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.
no pressure.
sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.
If its not working out and turns south then Melo will wave that no trade clause quick for a contender.
if he starts breaking down there's no solution for that. those shoulders....
The no trade clause wouldn't mean anything in that circumstance anyway. Have to keep his mins down and give young guys more mins. Its nessesary for there development toward building a deeper team as well as keeping Melo & others health in check.
newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Uptown wrote:Here's my problem with everyone complaining about Melo taking a pay cut. PJax is the ultimate champion, the Zen Master, the BB genius, the President of BB Opps, the one who delves out the contracts. Obviously, PJax knows what it takes to be a champion in this league, so why would the Zen Master put a max contract on the table for Melo to sign? Either he's not the genius that everyone thinks he is, or he is a genius and knows a one max contract will not prevent him from still putting together a team that can eventually compete with a 'chip.
But why do you get upset at us for wanting him to take less? We simply care about the team and dont wnat to ahve teh salary cap restrictions we have had for 15 years.
We aren't going to add 2 other superstars to the team even if Melo took less, that's just not realistic. With Calderon, Smith, Max Melo on the books we would still have cap space to go after guys like Gasol and Milsap. And just like every team that built a contender we have to draft well grooming guys from the draft. Getting production when they are on rookie deals as well as the ability to resign them even when we are over the cap.
Never said i wnated to go after 2 more max players. i dotn acre about max players i just want to have a deep team who can contend for multiple years
I am pretty sure that is what PJax wants and he is the one that offered the contract and is getting 12 mil a year.
Um...I know that. I dont have a problem with it i just would have preferred a bit less. I mean its not that big of deal to me
You may end up being 100% correct, its just the fanboy optimist in me that looks at how a situation could work.
See i respect your response. I think its great you are optimistic and i am as well. I was just simply hoping he took a bit less because it would be betetr for him and the team
dk7th wrote:Uptown wrote:dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.five years.
Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?
that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.
no pressure.
sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.
We sold are souls to starphuch again are you that surprised its the same thing different decade
