Knicks · SAS- Melo back for the Max (page 8)

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.

five years.

Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?

that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.

no pressure.

sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.

We sold are souls to starphuch again are you that surprised its the same thing different decade

Finestrg wrote:Holding out some hope that he not only took less than the full $129mm max BUT THEN ALSO agreed to the 7.5% decrease in yr 2. That would work out to more than $3.3mm...Pipe dream probably but we'll see...Not holding my breath.

Not that crazy about this whole situation, to be quite honest with you. Just disappointed that he took so long to make up his mind. Come on -- this dude knew he had NY and a max deal in his hip pocket for probably the better part of 2 weeks now -- he was holding out for any of these other teams to step up to the plate with any kind of a S&T deal so he could get the NY max dollars somewhere else. Or, he got together with his boy LeBron, to see if they could team up somewhere together...And when none of that came to pass, then it became, "well, ok, gotta go back to NY now.." That's how I feel man, and I know I'm not alone. Part of me recognizes that he's a great scorer and we're probably better off with him (although at the max price, I'd equally argue we should've just let him go) but a good part of me wouldn't have cared less if Phil got fed up and yanked his offer off the table days ago. F that man -- we're nobody's 2nd choice. Would've been nice to know we were his 1st choice but that's obviously not the case, no matter what he says now. Come on buddy, save it, we know better...I agree with others on this thread -- dude's a great scorer but a flawed overall player that is what he is. This guy's no leader and he's not getting any better as a player. All we can hope for is more of the same: 25+ ppg (hopefully at a good shooting %), 7+ rpg (no guarantee here btw), and hope to dear Jesus that his shoulders hold out. Defense, leadership, getting others involved, etc. -- that'll all have to come from other players.

I'm tellin' ya man -- a good part of me would've been OK with letting this dude go, signing Jerryd Bayless and Devin Ebanks to sensible deals, and giving them both 35 mins a night and as many shots as they wanted. Both those guys together, with that kind of freedom, along with some of our other scorers could've picked up the slack. Then we just continue to build from there with not just cap flexibility but SUPREME CAP FLEXIBILITY come next year and beyond...I know this comment doesn't completely do Melo justice but a good part of me really believes that all we need to do is come up with about 25-27 ppg somewhere else and this guy could've been replaced a hell of a lot cheaper. Hey man -- he's back so we'll see how much he can improve. Not holding my breath though..

I mean I should be so happy that he's back. Why don't I feel like that?

Letting Melo walk and signing Ebanks and Bayless would have us competing with the Magic and Bucks with no star player in tow to attract another star player next year. M Gasol ain't coming to play with Bayless...Also, we don't have our pick in 2016. It would have been bad business to let Melo walk for nothing.

One thing no one is mentioning is the idea that the cap will be increasing very soon which will make his contract not look as bad as it may look to some right now....

Jmpasq wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.

five years.

Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?

that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.

no pressure.

sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.

We sold are souls to starphuch again are you that surprised its the same thing different decade

Whats the alternative in your opinion?

Uptown wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Holding out some hope that he not only took less than the full $129mm max BUT THEN ALSO agreed to the 7.5% decrease in yr 2. That would work out to more than $3.3mm...Pipe dream probably but we'll see...Not holding my breath.

Not that crazy about this whole situation, to be quite honest with you. Just disappointed that he took so long to make up his mind. Come on -- this dude knew he had NY and a max deal in his hip pocket for probably the better part of 2 weeks now -- he was holding out for any of these other teams to step up to the plate with any kind of a S&T deal so he could get the NY max dollars somewhere else. Or, he got together with his boy LeBron, to see if they could team up somewhere together...And when none of that came to pass, then it became, "well, ok, gotta go back to NY now.." That's how I feel man, and I know I'm not alone. Part of me recognizes that he's a great scorer and we're probably better off with him (although at the max price, I'd equally argue we should've just let him go) but a good part of me wouldn't have cared less if Phil got fed up and yanked his offer off the table days ago. F that man -- we're nobody's 2nd choice. Would've been nice to know we were his 1st choice but that's obviously not the case, no matter what he says now. Come on buddy, save it, we know better...I agree with others on this thread -- dude's a great scorer but a flawed overall player that is what he is. This guy's no leader and he's not getting any better as a player. All we can hope for is more of the same: 25+ ppg (hopefully at a good shooting %), 7+ rpg (no guarantee here btw), and hope to dear Jesus that his shoulders hold out. Defense, leadership, getting others involved, etc. -- that'll all have to come from other players.

I'm tellin' ya man -- a good part of me would've been OK with letting this dude go, signing Jerryd Bayless and Devin Ebanks to sensible deals, and giving them both 35 mins a night and as many shots as they wanted. Both those guys together, with that kind of freedom, along with some of our other scorers could've picked up the slack. Then we just continue to build from there with not just cap flexibility but SUPREME CAP FLEXIBILITY come next year and beyond...I know this comment doesn't completely do Melo justice but a good part of me really believes that all we need to do is come up with about 25-27 ppg somewhere else and this guy could've been replaced a hell of a lot cheaper. Hey man -- he's back so we'll see how much he can improve. Not holding my breath though..

I mean I should be so happy that he's back. Why don't I feel like that?

Letting Melo walk and signing Ebanks and Bayless would have us competing with the Magic and Bucks with no star player in tow to attract another star player next year. M Gasol ain't coming to play with Bayless...Also, we don't have our pick in 2016. It would have been bad business to let Melo walk for nothing.

One thing no one is mentioning is the idea that the cap will be increasing very soon which will make his contract not look as bad as it may look to some right now....

Now that Melo is back he has some work to do. We all know he can score but now its time to buckle down on defense and also trust hsi teammates more. i know he has the ability to be a willing/good passer and we have seen flashes of his defense. Now its time for him to get to teh next level

And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission? Don't care for it either way..

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission.

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

well if god forbid he breaks down he wont have a trade option anyway because liek we saw wth amare nobody will take that contract

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission.

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

well if god forbid he breaks down he wont have a trade option anyway because liek we saw wth amare nobody will take that contract

True (and that scares me too) but what if he doesn't break down but we experience more of last year where the chemistry's bad, we're not winning, etc., and we want to turn the page at some point? What, we won't be able to now? Come on...I wanna know the details..

Finestrg wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission.

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

well if god forbid he breaks down he wont have a trade option anyway because liek we saw wth amare nobody will take that contract

What if he doesn't break down but we experience more of last year where the chemistry's bad, we're not winning, etc., and we want to turn the page at some point? What, we won't be able to now? Come on...I wanna know the details..

Obviously i hope that doesnt happen. Im just wondering if the Bulls refused to gives us a nice package and phil felt he had no alternative?

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission? Don't care for it either way..

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

Did we really need a no-trade-clause with Amare's degenerative knees? Allan Houston's 100 million dollar contract was a no-trade-clause in it self. No one but us was taking that contract

Uptown wrote:

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission? Don't care for it either way..

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

Did we really need a no-trade-clause with Amare's degenerative knees? Allan Houston's 100 million dollar contract was a no-trade-clause in it self. No one but us was taking that contract

Doesnt make it any more comforting

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission? Don't care for it either way..

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

Did we really need a no-trade-clause with Amare's degenerative knees? Allan Houston's 100 million dollar contract was a no-trade-clause in it self. No one but us was taking that contract

Doesnt make it any more comforting

I hear you.....

Jmpasq wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.

five years.

Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?

that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.

no pressure.

sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.

We sold are souls to starphuch again are you that surprised its the same thing different decade

what's worse is that melo in the end, and predictably, he simply paid lip service to two things:

1) prioritizing winning
2) taking a pay-cut to assemble a better team in new york

he's a hypocrite and a liar-- that is now undeniable and on the record-- but he's the knicks' hypocrite and liar so i guess we have to look past that and forget what he is in order to be "true" or "real" or "diehard" knick fans.

Finestrg wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Finestrg wrote:And yeah, the no trade clause bothers me too somewhat. I mean WTF, did we give Allan Houston or Amar'e no trade clauses?? Did Patrick Ewing ever have one?? Did LeBron, Wade or Bosh get no trade clauses when they all teamed up together in Miami? Interested to see what the clause actually says -- will it only specify certain teams or will it spell out no trades period, w/o Melo's permission.

There goes the idea that we should just sign him and then if it doesn't work out by the deadline, a year from now, 2 years from now, whatever...we can just trade him them. may not be able to do that now.

well if god forbid he breaks down he wont have a trade option anyway because liek we saw wth amare nobody will take that contract

True (and that scares me too) but what if he doesn't break down but we experience more of last year where the chemistry's bad, we're not winning, etc., and we want to turn the page at some point? What, we won't be able to now? Come on...I wanna know the details..

i can see a "dinglebury towel drape" in melo's future if that happens.

dk7th wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:that's an awful lot of money to bet on an anti-system guy learning system basketball.

five years.

Yet, the ultimate system guy, PJax, still gave him the money. So what does that tell you?

that jackson believes that he and fisher can get melo to conform his game to the triangle offense and make melo a better player, and that melo will not start breaking down.

no pressure.

sure hope the contract doesn't contain a no-trade clause. five years is a long time to be stuck.

We sold are souls to starphuch again are you that surprised its the same thing different decade

what's worse is that melo in the end, and predictably, he simply paid lip service to two things:

1) prioritizing winning
2) taking a pay-cut to assemble a better team in new york

he's a hypocrite and a liar-- that is now undeniable and on the record-- but he's the knicks' hypocrite and liar so i guess we have to look past that and forget what he is in order to be "true" or "real" or "diehard" knick fans.

You do make some fair points. If he does feel he can win in New York i am happy to have him. HOWEVER he said multiple times he would definetly take a paycut. Now 120-129 million isnt a paycut...so im hoping he remembers what he said multiple times

Uptown wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Holding out some hope that he not only took less than the full $129mm max BUT THEN ALSO agreed to the 7.5% decrease in yr 2. That would work out to more than $3.3mm...Pipe dream probably but we'll see...Not holding my breath.

Not that crazy about this whole situation, to be quite honest with you. Just disappointed that he took so long to make up his mind. Come on -- this dude knew he had NY and a max deal in his hip pocket for probably the better part of 2 weeks now -- he was holding out for any of these other teams to step up to the plate with any kind of a S&T deal so he could get the NY max dollars somewhere else. Or, he got together with his boy LeBron, to see if they could team up somewhere together...And when none of that came to pass, then it became, "well, ok, gotta go back to NY now.." That's how I feel man, and I know I'm not alone. Part of me recognizes that he's a great scorer and we're probably better off with him (although at the max price, I'd equally argue we should've just let him go) but a good part of me wouldn't have cared less if Phil got fed up and yanked his offer off the table days ago. F that man -- we're nobody's 2nd choice. Would've been nice to know we were his 1st choice but that's obviously not the case, no matter what he says now. Come on buddy, save it, we know better...I agree with others on this thread -- dude's a great scorer but a flawed overall player that is what he is. This guy's no leader and he's not getting any better as a player. All we can hope for is more of the same: 25+ ppg (hopefully at a good shooting %), 7+ rpg (no guarantee here btw), and hope to dear Jesus that his shoulders hold out. Defense, leadership, getting others involved, etc. -- that'll all have to come from other players.

I'm tellin' ya man -- a good part of me would've been OK with letting this dude go, signing Jerryd Bayless and Devin Ebanks to sensible deals, and giving them both 35 mins a night and as many shots as they wanted. Both those guys together, with that kind of freedom, along with some of our other scorers could've picked up the slack. Then we just continue to build from there with not just cap flexibility but SUPREME CAP FLEXIBILITY come next year and beyond...I know this comment doesn't completely do Melo justice but a good part of me really believes that all we need to do is come up with about 25-27 ppg somewhere else and this guy could've been replaced a hell of a lot cheaper. Hey man -- he's back so we'll see how much he can improve. Not holding my breath though..

I mean I should be so happy that he's back. Why don't I feel like that?

Letting Melo walk and signing Ebanks and Bayless would have us competing with the Magic and Bucks with no star player in tow to attract another star player next year. M Gasol ain't coming to play with Bayless...Also, we don't have our pick in 2016. It would have been bad business to let Melo walk for nothing.

One thing no one is mentioning is the idea that the cap will be increasing very soon which will make his contract not look as bad as it may look to some right now....

Disagree man. If Melo walked, I would've built it cheap for the time being and remained patient with my cap money...I know it's slightly more complicated that what I'm saying but Ebanks can score the ball. Bayless, if finally put in the right scenario, can score the ball. And I know both would come cheap, esp Ebanks (who we could slide right into Melo's position so there's an automatic fit there). Millions less than what it took to bring this guy back in fact. Together, if both were given 30-35 mins a night here and the green light, they could put up 25+ pts per between them, fairly easily I think. Again, I know there's more to it than that, but come on man -- what is Melo? He's a scorer. If you're gonna replace him, what do you really need to replace? Points. That's really it. What else? What are the other intangibles this guy provides? Then remind yourself that we turned out to be sloppy seconds for him, he's on the other side of 30 with 2 questionable shoulders and a guy that has never provided leadership, doesn't provide standout defense, doesn't get others involved, despite scoring big last year--we sucked, etc...

If Bosh gets 118 million, Melo can't take less than that. It's that simple. Look for 120-124 million for Melo's contract.

nychamp wrote:If Bosh gets 118 million, Melo can't take less than that. It's that simple. Look for 120-124 million for Melo's contract.

I think more people are more concerned with teh Knicks salary cap rather than Melo financial well being as they should

nychamp wrote:If Bosh gets 118 million, Melo can't take less than that. It's that simple. Look for 120-124 million for Melo's contract.

End of the day, you're right. That became the instant measuring stick.

I was hoping Melo would come at a nice discount, but now I want him to make at least $118,000,000.01.

ToddTT wrote:I was hoping Melo would come at a discount, but now I want him to make at least $122,000,000.01.

why do you get a cut