Knicks · goals for the season (page 1)

1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

nice post.

+1
Really good post.
Only part I take issue with (maybe) is Shump. Don't know if his athleticism is ever going to be what it was when he came into the league, or if it was still hindered by his recovery last year and he'll make a leap this season.
If he gets back to where he was, I wanna keep him. Only guy on our team who can change a game with his defense -- that's a very valuable skill that's too rare to let go of imo.

bernard wrote:+1
Really good post.
Only part I take issue with (maybe) is Shump. Don't know if his athleticism is ever going to be what it was when he came into the league, or if it was still hindered by his recovery last year and he'll make a leap this season.
If he gets back to where he was, I wanna keep him. Only guy on our team who can change a game with his defense -- that's a very valuable skill that's too rare to let go of imo.

the IQ question is always there for him though. if Fisher builds his understanding of the game up like PJax did with this players, this would be one player to keep for a few years at least.

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

I like,

I am hoping Jr can really break out under the triangle as he has a relatively cheap contract for his talent. Best case scenarios he either outproduces his contract providing good production for the bucks allowing us to not have to spend for a 3rd option, or he exercises his PO freeing up more cap space.

Making playoffs comes down to what we get out of Amare & Andrea. Unless, Calderon, Smith, & Shump or Hardaway Jr have amazing yrs.

I would like to target Milsap and Gasol for 2015.

Good stuff Fish. Hopefully Early will help Melo keep his minutes down if he plays the 3. I hope Melo does go back to SF, less wear and tear at that position I imagine.

I would add Fisher proving that he can coach, showing potential FAs that the team is in good hands.

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

I like,

I am hoping Jr can really break out under the triangle as he has a relatively cheap contract for his talent. Best case scenarios he either outproduces his contract providing good production for the bucks allowing us to not have to spend for a 3rd option, or he exercises his PO freeing up more cap space.

Making playoffs comes down to what we get out of Amare & Andrea. Unless, Calderon, Smith, & Shump or Hardaway Jr have amazing yrs.

I would like to target Milsap and Gasol for 2015.

Milsap would be my top priority, especially since he does not require a maxi

bernard wrote:+1
Really good post.
Only part I take issue with (maybe) is Shump. Don't know if his athleticism is ever going to be what it was when he came into the league, or if it was still hindered by his recovery last year and he'll make a leap this season.
If he gets back to where he was, I wanna keep him. Only guy on our team who can change a game with his defense -- that's a very valuable skill that's too rare to let go of imo.

when you see him get 6 steals and take over a game with that athleticism I can 100% see where your coming from. My reasoning was risk/reward. Also he's in a contract year and if we dont trade him we are looking at the David Lee conundrum. We have a good player due to get paid, but want to use that money for higher impact guys. Thats why my thought was to pump and dump and get something back. I certainly hear you though... and we have seen him lock down all 3 wing spots. We have also seen him go a week without scoring a point. Tough call for Phil to make.

I posted this in Briggs thread about instability - maybe we should buyout Bargs & maybe Amare's deal rather than have them clog up the roster and be a possible distraction.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

nice post.

One and done is not fine by me in any shape or form, but i think the key to a successful season starts with identifying roles, no trade talks every other week, and unselfish play.

The trade talks will be flooding the air waves until the trade deadline, that in it's self will be a problem. We already saw how shumps game suffered big time, and i don't think he will be alone in this department.

You just can't play with a clear head if your head is not in the game. When people talk about shump having a low IQ, it wouldn't be as low if he didn't have bull sht to deal with like woodson and who should start, trade rumours, and a heavy isolation system.

I'm just not sure what kind of player you get when there playing on an a expiring contract and they know there not part of the franchise's future.

knicks1248 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

nice post.

One and done is not fine by me in any shape or form, but i think the key to a successful season starts with identifying roles, no trade talks every other week, and unselfish play.

The trade talks will be flooding the air waves until the trade deadline, that in it's self will be a problem. We already saw how shumps game suffered big time, and i don't think he will be alone in this department.

You just can't play with a clear head if your head is not in the game. When people talk about shump having a low IQ, it wouldn't be as low if he didn't have bull sht to deal with like woodson and who should start, trade rumours, and a heavy isolation system.

I'm just not sure what kind of player you get when there playing on an a expiring contract and they know there not part of the franchise's future.

When was Shump ever a high IQ player? When has he ever been efficient? Never ... not even in college.

Good post. It's comforting to have management/coaching in place that is completely aligned for once. Never have been this excited going into a season as it seems like we finally have a great basketball mind autonomously running the show (hands off Dolan).

Agree with fish about wanting to see this team establish an identity and get back into the playoffs. From there, like our chances of building upon that with one of the best scorers in the game already in the fold. Want to also see Fish establish himself as a good young coach that can keep everyone motivated and focused a majority of the time. This team often focuses in spurts so will be interesting to see if Fish can hold their attention and keep them committed to the triangle.

franco12 wrote:I posted this in Briggs thread about instability - maybe we should buyout Bargs & maybe Amare's deal rather than have them clog up the roster and be a possible distraction.

Distractions? Amare is not a distraction neither is Bargs. Distractions are players like Chandler, Felton, JR Smith, Shump and Melo. Those are distractions. Those were the distractions last year. Chandler with his big mouth, Felton with his BS play and gun rap, Jr with his stupid antics and poor start, Shump with his pouting, Melo with his I want to test free agency only thing I could say about Melo is he performed at a high level but he set the season in motion with his comments.

Amare's only concern is his injuries, but I never question his effort. This guy is a battler and his presence will only help the young players. Bargs is what he is. People see him as a number 1 pick but in a good year of draft he would have been mid round pick at best. He gave effort he played center rather well for the Knicks. This guy is going to benefit from the triangle he seems to me to be a systems player. I would not consider Amare or Bargs as distractions they are far from that.

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

nice post.

One and done is not fine by me in any shape or form, but i think the key to a successful season starts with identifying roles, no trade talks every other week, and unselfish play.

The trade talks will be flooding the air waves until the trade deadline, that in it's self will be a problem. We already saw how shumps game suffered big time, and i don't think he will be alone in this department.

You just can't play with a clear head if your head is not in the game. When people talk about shump having a low IQ, it wouldn't be as low if he didn't have bull sht to deal with like woodson and who should start, trade rumours, and a heavy isolation system.

I'm just not sure what kind of player you get when there playing on an a expiring contract and they know there not part of the franchise's future.

When was Shump ever a high IQ player? When has he ever been efficient? Never ... not even in college.

I agree, but adding exta drama around him surely doesn't benefit him

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

I tend to agree with everything you posted. This year is about seeing if THjr, Cole, Larkin, and Early can be rotation players for us long-term and then getting everyone used to playing the system. I still think this team should make the playoffs in the weak East, but 2015 is the year that the Knicks should really take off.

That's a good plan. In my opinion this isn't a 54 win team but its also not a 37 win team. Its a reasonable expectation for them to be somewhere in between- i.e. 45 wins. But if everything falls into place we know that they are capable of more.

I think you are right- Shump is the piece to move. Young assets are valuable for a few reasons, but you need to understand what makes more sense- making them a rotation player or making them a trade chip. Shumpert has proven on both the college level and pro level to be an inconsistent player. He has a great looking shot, but he can go months at a time where it doesn't fall, and then goes a month where he looks like a future super star. He's like just gonna be inconsistent his whole career. With Hardaway, Thanassis, Early etc. playing the same sort of position, and the fact that he'd be owed 3.5mm in 2015, it doesn't make sense to keep him unless you really think he is going to turn the corner.

WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

This is what Woody would say. The goal is to win a championship.

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

I tend to agree but every season has its own set of challenges. I to think the Knicks *can* win the division, but that doesnt mean they will or they should.

I agree 100% with Vmart's comments on Amare, and if he can give anything he will. He finished the season very strong last year. 26 games post all star he put up 15/6 and shot 57%. If we could get close to that kind of EF% from him it would be a huge help. Im not holding out much hope for Bargs.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

I tend to agree but every season has its own set of challenges. I to think the Knicks *can* win the division, but that doesnt mean they will or they should.

I agree 100% with Vmart's comments on Amare, and if he can give anything he will. He finished the season very strong last year. 26 games post all star he put up 15/6 and shot 57%. If we could get close to that kind of EF% from him it would be a huge help. Im not holding out much hope for Bargs.

Amare gives up far more than he gets. Just looking at his offensive stats does not tell the story.

So unfortunately, I think that the knicks will be a better team with him occupying the IR.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

I tend to agree but every season has its own set of challenges. I to think the Knicks *can* win the division, but that doesnt mean they will or they should.

I agree 100% with Vmart's comments on Amare, and if he can give anything he will. He finished the season very strong last year. 26 games post all star he put up 15/6 and shot 57%. If we could get close to that kind of EF% from him it would be a huge help. Im not holding out much hope for Bargs.

Amare gives up far more than he gets. Just looking at his offensive stats does not tell the story.

So unfortunately, I think that the knicks will be a better team with him occupying the IR.

I understand you dont like him, but thats just not accurate. Knicks need some high % scorers. Amare brings that. Especially off the bench.