nixluva wrote:There really is no point to arguing over how much money Melo should've given up. People forget about Taxes and Manager fees. You really can't just look at the totals and ignore what his actual Net would be after all that. I could care less what he makes. I'm glad Melo is still here and that we have a chance to win with better leadership going forward.
Nixluva you are one of my favorite posters on here because of your bb knowledge, but I think we both know this is nonsense.
Its fine to stop talking about his salary, but let's not pretend he threw himself on the sword with this deal.
dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:tkf wrote:mreinman wrote:tkf wrote:I read this earlier.. he was playing devils advocate a bit but in the end he is right. carmelo blew it twice.. when he forced his way to NY and not going to the bulls roster..Although he correctly pointed out carmelo needs a 2011 mavs type of team, dirk was just a better player than carmelo and even that team came together under all the right circumstances...
If his only hope is getting that type of team, then he is chasing a unicorn... going with the bulls made so much sense.. but carmelo is looking for money.. not rings it seems..
So he should have gone to the Bulls for 73 million instead of resigning where he lives at 122?
C'mon, get real. I am sure you may have done this since for you its probably not about "the money" but the rest of us are taking the 122.
Would have been nice if he gave us a bigger discount though.
had I already made around 150 mil, I would have taken a lot less if I am all about winning and trust me.. I am all about winning...
but the rest of us are taking the 122.
and that is what separates the winners from "the rest"
Can you show me an example where a player left 50 million on the table?
I can't think of one but that is a great question. The responses should be interesting.
dirk took 16 million less the year over four years he won the finals and was finals mvp, if memory serves. and as the article had stated, dirk is a superior player to carmelo with far greater accomplishments.
ergo carmelo, being inferior and with a less-accomplished career, should have taken at least 30 million less over five years.
talk about pretzel logic
how so? I took the main premise or point of comparison in his article
1) dirk nowitzki, who the author acknowledged is the superior player to carmelo anthony, and you presumably agree with his assessment
then i took a historical event
2) dirk took 16 million less on a four year contract, the first year of which he won the finals mvp
then i put these two points together and concluded that if dirk can take 4 million off of each of the 4 years then melo as the inferior to dirk can take 6 million off of each of the five years.
ergo carmelo could have-- and should have-- taken 30 million less if he wanted to help build a winner here in new york.
at this point most of his most earnest admirers hoped that he would take closer to 20 million a year.
guess what 20 million times 5 equals?
the end
<crickets>
<crickets>
<crickets>
gunsnewing wrote:I think $110-115 is the number that would've appeased everyone. Again bosh got 118m but he ready has 2 rings. Melo is chasing his first. I would've taken more than $6mil discount over 5yrs to give Phil the option of adding another star or 2 really good players. Depending on what is out there. It's all about having options and flexibility. $14m less than max would've been perfect
yeah - that would have appeased me.
It's kind of funny, because this thread reads like fans. Do really think Carmelo cares if Bosh has a ring, when negotiates a contract??? Does anybody really thing that's how contracts get done, really???
If you think you are worth X, what does Dirk taking 5 years ago have anything to do with anything? Only makes sense if you are a fan looking in from the outside imo.
Anji wrote:It's kind of funny, because this thread reads like fans. Do really think Carmelo cares if Bosh has a ring, when negotiates a contract??? Does anybody really thing that's how contracts get done, really???If you think you are worth X, what does Dirk taking 5 years ago have anything to do with anything? Only makes sense if you are a fan looking in from the outside imo.
not all fans care about winning. they are happy to just watch a show. these fans deserve a player like carmelo, who reflects their values by the way he behaves both on and off the court.
Anji wrote:It's kind of funny, because this thread reads like fans. Do really think Carmelo cares if Bosh has a ring, when negotiates a contract??? Does anybody really thing that's how contracts get done, really???If you think you are worth X, what does Dirk taking 5 years ago have anything to do with anything? Only makes sense if you are a fan looking in from the outside imo.
Then why are people saying "well Bosh is making X million, so Carmelo should make 1.5X million" if Bosh's contract is unrelated to Carmelo's decision-making?
Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
dk7th wrote:dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:tkf wrote:mreinman wrote:tkf wrote:I read this earlier.. he was playing devils advocate a bit but in the end he is right. carmelo blew it twice.. when he forced his way to NY and not going to the bulls roster..Although he correctly pointed out carmelo needs a 2011 mavs type of team, dirk was just a better player than carmelo and even that team came together under all the right circumstances...
If his only hope is getting that type of team, then he is chasing a unicorn... going with the bulls made so much sense.. but carmelo is looking for money.. not rings it seems..
So he should have gone to the Bulls for 73 million instead of resigning where he lives at 122?
C'mon, get real. I am sure you may have done this since for you its probably not about "the money" but the rest of us are taking the 122.
Would have been nice if he gave us a bigger discount though.
had I already made around 150 mil, I would have taken a lot less if I am all about winning and trust me.. I am all about winning...
but the rest of us are taking the 122.
and that is what separates the winners from "the rest"
Can you show me an example where a player left 50 million on the table?
I can't think of one but that is a great question. The responses should be interesting.
dirk took 16 million less the year over four years he won the finals and was finals mvp, if memory serves. and as the article had stated, dirk is a superior player to carmelo with far greater accomplishments.
ergo carmelo, being inferior and with a less-accomplished career, should have taken at least 30 million less over five years.
talk about pretzel logic
how so? I took the main premise or point of comparison in his article
1) dirk nowitzki, who the author acknowledged is the superior player to carmelo anthony, and you presumably agree with his assessment
then i took a historical event
2) dirk took 16 million less on a four year contract, the first year of which he won the finals mvp
then i put these two points together and concluded that if dirk can take 4 million off of each of the 4 years then melo as the inferior to dirk can take 6 million off of each of the five years.
ergo carmelo could have-- and should have-- taken 30 million less if he wanted to help build a winner here in new york.
at this point most of his most earnest admirers hoped that he would take closer to 20 million a year.
guess what 20 million times 5 equals?
the end
<crickets>
<crickets>
<crickets>
There is nothing in the article that says Dirk took 16 mil less but lets assume that is accurate. With state and city income tax in ny taking 7 mil less Melo ends up netting the same or less than Dirk over 4 or 5 years. That is why Ariza is a rocket and not a wizard. Contracts were reportedly the same but the tax break in a non income tax state made the Rockets a much more lucrative place for him to play.
You also left out that while Simmons pointed out Dirk's greatness he said Melo and Dirk had similar playoff numbers but that Melo never had a team around him. I think it is important to remember that if Melo took less in year one of his deal it wouldn't matter because Amare and Bargs opted in. I don't have the information about Dirk's contract but if what you are presenting is accurate I think it makes a difference if a gm says to you, if you take less I can get this guy. Phil couldn't say that. What he could say was take less in year 2 when Amare and Bargs expire and I should be able to bring in another good player and Melo did that.
Dagger wrote:Anji wrote:It's kind of funny, because this thread reads like fans. Do really think Carmelo cares if Bosh has a ring, when negotiates a contract??? Does anybody really thing that's how contracts get done, really???If you think you are worth X, what does Dirk taking 5 years ago have anything to do with anything? Only makes sense if you are a fan looking in from the outside imo.
Then why are people saying "well Bosh is making X million, so Carmelo should make 1.5X million" if Bosh's contract is unrelated to Carmelo's decision-making?
Because those people believe Melo's agent would uses Boshes contract to set a market, he can give two shits about his rings. "My client is the best PF on the market, the second just signed for X"..... makes sense.
Arguing about rings is absolutely fandom talk. Why does he care if he things he is better and Phil agrees???
gunsnewing wrote:Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
Tell them what??? That doesn't even apply to there negotiations/situation.
dk7th wrote:Anji wrote:It's kind of funny, because this thread reads like fans. Do really think Carmelo cares if Bosh has a ring, when negotiates a contract??? Does anybody really thing that's how contracts get done, really???If you think you are worth X, what does Dirk taking 5 years ago have anything to do with anything? Only makes sense if you are a fan looking in from the outside imo.
not all fans care about winning. they are happy to just watch a show. these fans deserve a player like carmelo, who reflects their values by the way he behaves both on and off the court.
Phil must not value winning either...just wants to see the Melo show.
gunsnewing wrote:Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
They all took less, because they were all in cahoots with each other and knew for a fact they would ALL PLAY TOGETHER!!!!
If Melo took less, its no guarantee that a star player will come here next year. Lakers and Rockets both had massive space this year and both were left the altar....
Dagger wrote:nixluva wrote:There really is no point to arguing over how much money Melo should've given up. People forget about Taxes and Manager fees. You really can't just look at the totals and ignore what his actual Net would be after all that. I could care less what he makes. I'm glad Melo is still here and that we have a chance to win with better leadership going forward.
Nixluva you are one of my favorite posters on here because of your bb knowledge, but I think we both know this is nonsense.
Its fine to stop talking about his salary, but let's not pretend he threw himself on the sword with this deal.
Never said anything about throwing himself on the sword. Just saying that Melo isn't going to see $123 mil. He's in the highest tax bracket. I'm no tax specialist but I can imagine he takes a huge hit. People need to consider that when asking guys to just give up money. The money he's making isn't going to be a hindrance to this team adding a good player in the future. Most important is how well Phil does adding lower cost talent. That's always the key to a winning team.
Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
They all took less, because they were all in cahoots with each other and knew for a fact they would ALL PLAY TOGETHER!!!!
If Melo took less, its no guarantee that a star player will come here next year. Lakers and Rockets both had massive space this year and both were left the altar....
Lebron could've signed the max with Miami and they woukdve given it to him if money was the end all be all. He went to Cleveland. Melo values his money over everything. Nothing wrong with that. I will remain skeptical of his will to win
Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
They all took less, because they were all in cahoots with each other and knew for a fact they would ALL PLAY TOGETHER!!!!
If Melo took less, its no guarantee that a star player will come here next year. Lakers and Rockets both had massive space this year and both were left the altar....
Ebron could've signed the max with Miami and they soil hodge given it to him if money was the end all be all. He went to Cleveland. Melo values his money over everything. Nothing wrong with that. I will remain skeptical of his will to win
gotta be phone auto-correction
sidsanders wrote:Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Yea tell that to Lebron Wade and bosh who took a lot less and won twice
They all took less, because they were all in cahoots with each other and knew for a fact they would ALL PLAY TOGETHER!!!!
If Melo took less, its no guarantee that a star player will come here next year. Lakers and Rockets both had massive space this year and both were left the altar....
Ebron could've signed the max with Miami and they soil hodge given it to him if money was the end all be all. He went to Cleveland. Melo values his money over everything. Nothing wrong with that. I will remain skeptical of his will to win
gotta be phone auto-correction
farmelo pull of gotten a figging seem but he is a fareless
gunsnewing wrote:Fixed
Your initial premise was that Bosh/Wade/Lebron all took less and won 'chips which was from '10-14. My point is, the only reason Lebron would agree to take less is because he knew Bosh and wade was on board and vice versa. Lebron went back home and took as max contract, not in years, but in yearly numbers....
BTW, you mentioned will to win in your original post. How do you measure a persons will to win?
I think that Lebron, Wade and Bosh took 15 million less over 6 years but they all opted out.
I think Melo would take that hit if there was a super friends option.
I don't think that any sane minded person would think that is not the case.
