Knicks · Phil puts Jr on the block!! (page 2)

Knicksfan wrote:JR is actually a valuable asset on a reasonable contract, especially compared to the ones given to SGs, so if we trade him, it must be for a better player at another position and/or flexibility for next season capwise.

I dont see those rumored players to be improvements, especially with long contracts. Do you?

The main reason is to limit distractions.

Right and establish a better culture

You dont take a longer contract just to limit distractions and better the culture if that also hurts your chances in free agency next season, especially after getting Melo's "discount".

Let's put all our bad, overpaid players on the trade block!

Knicksfan wrote:JR is actually a valuable asset on a reasonable contract, especially compared to the ones given to SGs, so if we trade him, it must be for a better player at another position and/or flexibility for next season capwise.

I dont see those rumored players to be improvements, especially with long contracts. Do you?

yea.. its hard to get past JR's knuckleheadedness. I feel with Fisher and company we have pretty strong leadership. You have to think he can reel in his BS and put together some good seasons it would be under these guys. Im still chapped about how poorly he played in the playoffs after that 54 win season and of course starting last year suspended, hurt and utterly awful. He's a wild card, but he's got the 99 mph fast ball so he's tough to let walk 'just because'

I hear you

This could just be the simple fact that JR has some trade value to fill needs And the very nature of his game as a shot creator might not work in the system as catch and shoot players, and those with a stronger passing acumen. Thats not a knock on his game but a realization that he should play on a team that can use his strengths.

I for one would enjoy to see if he could adapt his game to the triangle.

Simple, Phil Jax teams are often depicted as "what do you expect when you have two of the games best", you know Kobe/shaq and Jordan/pip but they were very much about having a balanced roster with strong role players. The roster is far from complete form it being "clumsy" but it needs a second star and upgrades thru out. In time, the upgrades will need upgrading if we are to contend in three seasons out.

yeah, I said it, three seasons out. Im not expecting more than a low playoff seed in season 1.

If JR has value and Phil can make a deal, why not.

Knicksfan wrote:JR is actually a valuable asset on a reasonable contract, especially compared to the ones given to SGs, so if we trade him, it must be for a better player at another position and/or flexibility for next season capwise.

I dont see those rumored players to be improvements, especially with long contracts. Do you?

No. I'd rather sign Omri Caspi to a one year deal than bring in Ilyasova for three additional years. Smith is OK, but he's the kind of guy I'd want bring after we made our play for a max player.

What is this Source? I don't see the Knicks adding more salary beyond next year. Remember JR has a player option in 2015-2016 that would save us 6mm if he exercises it. I don't think we add any guaranteed salary that year.

JR has it physically. If Phil trades him it's because he thinks JR lacks the basketball IQ to play in the triangle

Bonn1997 wrote:Let's put all our bad, overpaid players on the trade block!

We actually don't have any of those.

JR has talent. We know that.

JR is crazy. We know that.

We have a glut of guards. We know that.

But we also know that one of the story lines of 2015 is having max money to offer. Heck, the Melo Contract Saga seems to be because of that. So my point is that JR isn't exactly a guy we need to trade so badly that we take a longer contract unless the player is worth it. And that list doesn't seem to include one that should.

Yes, JR is crazy and will probably not be part of the Knicks future. If moved, I just hope is for a significant improvement and not just to clean the culture because I, as a few others here, am intrigued about what possible influence can Phil and Fish have on JR. Woody did have a strong one in our 54-win season. And JR does have great talent.

Another point to this: does this project the confidence Phil and Fish have in Shumpert & Hardaway Jr. to be able to handle SG by themselves next season? That would be a great sign. THJr is showing good things in Summer League, but I still need to see more defense...

Knicksfan wrote:JR is actually a valuable asset on a reasonable contract, especially compared to the ones given to SGs, so if we trade him, it must be for a better player at another position and/or flexibility for next season capwise.

I dont see those rumored players to be improvements, especially with long contracts. Do you?

Exactly,not to mention JR is the best sg we have, he can rebound, pass, and is a decent defender, In other words, he does what THJ and Shump do all by himself, and when he's really on his game he can get to the hole.

Shump can't shoot and his confidence can easily be shattered, Tim can't pass, can't defend, can't rebound..and ppl talk about melo being one demmensional, but would praise a JR trade.

You can always trade jr next yr and take back more salary for a better player, especially if he has a solid season.

I hear this source like to make stuff up so again I don't know if this is real.

newyorknewyork wrote:I hear this source like to make stuff up so again I don't know if this is real.

It's weird because I'm pretty sure if JR knew he was on the block he would be showing up in the media more, but maybe Phil isn't shopping him....who knows. I just think you need a 1 year deal coming back if you move JR. Might as well move caldron too and go young imo.

Bonn1997 wrote:Let's put all our bad, overpaid players on the trade block!

We'd have no one left!

newyorknewyork wrote:I hear this source like to make stuff up so again I don't know if this is real.

It's a terrible source- they had Melo going tot he Bulls. No one else has run with their story regarding JR. I call BS!

I do actually like JR. I think he'll be focused on having a contract year and will opt out after this season, so I'm not bothered about his salary hit in 2015. He was good last year once he recovered from his offseason surgery, and he was good the season before that (apart from a terrible playoffs, but he was legitimately injured. Phil and Fisher might be able to get through to him.

I doubt this.

No one heard of the Chandler trade before it happened and no one was talking about NY signing Smith before it happened. I think that Jax runs a tight ship and is smart enough not to show his cards and lower the value of a player. JR can be very good in this offense. He is a talent and helos take the load off Melo. Fisher is the kind of coach that can get through to him also.

If JR is moved it will be for a better player in a package deal with Stat or Bargnani.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:JR is actually a valuable asset on a reasonable contract, especially compared to the ones given to SGs, so if we trade him, it must be for a better player at another position and/or flexibility for next season capwise.

I dont see those rumored players to be improvements, especially with long contracts. Do you?

No. I'd rather sign Omri Caspi to a one year deal than bring in Ilyasova for three additional years. Smith is OK, but he's the kind of guy I'd want bring after we made our play for a max player.

Ilyasova really only has 2 years left when you look at it -- year 3 is a team option for $8.4mm. If things didn't work out with him here, that option doesn't need to get picked up and we turn the page. In the meantime, Ilyasova's contract runs the same length as JR's and Pablo's and for basically the same money.

Another thing I was thinking -- supposed Milwaukee really doesn't want any part of JR Smith which very well could be. No problem -- let's try to work out something centered around Bargnani's expiring contract instead. We send Bargs + a sweetener (Thanasis, Ellington, even Cleanthony Early -- gotta give to get, plus I already know I could go out and instantly replace either guy with a good option on the cheap) and they send us Ilyasova and whatever cash is necessary to balance the deal. It would give them $8mm in cap flexibility starting next offseason and a nice young player to move forward with. Plus, it would open up more PT for Giannis A. and time for rookie lottery PF Jabari Parker (Bargnani would either see his PT reduced for the year or at 7', maybe Milwaukee plays him at C).

Bottom line -- this doesn't have to be built around JR. How bad does Milwaukee want to unload Ilyasova? And does Phil want him? Man, I hope he does! I'll take him!! This dude's a better player than Omri Casspi. 6'10" 235, mobile, interior/mid-range threat, puts it on the floor well, 3-pt range, very good hands and legit double-double rebounding ability every night provided he's used enough (which I'd like to see if we got him -- we get this guy, start him at the 4 right next to Melo and play him 30 mins a night). I think he could be everything we hoped Bargnani would be but isn't (Bargnani's not going for double-digit rebs on a regular basis the way this guy can):

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Regarding Ilyasova, the truth is the JR/Pablo for Ersan angle works much better for us than Bargnani. Best scenario would be to trade JR & Pablo's contract for Ilyasova's who deal runs the same length as these two for the same amount of money basically. If we did it for Bargs, we wouldn't maintain top cap flexibility for next summer which still should be a top priority. Unless we did this for Bargs, played Ilyasova 30+ mins a night and really featured him in the offense to the point where he became the excellent fit he very well could be (say he averaged 15 & 10 playing over 30 mins per, maybe more). If we really felt he could do that, would it be worth a $7.9mm cap hit next summer?

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