Knicks · Yes or No. Is It Time To Cut Bait On Andrea Bargnani? (page 3)
F500ONE wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
I thought Tyson was a jerk to be honest
I can understand Phil's reasoning for wanting to dump him
But don't sell this crap about Tyson not being a fitAnd then sell Bargnani as a triangle surprise, naaaaahhhh Phil sorry won't cut it
I wasnt a fan of Tyson talking in the media, but it seems he said the same things in private. The thing that gets me is hearing how he performed poorly...true he did, so did others. But the blame laid at one mans feet when everone contributed. Even the knuckle head JR spilled the beans and said Tyson was having family issues with his mom which was affecting his play.
I still will say imo Phil has done the best he could...these cats on this team are not that good.
knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
It's obvious Phil blocked the trade for Lowry? Phil came on in March, the trade deadline was in February. Hmmmmmm, I knew Phil was the zen master but I didn't know he was capable of time travel. Wow.
Dagger wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
It's obvious Phil blocked the trade for Lowry? Phil came on in March, the trade deadline was in February. Hmmmmmm, I knew Phil was the zen master but I didn't know he was capable of time travel. Wow.
I'd suspect that as discussions ensued that phil was consulted on potential trades and thought the better of it.
Tyson in his career has had problems with his health and early on expectations of being a top pick out of highschool. Being DPOY he lived up to his contract and potential and in the right system at the right price he still can be productive.
I don't care what anyone says, this is a rebuilding year. WHile nobody comes out and says it this is a year to install a culture and clear out contracts.
Regarding Bargnani, I am on record months ago as believing he can thrive in this system. While some of you choose to look at the obvious and write him off the fact is we are not cutting him and paying for him at the same time unless we have a blue chip yoot in the wings we need to develop. A trade could always happen where a contending team can take on his expiring but he has to get healthy. WE still have 82 game left last I saw and while he might not be part of our future he can certainly contribute on teh court and off it if he becomes a good trade asset. Fact is at the right price he might see NY as a good place because the system might elevate his value but he can't monetize it on other teams. Its called reletive value.
Fact is a successful Bargnani is a very good thing. Half the league has guys with strains and pulls taking time. I would not sweat this.
This could get ugly early in the season. I not writing anyone off until January.
In fact, while Phil has not track record at the helm I trust this mofo more than anyone I can recall since Riley. He is not coaching but "PHish", being PHil, Fish, Rambus and Cleamons have a lot of sucess amung them and I trust their decision.
They write off Bargs, then he's gone.
Dagger wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
It's obvious Phil blocked the trade for Lowry? Phil came on in March, the trade deadline was in February. Hmmmmmm, I knew Phil was the zen master but I didn't know he was capable of time travel. Wow.
Dolan and Phil had been discussing him taking over since 12/12/13, Dolan admitted that during his meetings with phil he came to the grand reality that he knew next to nothing about building a championship team. It's possible that he asked phil for his advice about trading for lowry, and I'm sure that draft pick nix the deal.
IMO, you get hurt and fall behind, that basically drops you in the rotation,especially if it's training camp and your position is stack..
Certainly, everyone fantasizes about the image of the 6'11 gazelle who can rise a nail a jumper (or make the extra pass... or snatch a timely rebound), but there are only a few Dirk's to go around. The more time passes, the more Barganani's predicted usefulness in the Knicks system becomes counterfeit.
knicks1248 wrote:Dagger wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
It's obvious Phil blocked the trade for Lowry? Phil came on in March, the trade deadline was in February. Hmmmmmm, I knew Phil was the zen master but I didn't know he was capable of time travel. Wow.Dolan and Phil had been discussing him taking over since 12/12/13, Dolan admitted that during his meetings with phil he came to the grand reality that he knew next to nothing about building a championship team. It's possible that he asked phil for his advice about trading for lowry, and I'm sure that draft pick nix the deal.
IMO, you get hurt and fall behind, that basically drops you in the rotation,especially if it's training camp and your position is stack..
I remember Dolan saying they didn't want to make any moves until Phil was locked up. And he could make the decision's.
F500ONE wrote:Splat wrote:F5, your logic on all of your points is opposite of mineCiting Dallas trade? We were lucky Tyson was wanted back by Cuban. Nobody wants the other ones. Poor analogy. Implying Phil could have pulled the trigger on dumping these two swollen contracts for players nobody needs as a comparable event to the Dallas trade is illogical IMO.
Lumping in JR with Bargs & Amare makes no sense to me. JR has another year. He can still be harnessed and may be needed far more than the other two. Plus, he can be traded in the next two seasons if he is playing well and behaved, particularly in his last year when a contender needs a sixth man for $6M. Comparing him as a trading asset to Bargs and Amare does not compute at all.
You're willing to give up assets we can use. I am not. Not worth going into that further.
You're drawing very thinly supported assertions to infer Phil is dropping the ball. I would do exactly what he is doing and let those two mooks expire and get what you can out of them if possible this year, but give up nothing and take on no more baggage to dump them. This year is ideal for that.
A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
There's also not enough time[playing wise nor life of contract]To call ourselves duping teams
Into an increased value of any of these BumsLose a battle but win the war
Nah, keep the pick. Let Bargs expire. Use the draft and cap space to improve the team or add assets next season. Trading a first round pick to dump Bargs is not value. Value would be trading him for a productive player with an extra yr that a team is looking to dump for cap space. If he is worth dipping into our 2015 cap space.
misterearl wrote:Nalod - the evidence is against Bargnani. Why does he receive a free pass when he has done little to validate his great expectations?Certainly, everyone fantasizes about the image of the 6'11 gazelle who can rise a nail a jumper (or make the extra pass... or snatch a timely rebound), but there are only a few Dirk's to go around. The more time passes, the more Barganani's predicted usefulness in the Knicks system becomes counterfeit.
Just for accuracy Bargs was measured at 7' without shoes and 7'1.25" with shoes. Being 7' with a jumper and good driving ability is why they talked about Dirk comparisons. For a little while there it looked like he was on his way to maybe being a Dirk lite type player. Scoring 20 ppg and shooting from all over. He was our 2nd leading scorer for a good part of the start of last year before he fell. He isn't Dirk, but he can be useful if he's engaged and used right. Phil and Fish seem interested in getting something out of him.
In the only game he played this preseason Bargs looked good. From the way Fish was talking about Bargs up to that point he must have looked good in practice. Why not let things play out and see what happens? If he gets healthy and contributes, great. If not they can always still decide to move him but his value could be increased if he plays and has some success. It's worth taking a chance to see if that happens. His value can't be any worse than it is now so they should try to see if he can help this team 1st.
Splat wrote:Just for the sake of accuracy: Bargs is only 26 inches tall after he leaps into the air and lands on his wrist.
I don't know if i'd give him 26". He landed pretty flat. More like 15". Besides he destroyed his elbow his wrists are pretty flexible from not lifting weights.
Dagger wrote:knickscity wrote:Splat wrote:knickscity wrote:Acy might have been Phil's better deal and it didnt take a valued player at all. If Dallas makes a run anywhere close to a title with Tyson...Phil shyt the bed. Dallas wanted Tyson back badly....I'll leave it there.How does Dallas' performance cause a re-evaluation of the trade? Either it was good for us or it was not.
We had offers for Tyson mid-season last year and should have pulled the trigger. We were lucky Dallas was still around to deal with.
The reality is quite simple. Tyson became a serious underachiever as time went on here. If he re-energizes with Dallas and does well here, that doesn't change the fact he became a poor teammate here and he needed to be moved.
What was good for Dallas was good for us. We extracted the thorn called Felton from our paw in the process and got three players who are part of our rotation now. That's good no matter how well Tyson does.
Shyt the bed? Come on
Phil was in tow mid season....it's obvious he blocked the trade for Lowry. The reality is, this team didnt fit a player like Tyson. tyson was a piece to the puzzle, when the team expected him to be the puzzle and the box it came in. Miraculously he won DPOY in that role and became a first time all-star....so no he didnt underperform...he exceeeded.
Now if we're talking about playoffs.....JR sucked ass, so did Melo and his 40% shooting and unrelenting near record attempt heaves at the basket claiming his shoulder was hurt at the same time.
Sorry though, if Dallas wins anything close to atitle while we're still searching for a first round flameout....that deal was lost.
It's obvious Phil blocked the trade for Lowry? Phil came on in March, the trade deadline was in February. Hmmmmmm, I knew Phil was the zen master but I didn't know he was capable of time travel. Wow.
There were rumors-reports Phil was
Pulling strings since December last yr behind the scenes
newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:Splat wrote:F5, your logic on all of your points is opposite of mineCiting Dallas trade? We were lucky Tyson was wanted back by Cuban. Nobody wants the other ones. Poor analogy. Implying Phil could have pulled the trigger on dumping these two swollen contracts for players nobody needs as a comparable event to the Dallas trade is illogical IMO.
Lumping in JR with Bargs & Amare makes no sense to me. JR has another year. He can still be harnessed and may be needed far more than the other two. Plus, he can be traded in the next two seasons if he is playing well and behaved, particularly in his last year when a contender needs a sixth man for $6M. Comparing him as a trading asset to Bargs and Amare does not compute at all.
You're willing to give up assets we can use. I am not. Not worth going into that further.
You're drawing very thinly supported assertions to infer Phil is dropping the ball. I would do exactly what he is doing and let those two mooks expire and get what you can out of them if possible this year, but give up nothing and take on no more baggage to dump them. This year is ideal for that.
A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
There's also not enough time[playing wise nor life of contract]To call ourselves duping teams
Into an increased value of any of these BumsLose a battle but win the war
Nah, keep the pick. Let Bargs expire. Use the draft and cap space to improve the team or add assets next season. Trading a first round pick to dump Bargs is not value. Value would be trading him for a productive player with an extra yr that a team is looking to dump for cap space. If he is worth dipping into our 2015 cap space.
For a player like Mike Scott, D.J. Augustin, Robert Sacre
You'd be a fool not to do a deal like that
Comb the league and find comparable talent
And potential trading partner
F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:Splat wrote:F5, your logic on all of your points is opposite of mineCiting Dallas trade? We were lucky Tyson was wanted back by Cuban. Nobody wants the other ones. Poor analogy. Implying Phil could have pulled the trigger on dumping these two swollen contracts for players nobody needs as a comparable event to the Dallas trade is illogical IMO.
Lumping in JR with Bargs & Amare makes no sense to me. JR has another year. He can still be harnessed and may be needed far more than the other two. Plus, he can be traded in the next two seasons if he is playing well and behaved, particularly in his last year when a contender needs a sixth man for $6M. Comparing him as a trading asset to Bargs and Amare does not compute at all.
You're willing to give up assets we can use. I am not. Not worth going into that further.
You're drawing very thinly supported assertions to infer Phil is dropping the ball. I would do exactly what he is doing and let those two mooks expire and get what you can out of them if possible this year, but give up nothing and take on no more baggage to dump them. This year is ideal for that.
A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
There's also not enough time[playing wise nor life of contract]To call ourselves duping teams
Into an increased value of any of these BumsLose a battle but win the war
Nah, keep the pick. Let Bargs expire. Use the draft and cap space to improve the team or add assets next season. Trading a first round pick to dump Bargs is not value. Value would be trading him for a productive player with an extra yr that a team is looking to dump for cap space. If he is worth dipping into our 2015 cap space.
For a player like Mike Scott, D.J. Augustin, Robert Sacre
You'd be a fool not to do a deal like that
Comb the league and find comparable talentAnd potential trading partner
First round draft picks are worth more then those players. Players like those are available to be signed every free agency no need to give up draft picks for them. Let him walk and sign a player of that calibre in the offseason like we did with Jason Smith. None of those guys make us contenders and we have our draft pick this yr. If we suck then we add a lottery pick.
We won 54 games and still landed a solid player in Hardawy jr a yr ago. So thinking that the pick will hold little value is flawed. Nobody knows who is coming out yet in 2018 or how deep the draft will be or where we will even be picking. I would only trade a pick during the draft going forward unless the deal was a nobrainer.
newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:Splat wrote:F5, your logic on all of your points is opposite of mineCiting Dallas trade? We were lucky Tyson was wanted back by Cuban. Nobody wants the other ones. Poor analogy. Implying Phil could have pulled the trigger on dumping these two swollen contracts for players nobody needs as a comparable event to the Dallas trade is illogical IMO.
Lumping in JR with Bargs & Amare makes no sense to me. JR has another year. He can still be harnessed and may be needed far more than the other two. Plus, he can be traded in the next two seasons if he is playing well and behaved, particularly in his last year when a contender needs a sixth man for $6M. Comparing him as a trading asset to Bargs and Amare does not compute at all.
You're willing to give up assets we can use. I am not. Not worth going into that further.
You're drawing very thinly supported assertions to infer Phil is dropping the ball. I would do exactly what he is doing and let those two mooks expire and get what you can out of them if possible this year, but give up nothing and take on no more baggage to dump them. This year is ideal for that.
A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
There's also not enough time[playing wise nor life of contract]To call ourselves duping teams
Into an increased value of any of these BumsLose a battle but win the war
Nah, keep the pick. Let Bargs expire. Use the draft and cap space to improve the team or add assets next season. Trading a first round pick to dump Bargs is not value. Value would be trading him for a productive player with an extra yr that a team is looking to dump for cap space. If he is worth dipping into our 2015 cap space.
For a player like Mike Scott, D.J. Augustin, Robert Sacre
You'd be a fool not to do a deal like that
Comb the league and find comparable talentAnd potential trading partner
First round draft picks are worth more then those players. Players like those are available to be signed every free agency no need to give up draft picks for them. Let him walk and sign a player of that calibre in the offseason like we did with Jason Smith. None of those guys make us contenders and we have our draft pick this yr. If we suck then we add a lottery pick.
We won 54 games and still landed a solid player in Hardawy jr a yr ago. So thinking that the pick will hold little value is flawed. Nobody knows who is coming out yet in 2018 or how deep the draft will be or where we will even be picking. I would only trade a pick during the draft going forward unless the deal was a nobrainer.
We'll have to agree to disagree
For the record Phil could have traded
The pick during this past draft
And got back possibly a talent to help now
Sometimes it's about the talent
And what they'll be paid
Not to mention if he finds a team under
The cap he generates a TPE to sign those caliber of players
You know those who might get cut but be eligible for playoffss
Should we still be over the cap
Thanks to taking on contracts like Bargnani, on top of his suckiness
It's created cap inflexibility particularly the Tax
Going forward I guess we'll be much better off here
F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:Splat wrote:F5, your logic on all of your points is opposite of mineCiting Dallas trade? We were lucky Tyson was wanted back by Cuban. Nobody wants the other ones. Poor analogy. Implying Phil could have pulled the trigger on dumping these two swollen contracts for players nobody needs as a comparable event to the Dallas trade is illogical IMO.
Lumping in JR with Bargs & Amare makes no sense to me. JR has another year. He can still be harnessed and may be needed far more than the other two. Plus, he can be traded in the next two seasons if he is playing well and behaved, particularly in his last year when a contender needs a sixth man for $6M. Comparing him as a trading asset to Bargs and Amare does not compute at all.
You're willing to give up assets we can use. I am not. Not worth going into that further.
You're drawing very thinly supported assertions to infer Phil is dropping the ball. I would do exactly what he is doing and let those two mooks expire and get what you can out of them if possible this year, but give up nothing and take on no more baggage to dump them. This year is ideal for that.
A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
There's also not enough time[playing wise nor life of contract]To call ourselves duping teams
Into an increased value of any of these BumsLose a battle but win the war
Nah, keep the pick. Let Bargs expire. Use the draft and cap space to improve the team or add assets next season. Trading a first round pick to dump Bargs is not value. Value would be trading him for a productive player with an extra yr that a team is looking to dump for cap space. If he is worth dipping into our 2015 cap space.
For a player like Mike Scott, D.J. Augustin, Robert Sacre
You'd be a fool not to do a deal like that
Comb the league and find comparable talentAnd potential trading partner
First round draft picks are worth more then those players. Players like those are available to be signed every free agency no need to give up draft picks for them. Let him walk and sign a player of that calibre in the offseason like we did with Jason Smith. None of those guys make us contenders and we have our draft pick this yr. If we suck then we add a lottery pick.
We won 54 games and still landed a solid player in Hardawy jr a yr ago. So thinking that the pick will hold little value is flawed. Nobody knows who is coming out yet in 2018 or how deep the draft will be or where we will even be picking. I would only trade a pick during the draft going forward unless the deal was a nobrainer.
We'll have to agree to disagreeFor the record Phil could have traded
The pick during this past draftAnd got back possibly a talent to help now
Sometimes it's about the talentAnd what they'll be paid
Not to mention if he finds a team underThe cap he generates a TPE to sign those caliber of players
You know those who might get cut but be eligible for playoffssShould we still be over the cap
Thanks to taking on contracts like Bargnani, on top of his suckinessIt's created cap inflexibility particularly the Tax
Going forward I guess we'll be much better off here
Maybe something will open up favorably for us as the season goes along. We know that Amare is probably headed to Philly at the deadline.
babyKnicks wrote:in a nutshell... Splat, you may want to enjoy the benefits of this feature as well...
Instruct me in this wondrous feature maestro. I have not seen how that is done here.
Splat wrote:babyKnicks wrote:in a nutshell... Splat, you may want to enjoy the benefits of this feature as well...Instruct me in this wondrous feature maestro. I have not seen how that is done here.
with great power comes great responsibility:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/services/p...
TripleThreat wrote:F500ONE wrote:A 2018 1st is of no relevance to our future successZero whatsoever, keep telling yourself it would be
The current rookie slotting system and contract setup is vested until 2020.There will be almost certainly be a labor war in 2016-2017.
There is a current strong push in the ownership group to shift the current lottery from 3 teams to SIX TEAMS. This is part of the measures proposed to reduce tanking and give more teams a chance not to end up on the league "treadmill of slow death"
No one is quite sure what the new labor war will bring. 2018 in sports time is FOREVER from now. To say, what could be the first overall pick in that 2018 draft for the Knicks given lottery reform and the fallout of the next labor war, and just say it has no value now is crazy.
The reason teams are hoarding first round picks right now, and even 2nds in some cases, is because that vested 2020 window gives franchises COST CERTAINTY over those players. They aren't just cheap cost controlled labor, but they are grandfathered in to prevent the impact of a new labor deal from having an inflationary impact on their value. It's the same reason why folks who think the Knicks can get a 1st rounder out of Shumpert or STAT or Bargs are smoking crack.
FIRST ROUND PICKS IN THE MODERN NBA ARE WORTH GOLD. They don't always pan out, and they have limited value to contenders edging near the cap consistently, but THEY ARE WORTH SOLID GOLD TO A TEAM LIKE THE KNICKS.
It wasn't that long ago that the NFC West in the NFL was THE WORST division in all of pro football. Until it became a powerhouse. And now teams there are struggling again. To try to be predictive of draft value FOUR YEARS from now in pro sports is insane.
However look at the tea leaves. The owners WON THE LAST LABOR WAR. The players had to give back a good chunk of money and eat shorter contracts overall. Teams didn't get hard capped bu the luxury tax and repeater system essentially created an invisible hard cap for the league. Superstars will always get paid, that's simply a reality of pro sports, however draft picks mean cheap labor, and the NBA is moving towards the NFL model of using cheap labor.
The trick to a good organization is seeking out MARKET INEFFICIENCIES. Seeking value where the rest of the league OVERLOOKS IT. When Don Nelson was scouting internationally, even long long before even the Spurs were doing it, he was looking for hidden value. Same when he mined the CBA for guys like Mario Elie. Or got Manute Bol to stretch the floor as a three point shooter.
The consistent trend of bad organizations is to buck market trends of the entire league in the current marketplace. If the rest of the league covets and values 1st rounders, there is a REASON FOR IT. When the Knicks behave in a manner that devalues them, it works to the detriment of the franchise. It's like the Knicks trying to sell ice cream in the winter time. When the rest of the league is selling heavy jackets and space heaters.
What is "cutting bait" on Bargs?
He has ZERO CURRENT TRADE VALUE. You want to pay him so he can go play for another team? Where he might help a team win or lose (more likely lose), and if he does, what if it impacts the Knicks draft slot?
With Smith and STATs injury history and the general trend for big men in the NBA to be more injury prone than other positions, why tempt fate and cut him now when you might need the warm body later?
Also Bargs, until his rights are renounced, even as a free agent, IIRC, still offers the Knicks his BIRD RIGHTS. Which may offer a low chance , even a really low chance, to be useful in the offseason in some other move.
F500ONE, dude, actually read the current CBA sometime.
Great post. I learned a lot. Puts things in perspective.