Knicks · A catch & shoot SG/SF is what we need (page 1)

Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

THJ

Timmy is more then capable, but he needs to be coached. He has freakish athleticism and can shoot the rock. Bring in a guy to coach him on how to effectively use his screeners and keep him on a constant motion at all time when he is on the court, that will free up the paint for Carmelo and others to do damage in the low block.

C We need a stabilized two way big capable of giving us 20-10-2 who is 6-10 250++ a C/PF who can play both ways and give us post scoring post defense and rebounding.

PF--I think Carmelo can be the stretch PF for 32 minutes a game

SF If Shumpert can play like this--we already have our man

SG Id like to think that Timmy H can develop into this role and at worst 6th man. But that means developing passing skills and more of an all around game. But Im willing to be very patient with this player.

PG---I don't like any of our PG's including Calderon

Our back ups which will be very important-- Other than possibly early and possibly Jason Smith? Im not sure we have any long term on our roster. This can be worked on during the year with small trades. If a small trade doesnt work out--we move on at low cost. I'd like atleast one athletic PF. We need all new back up guards both sides.

So in conclusion

we need a stud frontcourt player. We need possibly 3-4 new guards and to completely rebuild the PG position. We need an athletic PF back up and one additional large C 7-0 260+++

I think we have some pieces in place. I urge the Knicks and Carmelo to stay at 4--dont complain and play hard 32 minutes a night. Thats what he is our stretch 4. I can accept him making 20mm I could care less.

While this current team is a cluster fck disaster--there are pieces we can work with--possibly good pieces.

Now we need to steal a couple of players off peoples benches and maybe a couple of draft picks.

This years W_L mean not much too me. In the end Id like to get a high draft pick and one max FA and like Philly is doing trolling for my new bench.

BRIGGS wrote:C We need a stabilized two way big capable of giving us 20-10-2 who is 6-10 250++ a C/PF who can play both ways and give us post scoring post defense and rebounding.

PF--I think Carmelo can be the stretch PF for 32 minutes a game

SF If Shumpert can play like this--we already have our man

SG Id like to think that Timmy H can develop into this role and at worst 6th man. But that means developing passing skills and more of an all around game. But Im willing to be very patient with this player.

PG---I don't like any of our PG's including Calderon

Our back ups which will be very important-- Other than possibly early and possibly Jason Smith? Im not sure we have any long term on our roster. This can be worked on during the year with small trades. If a small trade doesnt work out--we move on at low cost. I'd like atleast one athletic PF. We need all new back up guards both sides.

So in conclusion

we need a stud frontcourt player. We need possibly 3-4 new guards and to completely rebuild the PG position. We need an athletic PF back up and one additional large C 7-0 260+++

I think we have some pieces in place. I urge the Knicks and Carmelo to stay at 4--dont complain and play hard 32 minutes a night. Thats what he is our stretch 4. I can accept him making 20mm I could care less.

While this current team is a cluster fck disaster--there are pieces we can work with--possibly good pieces.

Now we need to steal a couple of players off peoples benches and maybe a couple of draft picks.

This years W_L mean not much too me. In the end Id like to get a high draft pick and one max FA and like Philly is doing trolling for my new bench.

I agree with everything you've mentioned. However, we won't be able to get that big man until next season. In an effort to win games in the interim, I am advocating using what we already have currently on the roster. Calderon is a nice player, but his lack of defense is alarming. Defense starts with back court players, because the opposing PGs start all plays. Larkin may be small, but his ability to disrupt the passing lane is commendable if you ask me.

Currently, our starters should be: larkins, THJ, Shumpert, Melo, and Dalembert. Under no circumstances that STAT should be on the court together with Melo. They are ball stoppers which slows the tempo/flow of the offense. The abovementioned starters are good enough to speed up the game and good enough to convert positive plays.

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:C We need a stabilized two way big capable of giving us 20-10-2 who is 6-10 250++ a C/PF who can play both ways and give us post scoring post defense and rebounding.

PF--I think Carmelo can be the stretch PF for 32 minutes a game

SF If Shumpert can play like this--we already have our man

SG Id like to think that Timmy H can develop into this role and at worst 6th man. But that means developing passing skills and more of an all around game. But Im willing to be very patient with this player.

PG---I don't like any of our PG's including Calderon

Our back ups which will be very important-- Other than possibly early and possibly Jason Smith? Im not sure we have any long term on our roster. This can be worked on during the year with small trades. If a small trade doesnt work out--we move on at low cost. I'd like atleast one athletic PF. We need all new back up guards both sides.

So in conclusion

we need a stud frontcourt player. We need possibly 3-4 new guards and to completely rebuild the PG position. We need an athletic PF back up and one additional large C 7-0 260+++

I think we have some pieces in place. I urge the Knicks and Carmelo to stay at 4--dont complain and play hard 32 minutes a night. Thats what he is our stretch 4. I can accept him making 20mm I could care less.

While this current team is a cluster fck disaster--there are pieces we can work with--possibly good pieces.

Now we need to steal a couple of players off peoples benches and maybe a couple of draft picks.

This years W_L mean not much too me. In the end Id like to get a high draft pick and one max FA and like Philly is doing trolling for my new bench.

I agree with everything you've mentioned. However, we won't be able to get that big man until next season. In an effort to win games in the interim, I am advocating using what we already have currently on the roster. Calderon is a nice player, but his lack of defense is alarming. Defense starts with back court players, because the opposing PGs start all plays. Larkin may be small, but his ability to disrupt the passing lane is commendable if you ask me.

Currently, our starters should be: larkins, THJ, Shumpert, Melo, and Dalembert. Under no circumstances that STAT should be on the court together with Melo. They are ball stoppers which slows the tempo/flow of the offense. The abovementioned starters are good enough to speed up the game and good enough to convert positive plays.

----> In an effort to win games in the interim

While I absolutely DO want to see Melo Shumpert THJ and Early and even Larkin play well--play consistent--I dont care if we lose. I think we can draft a really good big and sign a really good big--we could have a rebuilt frontline byt next year.

With THJ Early and Shumpert gaining experience with the Knicks set on keeping Melo at stretch 4--there is then way more in place over the longer term and more of a pathway to winning.

What exactly am I winning with this year? Bargs? Dalembart? Cole A? Amare? Smith on the frontline with Pable Jose and Larkin as our PG? Nope we'll win games but its in our best interest to win 30 and get a top 6-7 pick with a chance to get into the top 3.

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

100% This continues to be the biggest problem. I really thought this would be a point of emphasis in the off-season since not having a catch and shoot player that can make a 3 with any consistency kills our spacing. Also, the cuts out the triangle aren't going to be effective if people don't respect your ability to make a 3.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

100% This continues to be the biggest problem. I really thought this would be a point of emphasis in the off-season since not having a catch and shoot player that can make a 3 with any consistency kills our spacing. Also, the cuts out the triangle aren't going to be effective if people don't respect your ability to make a 3.

The Triangle is not a static offense

No 1 or 2 players should be moving

They all should be moving

If players like Melo and Amar'e play statue

You're not going to get proper movement-spacing elsewhere

I thought Shumpert said he was gonna be a slasher in this system

He's scoring most of his points shooting like he's Novak

As the season drags along he won't maintain this clip

Shump actually should be the main slasher-mover

I also see with Calderon's return his game may suffer

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

if you listened to the knicks pregame the other night it was alan hahn who shared a startling stat, something along the lines of "when melo does not dribble the ball he hits shots at a very high rate, but as soon as he takes even one dribble his shooting plummets, two dribbles it plummets further...." so we actually do have a decent catch and shoot player.

dk7th wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

if you listened to the knicks pregame the other night it was alan hahn who shared a startling stat, something along the lines of "when melo does not dribble the ball he hits shots at a very high rate, but as soon as he takes even one dribble his shooting plummets, two dribbles it plummets further...." so we actually do have a decent catch and shoot player.

Amazing how Hanhn knows this and the Knicks organize has no clue

BRIGGS wrote:C We need a stabilized two way big capable of giving us 20-10-2 who is 6-10 250++ a C/PF who can play both ways and give us post scoring post defense and rebounding.

PF--I think Carmelo can be the stretch PF for 32 minutes a game

SF If Shumpert can play like this--we already have our man

SG Id like to think that Timmy H can develop into this role and at worst 6th man. But that means developing passing skills and more of an all around game. But Im willing to be very patient with this player.

PG---I don't like any of our PG's including Calderon

Our back ups which will be very important-- Other than possibly early and possibly Jason Smith? Im not sure we have any long term on our roster. This can be worked on during the year with small trades. If a small trade doesnt work out--we move on at low cost. I'd like atleast one athletic PF. We need all new back up guards both sides.

So in conclusion

we need a stud frontcourt player. We need possibly 3-4 new guards and to completely rebuild the PG position. We need an athletic PF back up and one additional large C 7-0 260+++

I think we have some pieces in place. I urge the Knicks and Carmelo to stay at 4--dont complain and play hard 32 minutes a night. Thats what he is our stretch 4. I can accept him making 20mm I could care less.

While this current team is a cluster fck disaster--there are pieces we can work with--possibly good pieces.

Now we need to steal a couple of players off peoples benches and maybe a couple of draft picks.

This years W_L mean not much too me. In the end Id like to get a high draft pick and one max FA and like Philly is doing trolling for my new bench.

So we need Demarcus cousins? No other center averaging 20/10 unless you count Dwight.

EnySpree wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:C We need a stabilized two way big capable of giving us 20-10-2 who is 6-10 250++ a C/PF who can play both ways and give us post scoring post defense and rebounding.

PF--I think Carmelo can be the stretch PF for 32 minutes a game

SF If Shumpert can play like this--we already have our man

SG Id like to think that Timmy H can develop into this role and at worst 6th man. But that means developing passing skills and more of an all around game. But Im willing to be very patient with this player.

PG---I don't like any of our PG's including Calderon

Our back ups which will be very important-- Other than possibly early and possibly Jason Smith? Im not sure we have any long term on our roster. This can be worked on during the year with small trades. If a small trade doesnt work out--we move on at low cost. I'd like atleast one athletic PF. We need all new back up guards both sides.

So in conclusion

we need a stud frontcourt player. We need possibly 3-4 new guards and to completely rebuild the PG position. We need an athletic PF back up and one additional large C 7-0 260+++

I think we have some pieces in place. I urge the Knicks and Carmelo to stay at 4--dont complain and play hard 32 minutes a night. Thats what he is our stretch 4. I can accept him making 20mm I could care less.

While this current team is a cluster fck disaster--there are pieces we can work with--possibly good pieces.

Now we need to steal a couple of players off peoples benches and maybe a couple of draft picks.

This years W_L mean not much too me. In the end Id like to get a high draft pick and one max FA and like Philly is doing trolling for my new bench.

So we need Demarcus cousins? No other center averaging 20/10 unless you count Dwight.

*capable of giving us 20-10-2* Has the capabilities on certain nights etc.. BUT a guy who could avg that would be best!:)

F500ONE wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

100% This continues to be the biggest problem. I really thought this would be a point of emphasis in the off-season since not having a catch and shoot player that can make a 3 with any consistency kills our spacing. Also, the cuts out the triangle aren't going to be effective if people don't respect your ability to make a 3.

The Triangle is not a static offense

No 1 or 2 players should be moving

They all should be moving

If players like Melo and Amar'e play statue

You're not going to get proper movement-spacing elsewhere

I thought Shumpert said he was gonna be a slasher in this system

He's scoring most of his points shooting like he's Novak

As the season drags along he won't maintain this clip

Shump actually should be the main slasher-mover

I also see with Calderon's return his game may suffer

I understand that it is not a static offense, my point is really related to range (lack of) from most the backcourt. It's extremely difficult to cut to the basket if nobody has a perimeter shot worth respecting.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

100% This continues to be the biggest problem. I really thought this would be a point of emphasis in the off-season since not having a catch and shoot player that can make a 3 with any consistency kills our spacing. Also, the cuts out the triangle aren't going to be effective if people don't respect your ability to make a 3.

The Triangle is not a static offense

No 1 or 2 players should be moving

They all should be moving

If players like Melo and Amar'e play statue

You're not going to get proper movement-spacing elsewhere

I thought Shumpert said he was gonna be a slasher in this system

He's scoring most of his points shooting like he's Novak

As the season drags along he won't maintain this clip

Shump actually should be the main slasher-mover

I also see with Calderon's return his game may suffer

I understand that it is not a static offense, my point is really related to range (lack of) from most the backcourt. It's extremely difficult to cut to the basket if nobody has a perimeter shot worth respecting.

Shump's shot is deadly

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Looking at our current roster, I couldn't find one guy that can operate without the ball. We do have a couple of guys who are capable, but I don't believe they are aware of it. Fisher needs to make it a point to emphasize that guys like THJ and JR put in the time necessary to work on that part of the game. Guys like Korver and Ray Allen have impacted the game solely because of that talent, I believe the aforementioned players can do the same as well. As per recorded stats, they are not efficient shooters off the drible, but fair much better as catch and shoot players. Put in screen-plays to free them up, and give them the green ligh to shoot when open.

if you listened to the knicks pregame the other night it was alan hahn who shared a startling stat, something along the lines of "when melo does not dribble the ball he hits shots at a very high rate, but as soon as he takes even one dribble his shooting plummets, two dribbles it plummets further...." so we actually do have a decent catch and shoot player.

Amazing how Hanhn knows this and the Knicks organize has no clue

There was another stat floating around that showed JR Smith is one of the most effective Catch and shoot players in the league:http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/1...

hard to catch and shoot effectively without good guards and guard penetration.

Melo's is deadly at the 3 when catching and shooting. Who is creating that opportunity?

What we really need is a good passing big man that can shoot more than a catch/shoot SG/SF. The triangle always had these kind of PFs and Cs with the exception of Shaq. Shaq was a good passer though and demanded a double team.

What we need............

Is to not do anything stupid this year, draft well and keep cap space for a big.
Problem is getting thru this season.

Having just Melo and THjr doesn't solve the problem. Calderon will also be good, but we need to be loaded with spot up shooters. Everyone on the team should be able to shoot 40% or better as a spot up 3pt shooter, and if they can't, we should look to upgrade the position. That's the nba right now. The great teams are loaded with shooters and we should approach free agency with that in mind.

mreinman wrote:hard to catch and shoot effectively without good guards and guard penetration.

Melo's is deadly at the 3 when catching and shooting. Who is creating that opportunity?

Shumpert

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:hard to catch and shoot effectively without good guards and guard penetration.

Melo's is deadly at the 3 when catching and shooting. Who is creating that opportunity?

Shumpert

Is this sarcasm? While his play has improved, Shump hasn't demonstrated anything to show that he is capable of being a facilitator in this league, or any league for that matter.