Knicks · So Are Jose and Iman Myths? (page 2)

Priggy is 37 and a nice solid 6-4 guy with a limited offensive skill set. Good guy, and if on the Spurs we'd be singing his praise.
Year 4 and this is Shump. Read his draft report, its spot on. Players are risks and some times they turn into DWade, and sometimes they are Ray Williams. Great athletic tools but sometmes they don't break out.

Melo is an all star on a very bad team. FluTyson is missed on defense. He sucked last year and we frustrated with Woodson. Moving on. Nobody we replaced is better than he was. Calderon is not in the rhythem of the triangle and it will take time. We'll lose lots more games.

My expectations were "its a tank job". THis was week one. Im ok with this team. Melo, THjr and Wear are the keepers. The rest are trade fodder or expirings.
Phil might be able to do miricles but this is the season we needed to take a beating and let contracts expire and get a solid draft pick.

Fans don't have a say but to boo. With Phil at the helm there is a vision. 10 years ago when the garden booed Chaney and the knicks post McDyss the panic ensued and Isiah was bought in to Leverage into a disaster.
This season of loss needs to happen.

If calderone performs, trade him.
If Bargs comes back strong, trade him.
If come trade deadline Stat can take a team over the top and we can get a pick, trade him.

If not, let those expire. If Shump is not deemed to be fit for trianglulation, say buh-bye. Not sure what his value is, he might be china bound for all we know.
Last year we might have been able to move him, but this year who knows. We don't.

THjr might be struggling because the new system does not come easy. Might say the same for most of our guys. If this is the case, so be it.
This is why teams don't employ it, they don't have patience or the forethought to rebuild with a system. IF this is our plan, so be it.

Maybe my take is the myth?

Nalod wrote:
ONe week back and the expectations are not met.
Maybe the problem is a fans expectations and perceptions.

Priggy is 37 and a nice solid 6-4 guy with a limited offensive skill set. Good guy, and if on the Spurs we'd be singing his praise.
Year 4 and this is Shump. Read his draft report, its spot on. Players are risks and some times they turn into DWade, and sometimes they are Ray Williams. Great athletic tools but sometmes they don't break out.

Melo is an all star on a very bad team. FluTyson is missed on defense. He sucked last year and we frustrated with Woodson. Moving on. Nobody we replaced is better than he was. Calderon is not in the rhythem of the triangle and it will take time. We'll lose lots more games.

My expectations were "its a tank job". THis was week one. Im ok with this team. Melo, THjr and Wear are the keepers. The rest are trade fodder or expirings.
Phil might be able to do miricles but this is the season we needed to take a beating and let contracts expire and get a solid draft pick.

Fans don't have a say but to boo. With Phil at the helm there is a vision. 10 years ago when the garden booed Chaney and the knicks post McDyss the panic ensued and Isiah was bought in to Leverage into a disaster.
This season of loss needs to happen.

If calderone performs, trade him.
If Bargs comes back strong, trade him.
If come trade deadline Stat can take a team over the top and we can get a pick, trade him.

If not, let those expire. If Shump is not deemed to be fit for trianglulation, say buh-bye. Not sure what his value is, he might be china bound for all we know.
Last year we might have been able to move him, but this year who knows. We don't.

THjr might be struggling because the new system does not come easy. Might say the same for most of our guys. If this is the case, so be it.
This is why teams don't employ it, they don't have patience or the forethought to rebuild with a system. IF this is our plan, so be it.

Maybe my take is the myth?

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

exactly

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

exactly

+1.
And please haterz, don't tell us CAA is still calling the shots on PT. Melo and his entourage get paid no matter how many minutes he averages.

Nalod wrote:
ONe week back and the expectations are not met.
Maybe the problem is a fans expectations and perceptions.

If it's a "tank job" then citing the week or

Time span is irrelevant Nalod, you realize that right

And as you carry on Aristotle style OTOH

When it comes to expectations and perceptions

It only smacked those in the face who wild talked 48-50wins

And winning the division, those who thought less

Only come up short in pegging the precise failures

But will be rewarded soon enough as a lotto losses equal a lotto chances this summer

Fishmike you now think Phil is tanking intentionally

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

Probably not, but it may also be that the organization is more rudderless than it is presumed to be under Jackson. I'd say it was pretty risky letting him back on the court so quickly. This is the one franchise I can count on to misdiagnose and keep playing players when they should be recuperating.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

MSG makes north of $2.5mil every time they open the door

Whether Melo plays or not

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

They only have one guy who belongs in an NBA starting lineup and maybe 3 guys who would make an 8 man rotation. They were predicted to be pretty bad. Maybe the team is slightly worse than predicted but only slightly.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

Maybe the team is slightly worse than predicted but only slightly.

You had them at 40 and I 34, I think DK 35

When you say slightly what's your definition of slightly

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

They only have one guy who belongs in an NBA starting lineup and maybe 3 guys who would make an 8 man rotation. They were predicted to be pretty bad. Maybe the team is slightly worse than predicted but only slightly.

Whatever you say Bon. I agree with it they were predicted to be a 37 win team. I don't want to be caught anywhere near 37 wins. I think Jackson and Fisher know this. They have higher standards than anyone one of us they come from winning. All we have known is losing any plan is seen with skepticism by most NYK fans.

I believe there is a plan in place and it revolves around the lottery/free agency. There is going to be a lot of losing and I for one want all of it. If they don't win another game I will be the happiest clam in the world.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

They only have one guy who belongs in an NBA starting lineup and maybe 3 guys who would make an 8 man rotation. They were predicted to be pretty bad. Maybe the team is slightly worse than predicted but only slightly.

Whatever you say Bon. I agree with it they were predicted to be a 37 win team. I don't want to be caught anywhere near 37 wins. I think Jackson and Fisher know this. They have higher standards than anyone one of us they come from winning. All we have known is losing any plan is seen with skepticism by most NYK fans.

I believe there is a plan in place and it revolves around the lottery/free agency. There is going to be a lot of losing and I for one want all of it. If they don't win another game I will be the happiest clam in the world.

So Phil is allowed to rob your cupboards bare of goods

As long as he promises to return with Gold and other precious stones

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- New York Knicks president Phil Jackson believes that his team will make the playoffs this season in the revamped Eastern Conference.

The Knicks won just 37 games last year and missed the postseason for the first time in four seasons.

"We believe that we're going to be a playoff team and then we don't know how far we'll be able to go," Jackson said Friday. "We're hoping for the best."

Jackson shook up the Knicks' roster in his first offseason as team president.

In addition to re-signing Carmelo Anthony, Jackson fired coach Mike Woodson and hired rookie coach Derek Fisher.

He also traded starters Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler to Dallas for a package that included veteran point guard Jose Calderon and center Samuel Dalembert.

"We have really good depth on this team. I think we feel like we're backed up in every position with some depth, and I think that's really good," Jackson said. "Derek can feature what he wants to feature on the different units during preseason and find out who works well together."

Panic?
Trades?
Instant gradification trade?

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:You can't analyze when your in tank mode. It's like beating you head against the wall.

If Melo comes back two games after a back injury, you're not in tank mode.

I thought that was stupid that Melo came back so soon. But they are tanking and its a very good move go do so. That was a Melo decision. Got a brand to market. With or without Melo the tank is on. Still got to fill the seats and people come to see Melo.

not buying it. Melo played > 41 minutes last night.

We are tanking but its not intentional.

And they lost. Like I said with or without they be tanking. You can see it. Aren't you guys seeing it? I know this isn't a good team but I don't think they are this bad, I think they are getting a little help.

Maybe the team is slightly worse than predicted but only slightly.

You had them at 40 and I 34, I think DK 35

When you say slightly what's your definition of slightly

Fair enough. I've also said that I'm a biased fan who tends to overestimate the team - maybe not to the extent some here do but I still tend to overestimate them. The statistical models tended to have the team wins in the mid 30s. Right now, they're on pace for mid 20s, but I think that's attributable to Calderon being out and slight underachievement.

F500ONE wrote:The reason I pick these 2 players

They were supposedly the 2 most promising difference makers

To turn a borderline 37 win team into a 50 win team

You could argue Jose hasn't been healthy but it's not a valid excuse

As we needed him to be ready day 1

Chumpert hey his play never passed the eye nor stat sheet test with me

Simply a puke all your acid out of your stomach type of player

Which one of them becomes legendary

IMAN is absolutely a MYTH -- he is brutal offensively and has the b-ball IQ of a chipmunk.

Jose has always been an outstanding player --- he's just old and can't beat people off the dribble any longer.

Knicks1969 wrote:I told you all that Shump could not keep the early production up. He got all of his points minus Carlderon in the lineup. Upon Calderon's return he is no longer asked to dominate the ball, so that messed up his rythm. Giving the greenlight he is given by fisher, this dude really should be called on for more points and rebounds. He is by far the only guard who has gotten consistent minutes under Fisher

He went south long before Jose returned -- go back and check -- Iman's play has nothing to do with Jose and everything to do with Iman being bad at basketball.