SwishAndDish13 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Keep in mind the .450 win team played closer to a .250 teamThe majority of last season, you could .450 was flukish
How does a .450 team play like a .250 team? Did the score-keepers make a lot of mistakes?
Haha. They actually lost a crazy amount of 1 possession games, so this really could have been higher. I would prefer .250 to .450. .450 is the worst thing you can do in this league.
Then we should have traded Tyson for something worthwhile long-term, not for players whose abilities keep us stuck at the .250 level anyway.
And we should have traded Melo last year.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Melo's endorsement deals may include a minimum "games played" and "minutes played" clause. Can't imagine Jordan brand paying top dollar for a dude not living up to his marketing hype.
NardDogNation wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Melo's endorsement deals may include a minimum "games played" and "minutes played" clause. Can't imagine Jordan brand paying top dollar for a dude not living up to his marketing hype.
I doubt that's even allowed. I don't think you can give someone a contract that mandates or puts in qualifications about how some other employer will use your services.
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
That thought has crossed my mind and blanketed my optimism of the pick. It's one of the major reasons why I want us to get one of the top 3 picks this year, who are bullet proof talents. But even then, I wonder if this team has the resources to properly develop young talent, especially with things that extend beyond basketball. Once upon a time, Michael Beasley and Derrick Williams were looked at as can't miss prospects. Now look at them!
Hmmm interesting. You may be right about it being against the rules bonn but I could see Melo forcing himself to play if he can because of the endorsements
Bonn1997 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Melo's endorsement deals may include a minimum "games played" and "minutes played" clause. Can't imagine Jordan brand paying top dollar for a dude not living up to his marketing hype.
I doubt that's even allowed. I don't think you can give someone a contract that mandates or puts in qualifications about how some other employer will use your services.
They might not be able to terminate the contract outright on those grounds but they may have provisions in there that are presented as "bonuses". So Melo might have his base money with his endorsements and gets "bonus" money if certain conditions are met. I don't think this would be unusual because we hear of players getting bonuses for playing in certain markets. I think Dwight Howard was one of those guys, as was LeBron when he left the Cavs.
I don't even think it had to do with bonuses. If Melo misses games he becomes less attractive to sponsors.
Last night was the ideal Knick game for me this season: Fight hard, make it entertaining, but make sure we still end up with the "L".
I am starting to see that the Knicks are sanguine about the prospects of having a top draft pick, so they don't freak out about the losses piling up. And neither do most of us. It's nice to be unstressed and hopeful for the rebuilding plan.
Moonangie wrote:Last night was the ideal Knick game for me this season: Fight hard, make it entertaining, but make sure we still end up with the "L".I am starting to see that the Knicks are sanguine about the prospects of having a top draft pick, so they don't freak out about the losses piling up. And neither do most of us. It's nice to be unstressed and hopeful for the rebuilding plan.
Why don't we treat Melo like an important long-term investment and rest him much more then?
I think it doesn't make much since to compare these 20 games to all of last season, if that is what you're doing. this year we're a team full of youth that even includes our coach. along with that we have implementation of new schemes on both offense and defense and have had injuries to almost every key player in the rotation all of that in 20 games will likely equal 4 wins 9 times out of 10 but despite all that there's still 62 games left to be played and its not going to take 50 wins to make the playoffs in the east, it probably wont even take 50 to win the division honestly. the ideal end to the season is a lower playoff birth that'll give us the opportunity for our younger players to get some playoff experience while still staying around the early to middle part of the first round of the draft that way we can add a good player via the draft and another one via free agency next summer.
gunsnewing wrote:I don't even think it had to do with bonuses. If Melo misses games he becomes less attractive to sponsors.
+1 - I was actually furious he came back so quick. He is gonna run himself into the group. he needs to sit.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I don't even think it had to do with bonuses. If Melo misses games he becomes less attractive to sponsors.
+1 - I was actually furious he came back so quick. He is gonna run himself into the group. he needs to sit.
Yeah, he's a long-term $124 mil investment. It's worrisome that the organization thinks it's a good idea to play him so many minutes.
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Keep in mind the .450 win team played closer to a .250 teamThe majority of last season, you could .450 was flukish
How does a .450 team play like a .250 team? Did the score-keepers make a lot of mistakes?
Well Bonn real simple the .450 team
Went on a "who gave a rat's ass season ending 16-7 streak" last yr
The majority of the season they played
Like a .300 team which is closer to .250
Not much of the core changed, the parts that did
Haven't received any significant amount of minutes this yr
Thus remained that .300 winning pace core throughout 60gms last yr
The league got significantly better hence .300 drops to .250
And if we're going to bring up close losses
Hasn't this same .250 win team been involved in several already
Usually that's how it works, bad teams find ways to lose close games
And/or get blown out for the duration of them
F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Keep in mind the .450 win team played closer to a .250 teamThe majority of last season, you could .450 was flukish
How does a .450 team play like a .250 team? Did the score-keepers make a lot of mistakes?
Well Bonn real simple the .450 team
Went on a "who gave a rat ass season ending 16-7 streak" last yr
The majority of the season they played like a .300
Team which is closer to .250
Not much of the core changed the parts that did
Haven't received any significant amount of minutes
Thus remained that .300 winning pace core throughout 60gms last yr
The league got significantly better than us hence .300 drops to .250
And if we're going to bring up close losses
Hasn't this same .250 win team been involved in several already
Usually that's how it works bad teams find ways to lose close games
And/or get blown out for the duration of them
They were trying to make the playoffs. The games weren't meaningless. You can't pick and choose which games or stretches from a season count and represent the quality of the team and which don't.
If you could, I'd just as easily pick only the ones Tyson and Melo played in, which would probably put us closer to .550.
I posted here just out of happiness that "Melo" wasn't an option.
Bonn1997 wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Keep in mind the .450 win team played closer to a .250 teamThe majority of last season, you could .450 was flukish
How does a .450 team play like a .250 team? Did the score-keepers make a lot of mistakes?
Haha. They actually lost a crazy amount of 1 possession games, so this really could have been higher. I would prefer .250 to .450. .450 is the worst thing you can do in this league.
Then we should have traded Tyson for something worthwhile long-term, not for players whose abilities keep us stuck at the .250 level anyway.
And we should have traded Melo last year.
I suppose the figured it was the only way to shed Felton. Plus they liked the picks and Larkin in the deal. People can say what they want about Melo, but the league doesn't have too many players of his caliber so my guess is they figured keep him, tank 1 yr, scrap the rest. If they manage his minutes, this makes sense. If not, I'm lost.
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Keep in mind the .450 win team played closer to a .250 teamThe majority of last season, you could .450 was flukish
How does a .450 team play like a .250 team? Did the score-keepers make a lot of mistakes?
Well Bonn real simple the .450 team
Went on a "who gave a rat ass season ending 16-7 streak" last yr
The majority of the season they played like a .300
Team which is closer to .250
Not much of the core changed the parts that did
Haven't received any significant amount of minutes
Thus remained that .300 winning pace core throughout 60gms last yr
The league got significantly better than us hence .300 drops to .250
And if we're going to bring up close losses
Hasn't this same .250 win team been involved in several already
Usually that's how it works bad teams find ways to lose close games
And/or get blown out for the duration of them
They were trying to make the playoffs. The games weren't meaningless. You can't pick and choose which games or stretches from a season count and represent the quality of the team and which don't.
If you could, I'd just as easily pick only the ones Tyson and Melo played in, which would probably put us closer to .550.
No I'm looking at the first 60gms of chitty play Bonn[larger sample than 20]
We spent 60gms double digit losses below .500 all season practically
That told you all you needed to now about how bad this team was
Oh and the schedule was much softer back half
Atlanta lost something like 24 of their last 32 and we still didn't catch them
This tells you how bad we were, the 16-7 streak if you look at the 7 losses
Who they were to even more damning
Now I recently provided you with per 36 stats on Tyson proving he's not
Or let's say wasn't the difference maker you're trying to paint him to be
But since you bring up he and Melo playing together last year
I bet the numbers say we were more like .375 to .425 and not your .550
Non facts provided, give me a bit I can provide the data just to see
phil showing up 50% of the time and sitting on his throne 20 rows back does not garner the same respect as if he was sitting on the sidelines.
fisher did a bad job as the player rep last lockout.
there is nobody on the court to lead.
and the triangle is a sham.
just hope you guys make the right pick in the draft or it's another wasted year.
The games that Tyson and Melo actually played in 2013-2014
Knicks record was 22 and 28 winning % .440
In games that Tyson played regardless of who was injured
Knicks record was 23 and 31 winning % .425
I know you are bias to Tyson but let's do a better job
At presenting facts since this board tends to go Sabermetric Centric often
F500ONE wrote:The games that Tyson and Melo actually played in 2013-2014Knicks record was 22 and 28 winning % .440
In games that Tyson played regardless of who was injured
Knicks record was 23 and 31 winning % .425
I know you are bias to Tyson but let's do a better job
At presenting facts since this board tends to go Sabermtric Centric often
Then I was off in my guess but that's still double our winning % now. The team was also +0.4 points per 48 min when he was on the court (and -1.6 when off).
I'm "biased" towards trading Tyson (and any of our other players) *for good value*
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:The games that Tyson and Melo actually played in 2013-2014Knicks record was 22 and 28 winning % .440
In games that Tyson played regardless of who was injured
Knicks record was 23 and 31 winning % .425
I know you are bias to Tyson but let's do a better job
At presenting facts since this board tends to go Sabermtric Centric often
Then I was off in my guess but that's still double our winning % now.
I'm "biased" towards trading Tyson (and any of our other players) *for good value*
I agree we didn't get good enough value for Tyson
And we should have traded him some time January first part of February last year
When we went on that winning streak and he pulled down rebounds
For like a 3 week stretch like he's doing now
Teams were jockying more for positions then not as much
In the Summer time while trying to give up assets to do so
Something tells me Dallas was obviously one of those teams
Who wanted Tyson last year, they probably don't move Jose then though
