Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:The games that Tyson and Melo actually played in 2013-2014Knicks record was 22 and 28 winning % .440
In games that Tyson played regardless of who was injured
Knicks record was 23 and 31 winning % .425
I know you are bias to Tyson but let's do a better job
At presenting facts since this board tends to go Sabermtric Centric often
Then I was off in my guess but that's still double our winning % now.
I'm "biased" towards trading Tyson (and any of our other players) *for good value*
I agree we didn't get good enough value for Tyson
And we should have traded him some time January first part of February last year
When we went on that winning streak and he pulled down rebounds
For like a 3 week stretch like he's doing now
Teams were jockying more for positions then not as much
In the Summer time while trying to give up assets to do so
Something tells me Dallas was obviously one of those teams
Who wanted Tyson last year, they probably don't move Jose then though
We lost Felton. How come that was not a choice/option?
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?They are treating this season like summer league. Mixing rotations, getting adjusted to the new system, giving everyone a chance on any given night.
Yes... if given the chance to win they want that. Last night obviously showed that. Amare was diving the on the floor. Melo was trying to will the ball into the basket on a night nothing would fall for him. THjr attacking. JR played very hard. It was a great game to watch... really enjoyable. But no... they wont tell the players to tank but you can coach to tank without it being obvious. Its like an instructional league. They really dont care about the score. Thats what I see
It is either the coach does not have a clue about how to coach or is done deliberately. I don't understand why the coach can't pick 5 players and stick with them as starters.
Knicks1969 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?They are treating this season like summer league. Mixing rotations, getting adjusted to the new system, giving everyone a chance on any given night.
Yes... if given the chance to win they want that. Last night obviously showed that. Amare was diving the on the floor. Melo was trying to will the ball into the basket on a night nothing would fall for him. THjr attacking. JR played very hard. It was a great game to watch... really enjoyable. But no... they wont tell the players to tank but you can coach to tank without it being obvious. Its like an instructional league. They really dont care about the score. Thats what I see
It is either the coach does not have a clue about how to coach or is done deliberately. I don't understand why the coach can't pick 5 players and stick with them as starters.
Probably because we don't have 5 guys who even belong in an NBA rotation. If he had a set rotation, I'm sure people would criticize Fisher for being stubborn and not giving everyone a shot. You can't win as a coach of a D League roster.
Bonn1997 wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?They are treating this season like summer league. Mixing rotations, getting adjusted to the new system, giving everyone a chance on any given night.
Yes... if given the chance to win they want that. Last night obviously showed that. Amare was diving the on the floor. Melo was trying to will the ball into the basket on a night nothing would fall for him. THjr attacking. JR played very hard. It was a great game to watch... really enjoyable. But no... they wont tell the players to tank but you can coach to tank without it being obvious. Its like an instructional league. They really dont care about the score. Thats what I see
It is either the coach does not have a clue about how to coach or is done deliberately. I don't understand why the coach can't pick 5 players and stick with them as starters.
Probably because we don't have 5 guys who even belong in an NBA rotation
When Larry Brown did this and we all know he had a trashola roster
He was sabatoging on purpose and people wanted him outta here
When Fisher does it, it's because the roster is devoid of talent
Although some referenced the 54win team similarities hmmmmmmm
Maybe this is Fish saying to Phil we need another purge homie
Needless to say he needs to find some stability it's getting way past ridiculous
F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?They are treating this season like summer league. Mixing rotations, getting adjusted to the new system, giving everyone a chance on any given night.
Yes... if given the chance to win they want that. Last night obviously showed that. Amare was diving the on the floor. Melo was trying to will the ball into the basket on a night nothing would fall for him. THjr attacking. JR played very hard. It was a great game to watch... really enjoyable. But no... they wont tell the players to tank but you can coach to tank without it being obvious. Its like an instructional league. They really dont care about the score. Thats what I see
It is either the coach does not have a clue about how to coach or is done deliberately. I don't understand why the coach can't pick 5 players and stick with them as starters.
Probably because we don't have 5 guys who even belong in an NBA rotation
When Larry Brown did this and we all know he had a trashola roster
He was sabatoging on purpose and people wanted him outta here
When Fisher does it, it's because the roster is devoid of talent
Although some referenced the 54win team similarities hmmmmmmm
Maybe this is Fish saying to Phil we need another purge homie
Needless to say he needs to find some stability it's getting way past ridiculous
No, the roster was the problem with Larry Brown too
F500ONE wrote:Not infusing this team with enough youthAnd/Or playing our younger players more
You mean the young players that phil refuse to extend, and have no interest in keeping..yeah play them. Oh wait, you can't evaluate them either because of their wildly inconsistent minutes that they get. Coles, Wear, thj, are bench players, that already been establish.
Devolping talent is teaching them how to win, not tank
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
Bonn1997 wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?They are treating this season like summer league. Mixing rotations, getting adjusted to the new system, giving everyone a chance on any given night.
Yes... if given the chance to win they want that. Last night obviously showed that. Amare was diving the on the floor. Melo was trying to will the ball into the basket on a night nothing would fall for him. THjr attacking. JR played very hard. It was a great game to watch... really enjoyable. But no... they wont tell the players to tank but you can coach to tank without it being obvious. Its like an instructional league. They really dont care about the score. Thats what I see
It is either the coach does not have a clue about how to coach or is done deliberately. I don't understand why the coach can't pick 5 players and stick with them as starters.
Probably because we don't have 5 guys who even belong in an NBA rotation. If he had a set rotation, I'm sure people would criticize Fisher for being stubborn and not giving everyone a shot. You can't win as a coach of a D League roster.
so with your theory it's safe to say phil has put together a d league roster, the young guys have no future, and clearly phil doesn't know what the heck he's doing. If any player in last yrs draft has a better rookie season than Early, what then does that say about phils ability to draft.
Phil couldn't make one single trade after the tyson trade to complement the trade. Why trade TYSON if you have no interest in winning, phil can not be that stupid
knicks1248 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Not infusing this team with enough youthAnd/Or playing our younger players more
You mean the young players that phil refuse to extend, and have no interest in keeping..yeah play them. Oh wait, you can't evaluate them either because of their wildly inconsistent minutes that they get. Coles, Wear, thj, are bench players, that already been establish.
Devolping talent is teaching them how to win, not tank
Even if they aren't in future plans
You play them in a potential opportunity to trade and get value back
It might work with Larkin but who knows
F500, you know the offfers for Tyson last winter?
In hindsight we could do better, because He is playing well in a defined role on a pretty good playoff team?
Your like "Capt' Obvious" with all the anwsers but you really don't know what PHil is thinking, what the plan is going forward.
4-16 is awful and your all angry. Some of us are not suprised or upset. I see the team actually improving on the court. I see Stat doing very well. Last nite THjr and Larken finished nice.
We were in a position to tie it up. Thats not terrible. Loses all count the same but there is progress.
Personally, I hope we continue to play yoot. But its a slow progress.
newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he wasn't trying to win now. It's just wishful thinking that this poor play was planned
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he wasn't trying to win now. It's just wishful thinking that this poor play was planned
Reguardless of the play. Phil so far has not put himself in poor position to improve the team going forward. Phil hasn't made any moves commiting to the success of this current yr. He could have easily made bigger splashes in an attempt to win now.
newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he wasn't trying to win now. It's just wishful thinking that this poor play was planned
Reguardless of the play. Phil so far has not put himself in poor position to improve the team going forward. Phil hasn't made any moves commiting to the success of this current yr. He could have easily made bigger splashes in an attempt to win now.
Could he have? It's not like we have assets to give up. The only thing you could point to is that he hasn't traded away any picks.
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he wasn't trying to win now. It's just wishful thinking that this poor play was planned
Reguardless of the play. Phil so far has not put himself in poor position to improve the team going forward. Phil hasn't made any moves commiting to the success of this current yr. He could have easily made bigger splashes in an attempt to win now.
Could he have? It's not like we have assets to give up. The only thing you could point to is that he hasn't traded away any picks.
You Rang
Phil traded me along with 2 picks to Philly
Phil traded me to Sacramento and lifted protection on a pick
I don't want to hang up but maybe I should
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:None of the above.Okafor and Townes.
I don't get it. Are you saying the team is trying to lose? That's certainly not the case.
would you say this team has been coached with the goal of winning as many games as possible early on?
Yes, I can't see why else Melo would be playing upper 30s MPG (not counting the game he left early) and not getting any real time to recover from injuries. When you have a bunch of D league players, of course all the rotation changes will look bad. I think you're just trying to put a positive spin on a nightmare roster.
Doesn't matter if they are trying to lose on purpose or not. They aren't good enough to win consistently.
You would be the first person to be upset that the Knicks are stuck in mediocrity winning enough games to make the playoffs but not enough playoff games to contend. So here we are actually sucking really bad with our lotto pick in hand, regardless if on purpose or not. And you seem more driven to write Tyson Chandler secret love notes.
Unless Phil Jackson makes short sighted season saving type trade that ruins our chances at a high lotto pick or gives up future assets. Then dropping down from 450 to 250 is the best case scenario for the long term regardless if its on purpose or not.
That's not remotely true. I've been saying I'd like to have explored trading Tyson in a worthwhile deal before the deadline. A top pick with bad decision-makers is a good way to stay stuck in mediocrity actually.
This is true. But its way to early to know if Phil is a bad desicion maker as we could be in a way worse position then we are now making moves trying to win immediately. U said Phil has done the worst job u have seen or something like that dropping the team from 450 to 250. This would only make sense if all Phil's moves have been based on winning right now.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he wasn't trying to win now. It's just wishful thinking that this poor play was planned
Reguardless of the play. Phil so far has not put himself in poor position to improve the team going forward. Phil hasn't made any moves commiting to the success of this current yr. He could have easily made bigger splashes in an attempt to win now.
Could he have? It's not like we have assets to give up. The only thing you could point to is that he hasn't traded away any picks.
He could have went hard after Greg Monroe in the offseason with a s&t dangling any package of Hardaway jr, 2018 first round pick, Shumpert and Bargs expiring. Then outbid Kings using mid level exception for Darren Collison's services.
Bonn, I'm sorry but you're not going to get people to miss Tyson.
I don't care if they miss him. I just wanted to either keep him or get good value for him.
Bonn just wanted to see him play
1 last season so he could prepare to
Say goodbye on his terms
We took that opportunity away from him
I guess we all have our trinkets
If we go 4-78, we'll have to rename this thread:
What's the main reason the Knicks have gone from .450 to .045?
