Now lets not BS -- Phil Jackson did not come in and try to clean house to tank--he was trying to win. There is absolutely NO WAY this club is 5-25 with Tyson Chandler. IMHO Phil believed with the addition of Calderon--we would be the 54 win team we were just 2 years ago. He believed dalembart would give a close replica of what Tyson could do that Brgnani would thrive here(and we wont know that 1) that Smith would do well--he spent 3mm+ on him--additional size new PG--check. Nope not even close but its ok. Other than the 4mm for 2015 that we paid overage from Felton to Calderon--we have a perfect set up to really change the club in 2015. This is what writers were calling for--and the club is in position to do this. Playing to win 8 games in a row will not help FA will not help drafting will not help us get into any playoffs the season is done. The writers need to embrace failure for the benefit of gain--its like they dont understand the sport they cover. Right now losing is winning and we have the 2nd best record in the league. Every loss is important and I dont care if its by 30 or 3. The beat writers need to give up the blame game and accept that we could get the best player weve had here in 20 years--were in position to get that from the draft AND we can get a really really good player in FA. Now its up to Phil to sell whatever he can at the deadline--I think we do have some vet assets--not much but some. When I see a tanking move a cut the ties move where a Dalembart is moved for 2nd rounders and Carmelo is finally forced into prolonged down time--Ill know we ve set the 2nd leg in motion here and the writers should pay attention to this--not who scored 30 on us.
Well said!
I agree with most of it except "humble opinion" part. We who start a thread for each synapse wished to share is not humble but self promoting the importance of the opinion above all.
Very UnZen!
I dont care if its intentional tanking or not just get okafor and i will be happy
I don't know if he thought they would win 54 games but he probably thought they would win more then the 37 last yr and sneak into the playoffs as an 7th-8th seed.
I have been thinking the same thing about the media coverage all season. But I don't think they can go that route as they would have nothing to really talk about. They aren't going to talk about college prospects and potential free agents all season. They are going to look for dirt within the organization, sound bites of frustration, team turmoil, and all the things that losing brings.
Then when the season is over they will go heavy into the draft and free agency because that would be the only topics to really cover.
I think the general consensus before the season started is the Knicks would have a good 14/15 campaign and perhaps make the 2nd round.
This season is a blessing in disguise if we can get a top pick, keep Carmelo, retool with some short term assets and gobble up a top free agent in each of the next two seasons. With what we keep from this group and what we add in the draft and free agency we should be in great shape long term.
Any public ridicule or antagonistic response and calling for coach firings in newspaper articles is counter-productive to the Knicks' long term health as an organization. We don't hear crap about this when other teams tank or the 76ers who are in perpetual tank and collect luxury tax from other teams mode. Briggs is completely spot on calling out these idiots.
Furthermore, it is completely moronic for the Knicks to allow Carmelo to make any decision about his long term health, especially when he is risking it for the counter-productive short term benefit of winning a few more games in an already lost season. Shut Carmelo down for the season and rest his back, knees and anything else that could be bothering him.
Only ones who stand to lose by the Knicks losing are players like Amare who want another pay day, but I could care less about the personal financial gain of players that will no longer be on the team next year.
BRIGGS wrote:Now lets not BS -- Phil Jackson did not come in and try to clean house to tank--he was trying to win. There is absolutely NO WAY this club is 5-25 with Tyson Chandler. IMHO Phil believed with the addition of Calderon--we would be the 54 win team we were just 2 years ago. He believed dalembart would give a close replica of what Tyson could do that Brgnani would thrive here(and we wont know that 1) that Smith would do well--he spent 3mm+ on him--additional size new PG--check. Nope not even close but its ok. Other than the 4mm for 2015 that we paid overage from Felton to Calderon--we have a perfect set up to really change the club in 2015. This is what writers were calling for--and the club is in position to do this. Playing to win 8 games in a row will not help FA will not help drafting will not help us get into any playoffs the season is done. The writers need to embrace failure for the benefit of gain--its like they dont understand the sport they cover. Right now losing is winning and we have the 2nd best record in the league. Every loss is important and I dont care if its by 30 or 3. The beat writers need to give up the blame game and accept that we could get the best player weve had here in 20 years--were in position to get that from the draft AND we can get a really really good player in FA. Now its up to Phil to sell whatever he can at the deadline--I think we do have some vet assets--not much but some. When I see a tanking move a cut the ties move where a Dalembart is moved for 2nd rounders and Carmelo is finally forced into prolonged down time--Ill know we ve set the 2nd leg in motion here and the writers should pay attention to this--not who scored 30 on us.
I agree- his original plan was fine, but it just didn't work out. That happens. In the past we always went wrong because we had no plan B, and we had no patience to ride out the storm either- instead we panicked and tried to find a quick fix, which in turn made stuff worse.
Honestly, tune out the NYDN they have some sort of Dolan-Phil agenda- they have been blasting Phil literally from day one, with mostly made up crap (Isola kept blasting him for secrecy, not talking to the media etc etc and every time Phil proved him wrong). Now the NY Daily news's line is that Phil is to blame for this disaster because he brought 9 of the players here. What they don't say is that when you're capped out, have no draft picks and only 1 year of the MMLE, your options for players are greatly limited. They've got some behind the scenes stuff going on with their owner and Dolan, and as a result are just pumping out garbage.
Ah, here's the article form a year or two ago about the NY Daily News agenda:
Cablevision and Madison Square Garden have ripped the Daily News and publisher Mort Zuckerman, claiming the paper is engaging in a campaign of “extortion ” to force a merger between the News and Cablevision-owned Newsday.“Mr. Zuckerman is engaging in a campaign of intimidation and extortion to effect a merger between Newsday and the Daily News,” according to a statement from Cablevision and MSG.
The latest uproar was triggered by a front page story titled “Ticket to Hide,” in which the News claims that the MSG-owned Knicks deliberately hid news of the severity of Jeremy Lin’s knee injury until after the deadline had passed for season ticket holders to purchase playoff tickets.
The Knicks guard who inspired “Linsanity” has a torn meniscus in his left knee and will be out for an extended period of time.
“Today’s story in the New York Daily News is just another in a long list of articles and cover stories designed to provoke Cablevision and the Madison Square Garden Co.,” the companies said in a statement.
Cablevision and MSG are controlled by the family of James Dolan, who serves as the president of Cablevision and executive chairman of MSG.
The companies said that as recently as March 6, at a lunch meeting at the Four Seasons, “Mr. Zuckerman once again made his proposal, this time adding that ‘the bad press would end if we became joint owners’ (a direct quote).”
http://nypost.com/2012/04/02/dolan-calls...
Never thought the papers or media really cared for the fans. They are in it for turmoil and like to cause it so they have things to write about. When a team is losing only thing they can write about is the blame game plan be damned.
The Knicks stink.......which is a reflection of the coaching staff, the players, and the front office. Had phill hired a more proven coach instead of a dude who just retired from playing, the outcome might have been different. I hope we lose all of the remaining games. Phil has disrespected the coaching gods by hiring a dude whom has not paid his dues. Thus, he must pay for his mistakes.
BRIGGS wrote:Now lets not BS -- Phil Jackson did not come in and try to clean house to tank--he was trying to win. There is absolutely NO WAY this club is 5-25 with Tyson Chandler. IMHO Phil believed with the addition of Calderon--we would be the 54 win team we were just 2 years ago. He believed dalembart would give a close replica of what Tyson could do that Brgnani would thrive here(and we wont know that 1) that Smith would do well--he spent 3mm+ on him--additional size new PG--check. Nope not even close but its ok. Other than the 4mm for 2015 that we paid overage from Felton to Calderon--we have a perfect set up to really change the club in 2015. This is what writers were calling for--and the club is in position to do this. Playing to win 8 games in a row will not help FA will not help drafting will not help us get into any playoffs the season is done. The writers need to embrace failure for the benefit of gain--its like they dont understand the sport they cover. Right now losing is winning and we have the 2nd best record in the league. Every loss is important and I dont care if its by 30 or 3. The beat writers need to give up the blame game and accept that we could get the best player weve had here in 20 years--were in position to get that from the draft AND we can get a really really good player in FA. Now its up to Phil to sell whatever he can at the deadline--I think we do have some vet assets--not much but some. When I see a tanking move a cut the ties move where a Dalembart is moved for 2nd rounders and Carmelo is finally forced into prolonged down time--Ill know we ve set the 2nd leg in motion here and the writers should pay attention to this--not who scored 30 on us.
Lupica is a smart dude and actually does know what is happening...What he realizes is that Phil and Fisher isn't trying to tank and that these losses are a real effort of trying to get wins..That is what is scary...
="Knicks1969"]
The Knicks stink.......which is a reflection of the coaching staff, the players, and the front office. Had phill hired a more proven coach instead of a dude who just retired from playing, the outcome might have been different. I hope we lose all of the remaining games. Phil has disrespected the coaching gods by hiring a dude whom has not paid his dues. Thus, he must pay for his mistakes.
[/quote]
Once upon a time all coaches are rookies. It doesn't matter if Phil thought wed be good or not, that's over.Now as president he needs to be judged with what's in front of him. Patience through this season is required. Shut down melo and sell what u can.
This has a bigger implication than just this year..I have been shouting this from the get go and been called a hater for saying it...
holfresh wrote:This has a bigger implication than just this year..I have been shouting this from the get go and been called a hater for saying it...
First sign of concern was committing to giving a deal
To a crack head before the season ended
I guess the Hocus Pocus isn't what it's cracked[pun intended] up to be
As Odom's Dust>Phil's Pixie Stick Dust
The truly disturbing thing fans aren't even getting high off of Phil's Baking Soda
Instead they are passing out over the transactions Phil is making for 30-40% fake product
I'm not in love with Phil's Co-Co who doesn't have the ability to get it for the Low-Low
Even if the Tyson-Calderon deal has not panned out today. If in 3 yrs Early and Thanasis are good players for the Knicks. Then it can turn into a solid deal. To bad Early got injured as this would be the perfect time to give him big mins.
newyorknewyork wrote:Even if the Tyson-Calderon deal has not panned out today. If in 3 yrs Early and Thanasis are good players for the Knicks. Then it can turn into a solid deal. To bad Early got injured as this would be the perfect time to give him big mins.
Which could be true but how much
Better will they be in the expired span of time
In comparison to other teams who've added similar prospects
All things are across the league are not static compared to Knicks while we go dynamic
newyorknewyork wrote:Even if the Tyson-Calderon deal has not panned out today. If in 3 yrs Early and Thanasis are good players for the Knicks. Then it can turn into a solid deal. To bad Early got injured as this would be the perfect time to give him big mins.
Yeah and the Knicks would have moved Tyson or let him expire. I don't think he has his renaissance in NY either if he wasn't moved. Also, Ellington was moved to get Acy.
The bigger mistake in my opinion was the hiring of a dude who has never coached to lead a team like the Knicks. It is one thing to be a debutant in Milwaukee then NY city. That said, what is done is done. Phil needs to bring in guys who will fit the system he is trying to run. Not Dalembert, Amare, Bargnani, JR, or even Carmelo. We need guys who are willing to pass the ball. Since he already invested big money in Carmelo, his next move is to surround him with shooters/defenders/rebounders
holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Now lets not BS -- Phil Jackson did not come in and try to clean house to tank--he was trying to win. There is absolutely NO WAY this club is 5-25 with Tyson Chandler. IMHO Phil believed with the addition of Calderon--we would be the 54 win team we were just 2 years ago. He believed dalembart would give a close replica of what Tyson could do that Bargnani would thrive here(and we wont know that 1) that Smith would do well--he spent 3mm+ on him--additional size new PG--check. Nope not even close but its ok. Other than the 4mm for 2015 that we paid overage from Felton to Calderon--we have a perfect set up to really change the club in 2015. This is what writers were calling for--and the club is in position to do this. Playing to win 8 games in a row will not help FA will not help drafting will not help us get into any playoffs the season is done. The writers need to embrace failure for the benefit of gain--its like they dont understand the sport they cover. Right now losing is winning and we have the 2nd best record in the league. Every loss is important and I dont care if its by 30 or 3. The beat writers need to give up the blame game and accept that we could get the best player weve had here in 20 years--were in position to get that from the draft AND we can get a really really good player in FA. Now its up to Phil to sell whatever he can at the deadline--I think we do have some vet assets--not much but some. When I see a tanking move a cut the ties move where a Dalembart is moved for 2nd rounders and Carmelo is finally forced into prolonged down time--Ill know we ve set the 2nd leg in motion here and the writers should pay attention to this--not who scored 30 on us.
Lupica is a smart dude and actually does know what is happening...What he realizes is that Phil and Fisher isn't trying to tank and that these losses are a real effort of trying to get wins..That is what is scary...
I have been a fan of Lupica for years all the way up until they fired Mike Woodson. He still invokes Woodson's name on his show, he props up Woodson for that 54 win season but won't give him any responsibility for the one after, laying it just on the players. He is constantly saying if Mike Woodson performed like Fisher is people would be crying for his firing (news flash Mike, he did, they did, he was) failing to mention Woodson had no offensive philosophy, was the ONLY coach in the league who demanded guys switch on the PnR constantly, and wasnt able to develop any of the minimal young talent we had (Shump should be so much better). I listen to him in podcast form and the minute he mentions Woodson's name, I'm out and stop listening.
F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Even if the Tyson-Calderon deal has not panned out today. If in 3 yrs Early and Thanasis are good players for the Knicks. Then it can turn into a solid deal. To bad Early got injured as this would be the perfect time to give him big mins.
Which could be true but how much
Better will they be in the expired span of time
In comparison to other teams who've added similar prospects
All things are across the league are not static compared to Knicks while we go dynamic
Maybe half of all the similar added prospect around the league will pan out. And nobody know at this point which prospect they will be. Which is why the only concern for us is that our own 2 prospects added this offseason end up in that half of prospects that panned out.
joec32033 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Now lets not BS -- Phil Jackson did not come in and try to clean house to tank--he was trying to win. There is absolutely NO WAY this club is 5-25 with Tyson Chandler. IMHO Phil believed with the addition of Calderon--we would be the 54 win team we were just 2 years ago. He believed dalembart would give a close replica of what Tyson could do that Bargnani would thrive here(and we wont know that 1) that Smith would do well--he spent 3mm+ on him--additional size new PG--check. Nope not even close but its ok. Other than the 4mm for 2015 that we paid overage from Felton to Calderon--we have a perfect set up to really change the club in 2015. This is what writers were calling for--and the club is in position to do this. Playing to win 8 games in a row will not help FA will not help drafting will not help us get into any playoffs the season is done. The writers need to embrace failure for the benefit of gain--its like they dont understand the sport they cover. Right now losing is winning and we have the 2nd best record in the league. Every loss is important and I dont care if its by 30 or 3. The beat writers need to give up the blame game and accept that we could get the best player weve had here in 20 years--were in position to get that from the draft AND we can get a really really good player in FA. Now its up to Phil to sell whatever he can at the deadline--I think we do have some vet assets--not much but some. When I see a tanking move a cut the ties move where a Dalembart is moved for 2nd rounders and Carmelo is finally forced into prolonged down time--Ill know we ve set the 2nd leg in motion here and the writers should pay attention to this--not who scored 30 on us.
Lupica is a smart dude and actually does know what is happening...What he realizes is that Phil and Fisher isn't trying to tank and that these losses are a real effort of trying to get wins..That is what is scary...
I have been a fan of Lupica for years all the way up until they fired Mike Woodson. He still invokes Woodson's name on his show, he props up Woodson for that 54 win season but won't give him any responsibility for the one after, laying it just on the players. He is constantly saying if Mike Woodson performed like Fisher is people would be crying for his firing (news flash Mike, he did, they did, he was) failing to mention Woodson had no offensive philosophy, was the ONLY coach in the league who demanded guys switch on the PnR constantly, and wasnt able to develop any of the minimal young talent we had (Shump should be so much better). I listen to him in podcast form and the minute he mentions Woodson's name, I'm out and stop listening.
Well you might not like Woodson but he was the most successful coach here in the last decade...Includes LB,Wilkins,
and Fisher..
OK Phil tried with a bunch of low end players and it didn't work as he expected. BIG WHUP! He also said that he wanted to protect the teams future, which is still in good cap shape and he's been working in some young prospects to develop as well. No matter what happened this year we still would be looking to make major changes and set the franchise on it's future course. The roster was going to change regardless of whether the team played well enough to get into the playoffs of fell apart like this. This wasn't the roster to go to war with. It was just a transitional roster. Fish can gain experience and make mistakes with very little pressure this year.
As Briggs mentioned we have nothing but good options this summer with the draft and FA. Not to mention we have no idea if Phil might add more assets or clear more cap with a trade. You would think the media would also make it clear what the teams future prospects look like.
