Knicks · Would you as a Knick fan take Andera Bargnani back on a 1 year 4mm deal? (page 2)
yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.
LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
he did that as the #1 option in tor. will he get enough mins to do that in ny? will he play enough games for it to matter? is he motivated to play well as a role player #3 or less option?
BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
People want to resign Bargs like they wanted to resign Amare. It seems like the willing suspension of disbelief curses some Knicks fans. There's this weird logic that players that you should already know are just not good basketball players will somehow become good basketball players if you just "give them another chance". It is so bizarre. How many chances did Amare need to show he could play defense or even try? Give him a new contact! How many seasons does one need to see Bargnani to know he is always injured, is stupid as a doorknob and that Clyde can't pronounce his name? Give him a new contract! Some people never learn.
smackeddog wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.Actually Jason Smith has played quite well since the Shump and JR trade- certainly value at 1 year, $3mil. Don't want him back though!
He has got better offensively but his defense is still poor and his rebounding sucks.
nyk4ever wrote:the problem with bargs is that he only seems to play well when he's the focal point of the offense. he's thriving right now and looking great, but once melo is back and we sign a bunch of FAs, i think he would go back to be 3rd and 4th option and i'm not so sure he does enough when he's not scoring to warrant another contract from us.briggs, youre never stupid though, as ned said.. you think outside of the box and that's a good thing.. can't hit a hr with them all lol.
Very true....and that was also the case for Linsanity.....and that's the case for most of the jokers we had or have on the team. Phil is the best at finding system guys.
With all of that said, I don't think we are in a position right now or during Melo's contract time, to keep throwing away talent, just because of their past.
Bargs is far from the old school knicks....he's an MDA guy, that stretch 4 the NBA is trying to go towards, which opens the door for other internationals to follow, while pushing all the great college seniors out the draft.....But that's for another thread.
Again, we are the worst team in the NBA, and maybe in NBA history.....Sorry, but we have no grounds to be picky right now.....But we have to be smart. Bargs on a cheap contract for one year doesn't hurt anybody. Melo on a max untradeable contract hurts more than Bargs cheap 1 year contract. So this is an easy decision for me.....And this is coming from an old school 90's knicks / Starks and Oakley rugged knicks fan. When your center was a big bruiser on defense, with a solid game on offense....and does the dirty work.
But unfortunately, we have too many holes to fill, to start getting picky now. Use him to fill a hole, but have a friendly contract that can be released at any time......Nothing wrong with that....Move on to bigger problems, like finding a PG and Center in your starting lineup. Then we can get picky about who's going to be the 12th man!
Splat wrote:H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
People want to resign Bargs like they wanted to resign Amare. It seems like the willing suspension of disbelief curses some Knicks fans. There's this weird logic that players that you should already know are just not good basketball players will somehow become good basketball players if you just "give them another chance". It is so bizarre. How many chances did Amare need to show he could play defense or even try? Give him a new contact! How many seasons does one need to see Bargnani to know he is always injured, is stupid as a doorknob and that Clyde can't pronounce his name? Give him a new contract! Some people never learn.
We have no bigs signed next year. Im of the opinion we give Mo Williams a 1 fairly fat year contact(1 year 6.75mm)and spend another 5.25 mm on additional one year contracts(12mm in all on ending on year rentals). That would leave us the next year with a near maximum contract in cap space in a year with no pick. If we stink--we also have two smaller ending contracts we might be able to fetch a decent draft load with. Thats the logic on a on a year deal--it gives you flexibility and other possibilities. I dont see us spending more than 18mm in longer term contracts--I mean we could but it wouldnt be smart.
I think some are looking at it rough the lens of Brags making 10-11mm vs. 4mm. Im not sitting here and saying bargs is all that--hes got his flaws. But he's just a piece of a much larger pie. You bring back Anthony--you bring in a true NBA starting PG--not some 3rd stringer--some other players that are cost efficient with upside--you add a quality draft--and we make oursleves much deeper with much more proven talent. A big problem with the Knicks is we got holes EVERYWHERE. Bargs is merely 1 plug who can be cast off at anytime for a nominal price.
Lets imagine this scenario. We pay BIG money to Wes Matthews 12-13mm our new stud SG and in game 3 his Achilles ruptures. Now you have a 30 year old player taking up a huge amount of cap with an injury that might never heal. There is NO player in free agency that we can GET worth more than 7mm UNLESS we overpay someone like Middleton and give him 15mm which has its own risks since hes not there yet. We are better off piece mealing it until the day we find a player who is that good to spend the big pie on.
BRIGGS wrote:Splat wrote:H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
People want to resign Bargs like they wanted to resign Amare. It seems like the willing suspension of disbelief curses some Knicks fans. There's this weird logic that players that you should already know are just not good basketball players will somehow become good basketball players if you just "give them another chance". It is so bizarre. How many chances did Amare need to show he could play defense or even try? Give him a new contact! How many seasons does one need to see Bargnani to know he is always injured, is stupid as a doorknob and that Clyde can't pronounce his name? Give him a new contract! Some people never learn.
We have no bigs signed next year. Im of the opinion we give Mo Williams a 1 fairly fat year contact(1 year 6.75mm)and spend another 5.25 mm on additional one year contracts(12mm in all on ending on year rentals). That would leave us the next year with a near maximum contract in cap space in a year with no pick. If we stink--we also have two smaller ending contracts we might be able to fetch a decent draft load with. Thats the logic on a on a year deal--it gives you flexibility and other possibilities. I dont see us spending more than 18mm in longer term contracts--I mean we could but it wouldnt be smart.
I think some are looking at it rough the lens of Brags making 10-11mm vs. 4mm. Im not sitting here and saying bargs is all that--hes got his flaws. But he's just a piece of a much larger pie. You bring back Anthony--you bring in a true NBA starting PG--not some 3rd stringer--some other players that are cost efficient with upside--you add a quality draft--and we make oursleves much deeper with much more proven talent. A big problem with the Knicks is we got holes EVERYWHERE. Bargs is merely 1 plug who can be cast off at anytime for a nominal price.Lets imagine this scenario. We pay BIG money to Wes Matthews 12-13mm our new stud SG and in game 3 his Achilles ruptures. Now you have a 30 year old player taking up a huge amount of cap with an injury that might never heal. There is NO player in free agency that we can GET worth more than 7mm UNLESS we overpay someone like Middleton and give him 15mm which has its own risks since hes not there yet. We are better off piece mealing it until the day we find a player who is that good to spend the big pie on.
And I shall reiterate: signing Bargs makes about as much sense as signing Amare. Both will end on the injured reserve list and there will never be continuity with players like that you can never rely on.
Further, this idea that such players are good gambles as one year rentals presupposes that is what they will sign.
The only reason this is even a topic is because more fans are probably smelling the coffee and they now realize the Knicks have little leverage aside from money when it comes to free agents and the pickings will be real slim. Enter Bargs, the poor man's gap year signing.
Face it, next year has a pretty low chance of being a playoff team, but if it is there will be no contention. Either way you slice it, this organization should not be renting players it does not appreciate for their game. If Phil likes Bargs game, then go figure. I sure as hell don't know why he is still on the squad other than he is auditioning for a job and Phil is on the fence.
And that tells me Phil is soft in the head. No offense intended, but I really cannot understand how you or anyone else would ever want this dumb guy on their team. Bargs is a loser.
So is this what it has come to? A game of Rent-A-Loser?
Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.
Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.
Splat wrote:Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.
I always thought he was a severely unbalanced player even when on the Raptors. He has some gaping holes in his game. He's really good in some other areas, but never should've been a #1 pick. On the right team, they could hide some of his deficiencies. I hope he finds a spot that supports his deficiencies better. It shouldn't be as a starter anywhere.
BRIGGS wrote:Splat wrote:H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
People want to resign Bargs like they wanted to resign Amare. It seems like the willing suspension of disbelief curses some Knicks fans. There's this weird logic that players that you should already know are just not good basketball players will somehow become good basketball players if you just "give them another chance". It is so bizarre. How many chances did Amare need to show he could play defense or even try? Give him a new contact! How many seasons does one need to see Bargnani to know he is always injured, is stupid as a doorknob and that Clyde can't pronounce his name? Give him a new contract! Some people never learn.
We have no bigs signed next year. Im of the opinion we give Mo Williams a 1 fairly fat year contact(1 year 6.75mm)and spend another 5.25 mm on additional one year contracts(12mm in all on ending on year rentals). That would leave us the next year with a near maximum contract in cap space in a year with no pick. If we stink--we also have two smaller ending contracts we might be able to fetch a decent draft load with. Thats the logic on a on a year deal--it gives you flexibility and other possibilities. I dont see us spending more than 18mm in longer term contracts--I mean we could but it wouldnt be smart.
I think some are looking at it rough the lens of Brags making 10-11mm vs. 4mm. Im not sitting here and saying bargs is all that--hes got his flaws. But he's just a piece of a much larger pie. You bring back Anthony--you bring in a true NBA starting PG--not some 3rd stringer--some other players that are cost efficient with upside--you add a quality draft--and we make oursleves much deeper with much more proven talent. A big problem with the Knicks is we got holes EVERYWHERE. Bargs is merely 1 plug who can be cast off at anytime for a nominal price.Lets imagine this scenario. We pay BIG money to Wes Matthews 12-13mm our new stud SG and in game 3 his Achilles ruptures. Now you have a 30 year old player taking up a huge amount of cap with an injury that might never heal. There is NO player in free agency that we can GET worth more than 7mm UNLESS we overpay someone like Middleton and give him 15mm which has its own risks since hes not there yet. We are better off piece mealing it until the day we find a player who is that good to spend the big pie on.
Matthews turned 28 a month or two ago...
Solace wrote:Splat wrote:Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.
I always thought he was a severely unbalanced player even when on the Raptors. He has some gaping holes in his game. He's really good in some other areas, but never should've been a #1 pick. On the right team, they could hide some of his deficiencies. I hope he finds a spot that supports his deficiencies better. It shouldn't be as a starter anywhere.
Is it worth the discussion to talk about the 10th man on your roster? Thats his roll on this team next year, or whenever we provide a decent roster. Anybody that can score 20pts in this league, has value. Not sure why you want to throw money away, when we have a cap system.
That's like taking money out of your pocket and throwing it in the trash, just because that money came from a bad time in history. Regardless of how you got that asset or how the asset value has declined, you still want to make business decisions and not emotional reactions. But no need to go back and forth because neither of us are GM's and we will only agree to disagree at this point. I probably hate bargs more than anybody on this board, but I'm not going to make emotional decisions as a GM. But maybe 10 years ago, I would've because I wasn't as mature as I am now....So I understand all these emotional threads, it's just knick fans crying for help.....I get it. It comes with the 40 yr history of losing! I get it. But I don't have to agree with it.
blkexec wrote:Solace wrote:Splat wrote:Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.
I always thought he was a severely unbalanced player even when on the Raptors. He has some gaping holes in his game. He's really good in some other areas, but never should've been a #1 pick. On the right team, they could hide some of his deficiencies. I hope he finds a spot that supports his deficiencies better. It shouldn't be as a starter anywhere.
Is it worth the discussion to talk about the 10th man on your roster? Thats his roll on this team next year, or whenever we provide a decent roster. Anybody that can score 20pts in this league, has value. Not sure why you want to throw money away, when we have a cap system.
That's like taking money out of your pocket and throwing it in the trash, just because that money came from a bad time in history. Regardless of how you got that asset or how the asset value has declined, you still want to make business decisions and not emotional reactions. But no need to go back and forth because neither of us are GM's and we will only agree to disagree at this point. I probably hate bargs more than anybody on this board, but I'm not going to make emotional decisions as a GM. But maybe 10 years ago, I would've because I wasn't as mature as I am now....So I understand all these emotional threads, it's just knick fans crying for help.....I get it. It comes with the 40 yr history of losing! I get it. But I don't have to agree with it.
I'm saying I don't want him on this team as it's currently constructed. If the Knicks had a solid core and Andrea Bargnani was available for an MLE, I would consider it if he were the best option. But it's not the case, so pass. :)
H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Splat wrote:H1AND1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)
In 9 seasons Bargs has averaged 20 points or more exactly once. His career average is 15 points per game. So you can definitely say that Bargs is "a player on this earth who averaged 20 points in the NBA once in a 9 year career" but characterizing him as a guy who can throw up 20PPG whenever he feels like it is wrong.
I hate Bargs. He soft as Charmin. Is 7 feet tall and rebounds like a 6 foot PG, is mostly awful on D and is an inefficient shooter from everywhere except midrange. Why pay this guy millions when we can get a player who can do 90% of what Bargs does for the vet min.
I forgot to mention Bargs has been injury plagued for what? 5-6 years now? Where are the indications that he is going to be healthy from here on out?
I cant stand the guy and want him gone. He's garbage.
People want to resign Bargs like they wanted to resign Amare. It seems like the willing suspension of disbelief curses some Knicks fans. There's this weird logic that players that you should already know are just not good basketball players will somehow become good basketball players if you just "give them another chance". It is so bizarre. How many chances did Amare need to show he could play defense or even try? Give him a new contact! How many seasons does one need to see Bargnani to know he is always injured, is stupid as a doorknob and that Clyde can't pronounce his name? Give him a new contract! Some people never learn.
We have no bigs signed next year. Im of the opinion we give Mo Williams a 1 fairly fat year contact(1 year 6.75mm)and spend another 5.25 mm on additional one year contracts(12mm in all on ending on year rentals). That would leave us the next year with a near maximum contract in cap space in a year with no pick. If we stink--we also have two smaller ending contracts we might be able to fetch a decent draft load with. Thats the logic on a on a year deal--it gives you flexibility and other possibilities. I dont see us spending more than 18mm in longer term contracts--I mean we could but it wouldnt be smart.
I think some are looking at it rough the lens of Brags making 10-11mm vs. 4mm. Im not sitting here and saying bargs is all that--hes got his flaws. But he's just a piece of a much larger pie. You bring back Anthony--you bring in a true NBA starting PG--not some 3rd stringer--some other players that are cost efficient with upside--you add a quality draft--and we make oursleves much deeper with much more proven talent. A big problem with the Knicks is we got holes EVERYWHERE. Bargs is merely 1 plug who can be cast off at anytime for a nominal price.Lets imagine this scenario. We pay BIG money to Wes Matthews 12-13mm our new stud SG and in game 3 his Achilles ruptures. Now you have a 30 year old player taking up a huge amount of cap with an injury that might never heal. There is NO player in free agency that we can GET worth more than 7mm UNLESS we overpay someone like Middleton and give him 15mm which has its own risks since hes not there yet. We are better off piece mealing it until the day we find a player who is that good to spend the big pie on.
Matthews turned 28 a month or two ago...
Who cares now?
He is tanking accessory.
Any team with desire to lose more should sign him for 4 millions and a big bag of chips.
If we want to continue losing he must stay!!!
Solace wrote:Splat wrote:Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.
I always thought he was a severely unbalanced player even when on the Raptors. He has some gaping holes in his game. He's really good in some other areas, but never should've been a #1 pick. On the right team, they could hide some of his deficiencies. I hope he finds a spot that supports his deficiencies better. It shouldn't be as a starter anywhere.
Even so, those things that he is good at, he is inconsistent. What I found really strange about him in his first season as a Knick was he almost always played better in the first half and then would often simply vanish after halftime. It was magical how often it happened. The guy simply is not reliable at all. He is the very definition of a net negative player or at very least net neutral. Amare was a net negative to net negative player most nights too. These guys are not starters. They are merely players you could gamble on being bench fodder which enables a coach to yank them when they don't produce or play some frigging defense.