Knicks · Would you as a Knick fan take Andera Bargnani back on a 1 year 4mm deal? (page 3)

Solace wrote:

Splat wrote:

Solace wrote:On a championship contender, Bargnani is a solid piece as a 7th, 8th or 9th man, I think. On this team, we have too many holes. He would inevitably be used as a core piece and he has too many holes in his game for that. So, I say no.

Yes, that is another way of stating the case. Retaining Bargs as a starter is not a good rebuilding strategy. As a doorstop on an already developed team he could serve a role delivering bagels to the locker room and giving his teammates shoulder rubs.

I always thought he was a severely unbalanced player even when on the Raptors. He has some gaping holes in his game. He's really good in some other areas, but never should've been a #1 pick. On the right team, they could hide some of his deficiencies. I hope he finds a spot that supports his deficiencies better. It shouldn't be as a starter anywhere.

Even so, those things that he is good at, he is inconsistent. What I found really strange about him in his first season as a Knick was he almost always played better in the first half and then would often simply vanish after halftime. It was magical how often it happened. The guy simply is not reliable at all. He is the very definition of a net negative player or at very least net neutral. Amare was a net negative to net negative player most nights too. These guys are not starters. They are merely players you could gamble on being bench fodder which enables a coach to yank them when they don't produce or play some frigging defense.

Bargs shot 47% from 2pt range last year, despite it not being a good year. As for his fading in 2nd half the Knicks didn't stay with him. He's better when he's involved. They would often ignore him offensively. He needs touches and in this offense he'll get those touches and shots. Any player who gets more efficient the more he shoots is worth involving in your offense.

nixluva wrote:Bargs shot 47% from 2pt range last year, despite it not being a good year. As for his fading in 2nd half the Knicks didn't stay with him. He's better when he's involved. They would often ignore him offensively. He needs touches and in this offense he'll get those touches and shots. Any player who gets more efficient the more he shoots is worth involving in your offense.

Yes, Bargs sucked in the second half because it was a strategic decision by the organization and the coaching staff to keep him on the floor, yet freeze him out of plays after half-time. Solid explanation.

I answered this question " I don't know" well see. My goal is to rebuild with younger players yet stay competitive. I would look at potentially signing bargs for a year as opportunity knowing that bargs is not likely part of a master plan. The ONLY piece to me in place for a master plan is potentially our draft pick. The more I watch frank kaminsky the more I'd love to have him to pair up with a Karl towns. Is this in anyway plausible? Not likely. I might even be willing to trade down to get kaminsky if I drop to 4 with the sixers if they throw me the 10 32 35 and a future 1.Getting back to bargs if I feel bargs can help me for a reasonable price I would look at it given the right situation. Bargs is no trouble maker and his upside is still fine. His play is fine. He needs to learn how to pass a bit more otherwise he's very serviceable. Quite frankly I'm surprised by some of the fans thinking 2 guys like Matthews and Monroe will save this franchise. All they would do is dress it up some but that's not really what I'm looking for long term

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Bargs shot 47% from 2pt range last year, despite it not being a good year. As for his fading in 2nd half the Knicks didn't stay with him. He's better when he's involved. They would often ignore him offensively. He needs touches and in this offense he'll get those touches and shots. Any player who gets more efficient the more he shoots is worth involving in your offense.

Yes, Bargs sucked in the second half because it was a strategic decision by the organization and the coaching staff to keep him on the floor, yet freeze him out of plays after half-time. Solid explanation.

Go look at his FGA's and they were too low. I'm tellin you he wasn't getting the ball and in particular good looks were he could be successful. When he got touches he was productive. It's not like he wasn't efficient from 2pt range which is his sweet spot. He still shot 47% (excuse me it was 48.7%)from 2pt range but wasn't getting enough shots per game from those spots. It's really that simple.

1 year 4mm deal is too much for him.

VCoug wrote:

He's been terrible every year for his entire career including this one. He can't shoot, he has no post game, he can't pass, he can't make quick decisions, he can't rebound, he can't defend. He literally can't make a single positive contribution on the court. He's fucking terrible even on a vet minimum.

Any no to this is pure gut emotion. At $4M, there is not likely to be a better player available in free agency. I would guess someone gives him $8MM. The negative stigma here is that we gave too much and got too little in production for him. But what we gave in trade for him is a sunk cost and cannot be taken into consideration on a future contract. 1 year $4M is a bargain. Sign me up.

nixluva wrote:People seem to really exaggerate when it comes to Bargs. This is only his 2nd season here but you'd think he was here as long as STAT. I see no reason to say no to a one yr contract like that. Jason Smith was also coming off an injury riddled season but actually had surgery. Bargs hasn't had surgery and just seems to need a good off season conditioning program. Bargs has yet to go under the knife but you'd think he's had all this work.

My guess is that he may just be a decent option where there are very few who can produce on this level for cheap. In his career he's shown to be more productive the more you use him. That's not a bad thing if you know that and keep him involved. I think he'd be fine next to a kid like Towns.

There aren't many players who can produce what Bargs produces for cheap? You're joking right? I am horrible at math but Bargs' VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) this year is -.06! That means that the average replacement player is BETTER than Bargs. He doesn't bring anything to the table in fact he takes stuff OFF the table. His VORP has been negative the past 4-5 seasons.

I'm not a math whiz but it doesn't take a genius to see what this number is telling you: The average player you'd feplace Bargs with is better. Literally _any_ player. He is not a good value. He has negative value.

Plus, his attitude sucks. He has no fire. No passion. He is playing for a contract and in general for the money. It takes him forever to rehab injuries because he's probably living it up. The guy is a sap and I want him off the team. I don't care how well he plays in the tail
End of a lost season. He is to me the symbol of all the negative things about the Knicks franchise. Period. Please GTFO Bargs.

TripleThreat wrote:

callmened wrote:Would you as a Knick fan take Andera Bargnani back on a 1 year 4mm deal?

Well it's real simple: You got two more quarters and that's it.

Now most of you have been playin' this game for ten years. And you got two more quarters and after that most of you will never play this game again as long as you live. Now, ya'll have known me for awhile, and for a long time now you've been hearin' me talk about being perfect.

Well I want you to understand somethin'. To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. It's not about winning. It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends.

Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down, because you told them the truth. And that truth is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could've done.

Can you live in that moment, as best you can, with clear eyes and love in your heart? With joy in your heart?

If you can do that gentlemen, then you're perfect.

I want you to take a moment. And I want you to look each other in the eyes. I want you to put each other in your hearts forever, because forever's about to happen here in just a few minutes.

I want you to close your eyes, and I want you to think about Boobie Miles, who is your brother. And he would die to be out there on that field with you tonight. And I want you to put that in your hearts.

Boys, my heart is full. My heart's full.

-Coach Gaines, Friday Night Lights

***

Right now, there is some UDFA, some 2nd rounder, some fringe NBA prospect, who will bleed every last drop of blood he has on the floor to stay on an NBA roster. To get into a rotation. To get a few minutes. Who will give every last bit of himself and offer his body, his soul, his mind, his sanity, to the basketball gods.

Can Bargs say he did everything he could, that there wasn't one more thing he could have done? Can he live with those moments, with clear eyes and love in his heart? With joy in his heart? Was he 'perfect'?

If Bargs gave every last thing he had all he could be is a lousy defender and an iffy midrange shooter with no chops for a three ball and a propensity to get hurt, then so be it. If he gave it his all.

But part of the story here is, at some level, Bargs just doesn't give a flying fuck. And when he does that, he spits in the face of the game, the spirit of competition, this franchise and every single Knicks fan.

When Bargs dogs it and he's surely dogged it a lot here in NY, he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. So don't complicate it, don't let him.

I'd rather have a fringe guy clinging to the edge of the roster but his heart is full. For this team, for his teammates, for playing the game the right way, to honor what a privilege it is to play this game at this level.

Let's all as fans desire the kind of players we can be proud to call Knicks. To play the game the way we believe the game should be played. Giving Bargs more money to pull a rope a dope and go back to not caring after he cashes his checks is just saying spitting in your face as a Knicks fan is absolutely ok.

Bargs heart is not full. So IMHO, it's time for this mother fucker to pack his trash.

Knicks fans get what they deserve.

Here they are talking about settling for the most mediocre, azz-dragging sack of crap player and they wonder why they always get what they asked for: a mediocre, azz-dragging, sack of crap ballclub.

When does the fan base actually grow a spine and stop settling for mediocrity? Probably never.

Everytime bargs is brought up I want to go all Pinky.

Say it Again!

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Jason Smith was a bad move and is not worth 3m. Bargs is barely worth the vet min and that is not an exaggeration.

LOL. Sure a player on this Earth who can avg 20 points in the NBA is a vet min player:)

If you really think he's this good, why a 1 year 4 mil contract? Why not lock him into a long-term contract before the new CBA?

He wears number 77.

No thank you.

EwingsGlass wrote:

VCoug wrote:

He's been terrible every year for his entire career including this one. He can't shoot, he has no post game, he can't pass, he can't make quick decisions, he can't rebound, he can't defend. He literally can't make a single positive contribution on the court. He's fucking terrible even on a vet minimum.

Any no to this is pure gut emotion. At $4M, there is not likely to be a better player available in free agency. I would guess someone gives him $8MM. The negative stigma here is that we gave too much and got too little in production for him. But what we gave in trade for him is a sunk cost and cannot be taken into consideration on a future contract. 1 year $4M is a bargain. Sign me up.

Please. This isn't gut emotion at all. Just look at the cold, hard [url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bargnan01.html"]facts[/url]. By any metric you want to use he's been one of the worst players in the league for his entire, 9-year career. WS/48, O-Rating, D-Rating, Box Plus/Minus, WP48, Points over Par, Wins Produced, Real Plus/Minus, or even the fucking eye test all show that he's terrible. He doesn't make a single, positive contribution on the court. His one "skill", shooting long 2s, he's not even good at. For his career he's a 42% shooter outside of 3 feet of the basket and the 3-point line. And he has multiple seasons when he's shot under 40% on long 2s.

VCoug wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

VCoug wrote:

He's been terrible every year for his entire career including this one. He can't shoot, he has no post game, he can't pass, he can't make quick decisions, he can't rebound, he can't defend. He literally can't make a single positive contribution on the court. He's fucking terrible even on a vet minimum.

Any no to this is pure gut emotion. At $4M, there is not likely to be a better player available in free agency. I would guess someone gives him $8MM. The negative stigma here is that we gave too much and got too little in production for him. But what we gave in trade for him is a sunk cost and cannot be taken into consideration on a future contract. 1 year $4M is a bargain. Sign me up.

Please. This isn't gut emotion at all. Just look at the cold, hard [url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bargnan01.html"]facts[/url]. By any metric you want to use he's been one of the worst players in the league for his entire, 9-year career. WS/48, O-Rating, D-Rating, Box Plus/Minus, WP48, Points over Par, Wins Produced, Real Plus/Minus, or even the fucking eye test all show that he's terrible. He doesn't make a single, positive contribution on the court. His one "skill", shooting long 2s, he's not even good at. For his career he's a 42% shooter outside of 3 feet of the basket and the 3-point line. And he has multiple seasons when he's shot under 40% on long 2s.

I'm guessing someone is going to reply to you now and accuse you of being more hysterical than a demon racked nun high on absinthe.

VCoug wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

VCoug wrote:

He's been terrible every year for his entire career including this one. He can't shoot, he has no post game, he can't pass, he can't make quick decisions, he can't rebound, he can't defend. He literally can't make a single positive contribution on the court. He's fucking terrible even on a vet minimum.

Any no to this is pure gut emotion. At $4M, there is not likely to be a better player available in free agency. I would guess someone gives him $8MM. The negative stigma here is that we gave too much and got too little in production for him. But what we gave in trade for him is a sunk cost and cannot be taken into consideration on a future contract. 1 year $4M is a bargain. Sign me up.

Please. This isn't gut emotion at all. Just look at the cold, hard [url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bargnan01.html"]facts[/url]. By any metric you want to use he's been one of the worst players in the league for his entire, 9-year career. WS/48, O-Rating, D-Rating, Box Plus/Minus, WP48, Points over Par, Wins Produced, Real Plus/Minus, or even the fucking eye test all show that he's terrible. He doesn't make a single, positive contribution on the court. His one "skill", shooting long 2s, he's not even good at. For his career he's a 42% shooter outside of 3 feet of the basket and the 3-point line. And he has multiple seasons when he's shot under 40% on long 2s.

exactly. He's not worth the roster spot

="Bonn1997"]

VCoug wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

VCoug wrote:

He's been terrible every year for his entire career including this one. He can't shoot, he has no post game, he can't pass, he can't make quick decisions, he can't rebound, he can't defend. He literally can't make a single positive contribution on the court. He's fucking terrible even on a vet minimum.

Any no to this is pure gut emotion. At $4M, there is not likely to be a better player available in free agency. I would guess someone gives him $8MM. The negative stigma here is that we gave too much and got too little in production for him. But what we gave in trade for him is a sunk cost and cannot be taken into consideration on a future contract. 1 year $4M is a bargain. Sign me up.

Please. This isn't gut emotion at all. Just look at the cold, hard [url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bargnan01.html"]facts[/url]. By any metric you want to use he's been one of the worst players in the league for his entire, 9-year career. WS/48, O-Rating, D-Rating, Box Plus/Minus, WP48, Points over Par, Wins Produced, Real Plus/Minus, or even the fucking eye test all show that he's terrible. He doesn't make a single, positive contribution on the court. His one "skill", shooting long 2s, he's not even good at. For his career he's a 42% shooter outside of 3 feet of the basket and the 3-point line. And he has multiple seasons when he's shot under 40% on long 2s.

exactly. He's not worth the roster spot

All of these comments are based on bargs being some kind of " the man" Think about Bargs as a 23 minute of/c next to Towns. I'd love to get frank kaminsky but we won't have pick 8 . Do I want to pay 14mm a year for Paul Millsap. I can't I have way to many holes.

For the same money it would cost be to get Millsap or Monroe I can have 3 players who's cumulative play would be my h greater than the 1 player. Would I rather have Mo Williams bargs and Carroll or Millsap? Easy answer for this club with 90 holes.

Watch San Antonio will grab bargs for 1 year. Knicks fans are not forward looking they see what is now like they did w Zach Randolph. Sorry bargs value to a team at low 1 year could be highly beneficial. And its its not I have a small ending contract.

Also depending on circumstance I could easily say goodbye to bargs. I need to see the variables. But to say hell no. Makes no sense

BRIGGS wrote:Also depending on circumstance I could easily say goodbye to bargs. I need to see the variables. But to say hell no. Makes no sense

You can't help it, he's your brother from another speller. Briggs has too many letters in common with Bargs for you to let go.

Bargs is the only quality player we have. We can only stay competitive with bargs

BRIGGS wrote:Bargs is the only quality player we have. We can only stay competitive with bargs

We need some continuity. Bargs has been playing well now that he has his legs and rhythm back. He's one of the few knicks that should be brought back.

EnySpree wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Bargs is the only quality player we have. We can only stay competitive with bargs

We need some continuity. Bargs has been playing well now that he has his legs and rhythm back. He's one of the few knicks that should be brought back.

too unreliable. Wouldnt be surprised if he gets injured again before season is done