Knicks · Russell Westbrook - New MVP Front Runner - Are They Better Off Without KD? (page 4)
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.
Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.
On the contrary..I know exactly how he gets his points while you don't...Melo had shot 45% from the two and 40% from the three over 77 games which Harden has never done...U see, a few head jerks in the lane and a couple of flops can go a long way into skewing your stats...
Bonn1997 wrote:You're making this big a fuss that he draws a foul on 1 more possession per game than Melo?!
Oh stop..Harden is a great player..I just like needling you and others about your reliance on these stats..
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You're making this big a fuss that he draws a foul on 1 more possession per game than Melo?!Oh stop..Harden is a great player..I just like needling you and others about your reliance on these stats..
7-0 260 Adams
6-11 260 Pound Kanter
6-10 265 pound Macgray
even without Ibaka and Durant--this frontline is as formidable as almost any in the NBA. The OKC have players that dont play who would be starters with the Knicks. Anyone of their frontline players would be our best player.
In this year alone the Thunder traded for pick #3 and pick #4 of the last few drafts and gave back little.
BRIGGS wrote:Right now the Thunder have7-0 260 Adams
6-11 260 Pound Kanter
6-10 265 pound Macgrayeven without Ibaka and Durant--this frontline is as formidable as almost any in the NBA. The OKC have players that dont play who would be starters with the Knicks. Anyone of their frontline players would be our best player.
In this year alone the Thunder traded for pick #3 and pick #4 of the last few drafts and gave back little.
Yeah but so do many WNBA teams!
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.On the contrary..I know exactly how he gets his points while you don't...Melo had shot 45% from the two and 40% from the three over 77 games which Harden has never done...U see, a few head jerks in the lane and a couple of flops can go a long way into skewing your stats...
the difference between harden and melo is wide in terms of drawing fouls. harden can draw fouls at will, and in the playoffs drawing fouls is the mark of a savvy player who likely spells the difference in playoff games decided by 5 or fewer points. besides, they have tightened up the head-jerk flopping rule, haven't they? perhaps they should call fouls on players who bellow like wounded cows. the list is pretty long.
you may not like that the refs call fouls in harden's favor but the fact of the matter is that harden draws fouls the right way while melo does not.
all that said, the only player that can stop harden is... harden.
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
drawing fouls is an art and when Harden misses a shot, he often goes to the line (22 times last night). When Melo misses his shots, it usually goes the other way.
Getting to the line off missed shots is an art and as valuable as anything in the game, perhaps the most valuable in many ways.
dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.On the contrary..I know exactly how he gets his points while you don't...Melo had shot 45% from the two and 40% from the three over 77 games which Harden has never done...U see, a few head jerks in the lane and a couple of flops can go a long way into skewing your stats...
the difference between harden and melo is wide in terms of drawing fouls. harden can draw fouls at will, and in the playoffs drawing fouls is the mark of a savvy player who likely spells the difference in playoff games decided by 5 or fewer points. besides, they have tightened up the head-jerk flopping rule, haven't they? perhaps they should call fouls on players who bellow like wounded cows. the list is pretty long.
you may not like that the refs call fouls in harden's favor but the fact of the matter is that harden draws fouls the right way while melo does not.
all that said, the only player that can stop harden is... harden.
Well Harden flops and Melo doesn't...He jerks his head in the lane if there is a sense of contact every time...Enough to get you to the line 2 or 3 more times.If it works hey..But your theory that it works in the playoffs hasn't bore true for Harden, has it??
holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.On the contrary..I know exactly how he gets his points while you don't...Melo had shot 45% from the two and 40% from the three over 77 games which Harden has never done...U see, a few head jerks in the lane and a couple of flops can go a long way into skewing your stats...
the difference between harden and melo is wide in terms of drawing fouls. harden can draw fouls at will, and in the playoffs drawing fouls is the mark of a savvy player who likely spells the difference in playoff games decided by 5 or fewer points. besides, they have tightened up the head-jerk flopping rule, haven't they? perhaps they should call fouls on players who bellow like wounded cows. the list is pretty long.
you may not like that the refs call fouls in harden's favor but the fact of the matter is that harden draws fouls the right way while melo does not.
all that said, the only player that can stop harden is... harden.
Well Harden flops and Melo doesn't...He jerks his head in the lane if there is a sense of contact every time...Enough to get you to the line 2 or 3 more times.If it works hey..But your theory that it works in the playoffs hasn't bore true for Harden, has it??
the last 2 years:
11 FTA
8.3 FTA
Working quite well in the playoffs ...
He would get even more FTA if he shoots better this year in the playoffs. Hard to earn FTA's if you are forcing or not hitting enough shots.
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
drawing fouls is an art and when Harden misses a shot, he often goes to the line (22 times last night). When Melo misses his shots, it usually goes the other way.
Getting to the line off missed shots is an art and as valuable as anything in the game, perhaps the most valuable in many ways.
Here is the art:
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
drawing fouls is an art and when Harden misses a shot, he often goes to the line (22 times last night). When Melo misses his shots, it usually goes the other way.
Getting to the line off missed shots is an art and as valuable as anything in the game, perhaps the most valuable in many ways.
Here is the art:
haha ... thats actually quite funny ...
Lebron used this art to flop his way to some rings. Manu is the flop king and he is who Harden learned from. Hey, if it works ...
Also, he does flop and act but he also gets fouled more than anyone with his herky jerkyness.
holfresh wrote:Ladies and Gent's...The great Thespian, James Harden:
Love it!
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Ladies and Gent's...The great Thespian, James Harden:
Love it!
Here is your drawing fouls the right way dk7...
He is a good player no doubt..But don't tell me his TS% is this or that and I know it's because of the above..Come on, man!!!
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Ladies and Gent's...The great Thespian, James Harden:
Love it!
He is a good player no doubt..But don't tell me his TS% is this or that and I know it's because of the above..Come on, man!!!
Who cares if he is flopping or why he is getting his points. You are a smart guy yet you are making this an emotional determination that is illogical.
Is he getting to the line? Yes. WHO CARES WHY?
Shaq got to the line cause he was unfairly bigger than everyone so I don't count those fouls. Can't do that, right?
If he wins a ring (which he won't this year) and he flops his way there like other players, is that not counted and asterisked?
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Ladies and Gent's...The great Thespian, James Harden:
Love it!
He is a good player no doubt..But don't tell me his TS% is this or that and I know it's because of the above..Come on, man!!!
Who cares if he is flopping or why he is getting his points. You are a smart guy yet you are making this an emotional determination that is illogical.
Is he getting to the line? Yes. WHO CARES WHY?
Shaq got to the line cause he was unfairly bigger than everyone so I don't count those fouls. Can't do that, right?
If he wins a ring (which he won't this year) and he flops his way there like other players, is that not counted and asterisked?
I hate all floppers..It takes away from the game..This isn't European Football..I hated Reggie Miller because of flopping..Gallo is a flopper, LeBron is or was a flopper..Manu is a flopper..You and I can look at his stats...They are decent but what puts him over the top is his trips to the ft line because of flopping, he cheats...I can't endorse that...
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Ladies and Gent's...The great Thespian, James Harden:
Love it!
He is a good player no doubt..But don't tell me his TS% is this or that and I know it's because of the above..Come on, man!!!
Who cares if he is flopping or why he is getting his points. You are a smart guy yet you are making this an emotional determination that is illogical.
Is he getting to the line? Yes. WHO CARES WHY?
Shaq got to the line cause he was unfairly bigger than everyone so I don't count those fouls. Can't do that, right?
If he wins a ring (which he won't this year) and he flops his way there like other players, is that not counted and asterisked?
I hate all floppers..It takes away from the game..This isn't European Football..I hated Reggie Miller because of flopping..Gallo is a flopper, LeBron is or was a flopper..Manu is a flopper..You and I can look at his stats...They are decent but what puts him over the top is his trips to the ft line because of flopping, he cheats...I can't endorse that...
I can ... maybe I have no morals. I find flopping really funny and I love how stupid that it makes the refs feel.
Also, with flopping fines, everyone (including Harden) is flopping much less.
There are many things that I hate about players.
I thought Jordan got way too many foul calls that he did not deserve.
Harden flops but if you take that away from him, he is still a great player, just like with all the other players who cheat.
holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:MVP candidate Harden is trailing but tonight:44 points on only 21 SHOTS!!!
4 rebounds
7 assists
It's not 21 shots..Its really 32 shots attempts..They didn't count 11 of them because of fouls..
Are you sure none were 3 point plays or technical fouls?
Regardless, your point is well-taken but Harden still comes out at about 1.4 points per possession using your #s (44 and 32), which is outstanding. No team in the league averages even 1.1 points per possession.Well using my methodology which is much more informative in my humble opinion...He is taking 23 shots to score 27 points per games..shooting 44% from two point land and 37% from three..Also, shooting a fantastic 87% from the free throw line...I'm gathering we are making a prolific free throw artist into an all world player...
Yeah, the 1.4 points per possession was from yesterday's game. Your calculation for the season puts him at close to 1.2, which is still outstanding. It's probably better than any team's scoring in the league's history (and better than Melo has ever had in a season).
You're also almost admitting that traditional box scores stats like points and FGA are not sufficient and more sophisticated (dare I say more advanced?) metrics are needed. All you need to do now is look at the #s on basketball reference - they're doing the work you're trying to do when you combine FTAs and FGAs but they're incorporating other elements of the game too like assists and turnovers.On the contrary..I know exactly how he gets his points while you don't...Melo had shot 45% from the two and 40% from the three over 77 games which Harden has never done...U see, a few head jerks in the lane and a couple of flops can go a long way into skewing your stats...
the difference between harden and melo is wide in terms of drawing fouls. harden can draw fouls at will, and in the playoffs drawing fouls is the mark of a savvy player who likely spells the difference in playoff games decided by 5 or fewer points. besides, they have tightened up the head-jerk flopping rule, haven't they? perhaps they should call fouls on players who bellow like wounded cows. the list is pretty long.
you may not like that the refs call fouls in harden's favor but the fact of the matter is that harden draws fouls the right way while melo does not.
all that said, the only player that can stop harden is... harden.
Well Harden flops and Melo doesn't...He jerks his head in the lane if there is a sense of contact every time...Enough to get you to the line 2 or 3 more times.If it works hey..But your theory that it works in the playoffs hasn't bore true for Harden, has it??
Melo is the only NBA player who doesn't flop, act, or exaggerate contact. His purity is unmatched!