Knicks · Do Not Trade the Pick. (page 3)

Would anyone trade the number 4 pick if it got you Middleton and the 17th pick or just Giannis?

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

codeunknown wrote:I'll trade Carmelo and a 2018 1st round top 5 protected (in perpetuity) pick for the Lakers # 2 pick.

And in line with this improbable but interesting scenario, I draft Russell at 2, Mudiay at 4, sign Aldridge (20), D Jordan (20) and Carroll (10).

Mudiay
Russell
Carroll
Aldridge
Jordan

toronto would be thrilled

No they wouldn't.

would too

1. How many wins does that team get?
2. What current relevance should/does Toronto's pick have on Knick decision making?

a lot of relevance. The knicks can't stink next year and can't go into rebuild mode because that pick is gonna irk many for years.

Aldridge takes terrible shots
Jordan is great at cleanup and dunks but can't create anything and can't shoot foul shots
Carroll is a nice energy player in the Ariza role
Mudiay is a kid who can't shoot and if he is good, it may take a few years to see the fruits
Russell is going to have to get stronger and it will take him a few years to shine

an all rookie backcourt aint gonna work.

that team will lose > 50 games

Well, as with several of your recent assessments, I think you're completely off the mark.
Unfortunately, we won't have a chance to realize the experiment but that team wins 45 games in year 1. And 55-60 in year 3.
Regardless of you being irked for many years, distancing the "save face" component from future decision making will yield better cumulative results.

which assessments don't you agree with?

you did not address my concerns with the lineup that you proposed.

Your concerns with the lineup are largely frivolous. Jordan not creating anything on offense is extraneous - he is the best rebounder in the league and a great defender. Aldridge does take bad shots, and while not optimal, results in a WS/48 of 0.165, quite productive. Carroll stretches the floor for 2 penetrating guards/ also a net positive player on both ends with a WS/48 of 0.154.

The only reasonable concern you had above is that the backcourt is in their first year. I expect both will be serviceable next year, in part because of Russell's immediate shooting impact and Mudiay's year of professional prep. Again, I'm not as irked as you are by what Toronto gets next year; what the Knicks get going forward is more salient.

those TS's would tank if they played together

I didn't mention true shooting percentages but go ahead and describe why they would suffer, given strong and weak side dynamic 2-man options.

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

codeunknown wrote:I'll trade Carmelo and a 2018 1st round top 5 protected (in perpetuity) pick for the Lakers # 2 pick.

And in line with this improbable but interesting scenario, I draft Russell at 2, Mudiay at 4, sign Aldridge (20), D Jordan (20) and Carroll (10).

Mudiay
Russell
Carroll
Aldridge
Jordan

toronto would be thrilled

No they wouldn't.

would too

1. How many wins does that team get?
2. What current relevance should/does Toronto's pick have on Knick decision making?

a lot of relevance. The knicks can't stink next year and can't go into rebuild mode because that pick is gonna irk many for years.

Aldridge takes terrible shots
Jordan is great at cleanup and dunks but can't create anything and can't shoot foul shots
Carroll is a nice energy player in the Ariza role
Mudiay is a kid who can't shoot and if he is good, it may take a few years to see the fruits
Russell is going to have to get stronger and it will take him a few years to shine

an all rookie backcourt aint gonna work.

that team will lose > 50 games

Well, as with several of your recent assessments, I think you're completely off the mark.
Unfortunately, we won't have a chance to realize the experiment but that team wins 45 games in year 1. And 55-60 in year 3.
Regardless of you being irked for many years, distancing the "save face" component from future decision making will yield better cumulative results.

which assessments don't you agree with?

you did not address my concerns with the lineup that you proposed.

Your concerns with the lineup are largely frivolous. Jordan not creating anything on offense is extraneous - he is the best rebounder in the league and a great defender. Aldridge does take bad shots, and while not optimal, results in a WS/48 of 0.165, quite productive. Carroll stretches the floor for 2 penetrating guards/ also a net positive player on both ends with a WS/48 of 0.154.

The only reasonable concern you had above is that the backcourt is in their first year. I expect both will be serviceable next year, in part because of Russell's immediate shooting impact and Mudiay's year of professional prep. Again, I'm not as irked as you are by what Toronto gets next year; what the Knicks get going forward is more salient.

those TS's would tank if they played together

I didn't mention true shooting percentages but go ahead and describe why they would suffer, given strong and weak side dynamic 2-man options.

I meant WS48 but yes. their TS's would suffer too

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

codeunknown wrote:I'll trade Carmelo and a 2018 1st round top 5 protected (in perpetuity) pick for the Lakers # 2 pick.

And in line with this improbable but interesting scenario, I draft Russell at 2, Mudiay at 4, sign Aldridge (20), D Jordan (20) and Carroll (10).

Mudiay
Russell
Carroll
Aldridge
Jordan

toronto would be thrilled

No they wouldn't.

would too

1. How many wins does that team get?
2. What current relevance should/does Toronto's pick have on Knick decision making?

a lot of relevance. The knicks can't stink next year and can't go into rebuild mode because that pick is gonna irk many for years.

Aldridge takes terrible shots
Jordan is great at cleanup and dunks but can't create anything and can't shoot foul shots
Carroll is a nice energy player in the Ariza role
Mudiay is a kid who can't shoot and if he is good, it may take a few years to see the fruits
Russell is going to have to get stronger and it will take him a few years to shine

an all rookie backcourt aint gonna work.

that team will lose > 50 games

Well, as with several of your recent assessments, I think you're completely off the mark.
Unfortunately, we won't have a chance to realize the experiment but that team wins 45 games in year 1. And 55-60 in year 3.
Regardless of you being irked for many years, distancing the "save face" component from future decision making will yield better cumulative results.

which assessments don't you agree with?

you did not address my concerns with the lineup that you proposed.

Your concerns with the lineup are largely frivolous. Jordan not creating anything on offense is extraneous - he is the best rebounder in the league and a great defender. Aldridge does take bad shots, and while not optimal, results in a WS/48 of 0.165, quite productive. Carroll stretches the floor for 2 penetrating guards/ also a net positive player on both ends with a WS/48 of 0.154.

The only reasonable concern you had above is that the backcourt is in their first year. I expect both will be serviceable next year, in part because of Russell's immediate shooting impact and Mudiay's year of professional prep. Again, I'm not as irked as you are by what Toronto gets next year; what the Knicks get going forward is more salient.

those TS's would tank if they played together

I didn't mention true shooting percentages but go ahead and describe why they would suffer, given strong and weak side dynamic 2-man options.

I meant WS48 but yes. their TS's would suffer too

Who all does "they" include - only Aldridge and Carroll or the entire lineup? and why would their contributions suffer?

Do not trade the pick.....We can still get a good player at 4.

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As pissed as i am about not getting in the top 3, trading the pick would be so stupid. Having said that i fully expect the knicks to trade the pick....because thats what the Knicks do lol

Words that scare me: "We have a lot of young players on our roster right now."

This makes me think they're trading the pick:

Mills also revealed that if the Knicks acquired a second-round pick, that player likely wouldn't be on the team because of their need for immediate help.

"We have a lot of young players on our roster right now," he said. "Our goal is to expand the team and add some more veteran and more experienced players onto the roster."

The Knicks are fucking morons and as long as they are run by Dolan, they will continue to be run into the ground.

Im still really pissed about falling to 4. Don't Believe that Mudiay will be the player Russell is going to be. Dont want Cauley Stein, Winslow looks like a role player. It will be a miracle if Russell falls to us which means we dont stand a chance in hell.

My concern with the draft before the lottery was that Phil might get too cute with the pick. At 4 thats a real possibility. Im usually one of the glass half full posters on this board, but after Isiah slithering back to MSG, and the Knicks being the only team to fall in the draft, I expect the worst. Please prove me wrong Phil.

crzymdups wrote:The Knicks are fucking morons and as long as they are run by Dolan, they will continue to be run into the ground.

I think we have to calm down a bit with regard to the Knicks plan this summer. They aren't looking to create the Sixers or any other young team. They are going for a more mature team with some youth mixed in. The top of the rotation will be veteran players who are ready to win now. Some may not like this but that is what they're looking to do.

Phil and his staff are looking to put a team together that can win in the short term. However, they aren't completely selling off the future as some may think. They may make a deal that can help bring in more talent and still use the draft to add a young player. Maybe they are not as worried about staying at 4 if they can leverage that pick into more assets and still grab a good player like WCS. I think if they make a deal it would be to get more assets and take Stein to anchor the defense. Then they can go hard in Free Agency for a scoring big like LMA or Monroe and a SG like Danny Green. We may not like it but that could be one of their options.

crzymdups wrote:Words that scare me: "We have a lot of young players on our roster right now."

This makes me think they're trading the pick:

Mills also revealed that if the Knicks acquired a second-round pick, that player likely wouldn't be on the team because of their need for immediate help.

"We have a lot of young players on our roster right now," he said. "Our goal is to expand the team and add some more veteran and more experienced players onto the roster."

The Knicks have not done well on a big trade in 15 years--not 1. Weve lost every trade. Since Phil has been here his record has been bad. We all had our hopes on one of Towns or Okafor for months and its taken a couple of days to reboot. But I say play it safe with Mudiay--hes a quality PG who will be that way for a decade. He really is the safest pick and when everything is weighed in we need a safe secure pick more than anything. More than a player who fits a system more than a 7 footer with no offensive game more than a Euro with a suspect body type. The BOTTOM line is Mudiay can handle the rock with speed power and intelligence at 6-5. We have NEVER had a big great guard since Clyde. This gives you a franchise QB and lets be happy with that. Im not interested in Knick trades unless they are picking up additional picks. Look at the poeple making the pick Isiah Thomas Phil Dolan Mills--a cornucopia of proven incompetence.

And I agree with Steven A Smith and other people who say the Knicks dropped the ball winning those last 2 games. It GUARANTEED us an 83% chance at picking 1-2-3 we held the position 70% of the year. Its easy to say well the pick #1 doesnt always come from spot 1--ok. But we know that the statistical probability of that continuing was dropping like a rock --pick #1 was due. Right now winning those 2 absolute worthless games might ve cost the franchise a decade of a power franchise pivot. Everyone here called it---Phil could've got that right so could Fischer and they did not--they blew it again for the fans. Don't put your head down Mills--keep it up--you dont deserve to show disappointment after fcking it up--thats a fans job