Knicks · Mike Francesa says he's heard rumors of Ty Lawson in NY. (page 3)
FistOfOakley@ 6/5/2015 11:03 PM
and faried's contract is even worse... he does ok boardwork.. very little else... he's a good energy guy and a fringe starter but ugh... none of the denver players besides nurkic entices me...
yellowboy90@ 6/5/2015 11:12 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:and faried's contract is even worse... he does ok boardwork.. very little else... he's a good energy guy and a fringe starter but ugh... none of the denver players besides nurkic entices me...
He does better than okay board work. I am asking to gauge the different perspective people have in him and Tristan Thompson. Tristan is just now only approaching what Faried has been doing and he will probably get a bigger contract
FistOfOakley@ 6/6/2015 12:10 AM
yeah i mean faried is an ok player but he's limited.... he's a bit redundant if we plan to sign monroe and monroe at least has some upside left... faried is not someone i would want in 3 years...
WaltLongmire@ 6/6/2015 1:02 AM
Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
BRIGGS@ 6/6/2015 1:07 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
Hes kind of smallish?
WaltLongmire@ 6/6/2015 1:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
Hes kind of smallish?
As a PF? Yup. Also figure his jumping ability has decreased a bit. Pair him with Anthony and Monroe and we have a relatively small front line, with little shot blocking ability.
Predraft Measurements Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 6" 6' 7.5" 225 7' 0" 9' 0" 6.3 30.5 35.0
yellowboy90@ 6/6/2015 2:16 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
Hes kind of smallish?
As a PF? Yup. Also figure his jumping ability has decreased a bit. Pair him with Anthony and Monroe and we have a relatively small front line, with little shot blocking ability.
Predraft Measurements Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 6" 6' 7.5" 225 7' 0" 9' 0" 6.3 30.5 35.0
Tristan
Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 7.5" 6' 8.75" 227 7' 1.25" 9' 0.5" 6.2 30.0 35.
plus Faried's jumping ability looks okay
WaltLongmire@ 6/6/2015 2:44 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
Hes kind of smallish?
As a PF? Yup. Also figure his jumping ability has decreased a bit. Pair him with Anthony and Monroe and we have a relatively small front line, with little shot blocking ability.
Predraft Measurements Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 6" 6' 7.5" 225 7' 0" 9' 0" 6.3 30.5 35.0
Tristan
Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 7.5" 6' 8.75" 227 7' 1.25" 9' 0.5" 6.2 30.0 35.
plus Faried's jumping ability looks okay
Come on, yellowfellow, he's still small, and using advanced computer analysis I measured his vertical leab as 34'.40". People also shrink as they age- poor guy is probably down to 6'3" for goodness sake- its the hair that makes him seem bigger.
Better than Thompson on offense as far as shooting goes, but still a limited shooter.
I actually like him as a player, not sure he is Phil's type of guy.
He's a warrior, though- at least when things were going better in Denver- don't know about now.
One issue- don't think he's played much more than 28.1 MPG in his entire career.
smackeddog@ 6/6/2015 3:09 AM
No to Lawson- I used to like him, but the past few years his attitude has gone downhill. I read he doesn't love bball, he'll turn up, clock in his hours and that's about it. Doesn't fit our system either. Isn't he a bad defender too? And usually injured. He is desperate for a trade though. The thing I don't like about it it essentially losing control of our draft- at 4 we can pick whoever impresses us the most, be it Mudiay, Winslow, WCS, Kaminsky, Porzingis, whatever, at 7, you're pretty much stuck with whoever is left.
However, I suspect this rumour may be true (maybe we pick Lyles)- he certainly fits our usual draft day trade criteria (injury prone, big contract, questionable attitude), plus Phil has been speaking a lot about the need for a player that can penetrate.
Just remember he is an awful defender, and also remember:
Lawson failing to show is the latest in a string of incidents that have upset management in the past two years. He had a domestic incident in the summer of 2013, a case that was eventually dropped. He missed a team breakfast meeting late last season and was held out of the starting lineup. In January he was arrested on suspicion of DUI.
knickscity@ 6/6/2015 4:26 AM
H1AND1 wrote:Ugh. That would be a disaster. Trade our first high pick in years for a perennially injured PG. Double frigging ugh.
The rumore is Ty Lawson not Kyrie.
yellowboy90@ 6/6/2015 5:07 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Faried has had some injury issues, no? He's also a smaller PF,
Not sure he has progressed as much as I expected him to.
Don't know about Lawson's lifestyle, but always felt he played hard, and that is why he got injured. I see him as a bit brittle- type of player who will always be picking up those small injuries after spills to the floor.
Don't have as low or an opinion of him as some here, do, though.
Don't think Phil would make this trade.
Hes kind of smallish?
As a PF? Yup. Also figure his jumping ability has decreased a bit. Pair him with Anthony and Monroe and we have a relatively small front line, with little shot blocking ability.
Predraft Measurements Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 6" 6' 7.5" 225 7' 0" 9' 0" 6.3 30.5 35.0
Tristan
Year Source Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert 2011 NBA Draft Combine 6' 7.5" 6' 8.75" 227 7' 1.25" 9' 0.5" 6.2 30.0 35.
plus Faried's jumping ability looks okay
Come on, yellowfellow, he's still small, and using advanced computer analysis I measured his vertical leab as 34'.40". People also shrink as they age- poor guy is probably down to 6'3" for goodness sake- its the hair that makes him seem bigger.
Better than Thompson on offense as far as shooting goes, but still a limited shooter.
I actually like him as a player, not sure he is Phil's type of guy.
He's a warrior, though- at least when things were going better in Denver- don't know about now.
One issue- don't think he's played much more than 28.1 MPG in his entire career.
No I agree with you that he is undersized but he still rebounds like a tall guy. Like I said I'm just making a fuss because of the Tristan thompson love(nothing wrong with that). Also I like him as a backup. Yes, a very expensive 6 man but not more expensive than the last 3rd big(Amar'e)
earthmansurfer@ 6/6/2015 7:35 AM
The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
Bonn1997@ 6/6/2015 7:43 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s. The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started. Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.
yellowboy90@ 6/6/2015 8:19 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s. The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started. Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.
Strictly talking about the Lawson and #7 for Jose and the #4 is kind of around market value, swap lottery and 1st rd plus 2nd rd in most cases. Lawson takes the place of the 1st and Calderon is the second rd pick and the price for getting into the top 5.
If that deal was on the table I would rather keep Calderon and push for more picks. Phil needs to get future picks not unload dead weight. I seriously doubt he sees Calderon as dead weight.
shinmen@ 6/6/2015 8:24 AM
No way we should make this trade. We can still use Calderon as a sg in the second unit. If Phil really doens't want him. Stretch him, in one year with the salary cap explloding, it will be insignificant. We have given up enough assets in the last few years. Shved was penetrating very well last year and he won't command as much money.
Bonn1997@ 6/6/2015 8:24 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s. The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started. Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.
Strictly talking about the Lawson and #7 for Jose and the #4 is kind of around market value, swap lottery and 1st rd plus 2nd rd in most cases. Lawson takes the place of the 1st and Calderon is the second rd pick and the price for getting into the top 5.
If that deal was on the table I would rather keep Calderon and push for more picks. Phil needs to get future picks not unload dead weight. I seriously doubt he sees Calderon as dead weight.
I don't know. There were a lot of reports of the Knicks trying to get rid of Calderon during the year. You really think the difference between picks 4 and 7 is comparable to the difference between Calderon and Lawson?
H1AND1@ 6/6/2015 8:33 AM
knickscity wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:Ugh. That would be a disaster. Trade our first high pick in years for a perennially injured PG. Double frigging ugh.
The rumore is Ty Lawson not Kyrie.
Lawson has played over 80 games only one season in his career and is not a good 3 point shooter. That's why I'm Not a fan.
Bonn1997@ 6/6/2015 8:37 AM
H1AND1 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:Ugh. That would be a disaster. Trade our first high pick in years for a perennially injured PG. Double frigging ugh.
The rumore is Ty Lawson not Kyrie.
Lawson has played over 80 games only one season in his career and is not a good 3 point shooter. That's why I'm Not a fan.
Over 80? That would mean seasons where he's missed only 1 game? That's a pretty high standard. Melo has missed that in each of the past eleven years
Bonn1997@ 6/6/2015 8:55 AM
Based on 2013-14, I believe the average player was healthy for at most 70.9 games (and probably less). I'm calculating that since all I can find is that the 30 teams lost 4989 player appearances in games due to injury. That's 166.3 per team and 11.09 per player assuming a 15 man roster. (It's probably more games missed per player since not all teams have 15 man rosters.) During his career, Lawson played in 69.3 games per season. I don't know if those missed games were all due to injury or some were DNP-CDs, though. Either way, his injury history looks average and doesn't seem worthy of discussion.
The only reason not to do this trade would be if you want to argue that we need to do everything possible to get a franchise player and we're more likely to get that at #4 than 7. Even if we're unlikely to get a franchise player at either position and this trade is a good overall gamble, you'd argue the slight decrease in likelihood of getting a franchise player at 7 than 4 is more important. If we were committed to long-term rebuilding, I'd go along with this argument.
yellowboy90@ 6/6/2015 8:56 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s. The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started. Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.
Strictly talking about the Lawson and #7 for Jose and the #4 is kind of around market value, swap lottery and 1st rd plus 2nd rd in most cases. Lawson takes the place of the 1st and Calderon is the second rd pick and the price for getting into the top 5.
If that deal was on the table I would rather keep Calderon and push for more picks. Phil needs to get future picks not unload dead weight. I seriously doubt he sees Calderon as dead weight.
I don't know. There were a lot of reports of the Knicks trying to get rid of Calderon during the year. You really think the difference between picks 4 and 7 is comparable to the difference between Calderon and Lawson?
that's a good question but they might see Mudiay so much further ahead of the pack and any available pg.
Bonn1997@ 6/6/2015 9:03 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get rid of Calderon.
36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s. The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started. Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.
Strictly talking about the Lawson and #7 for Jose and the #4 is kind of around market value, swap lottery and 1st rd plus 2nd rd in most cases. Lawson takes the place of the 1st and Calderon is the second rd pick and the price for getting into the top 5.
If that deal was on the table I would rather keep Calderon and push for more picks. Phil needs to get future picks not unload dead weight. I seriously doubt he sees Calderon as dead weight.
I don't know. There were a lot of reports of the Knicks trying to get rid of Calderon during the year. You really think the difference between picks 4 and 7 is comparable to the difference between Calderon and Lawson?
that's a good question but they might see Mudiay so much further ahead of the pack and any available pg.
Well, we have only one good player out of a fifteen man roster. So it doesn't make sense to narrow in on the PG position. I'll admit it's possible Mudiay is way better than whoever is available at #7. But it's definite that Lawson is way better than Calderon.
