Knicks · Derrick Williams signed (page 6)

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

I hate to say it, I wouldn't call Derrick a high IQ player. He doesn't fit with ROLO and Afflalo and Grant and Porzingis to me - I would agree all those guys are high IQ.

This Williams signing feels like it doesn't fit the method Phil has been using. But hopefully it means he and the staff really saw something in him.

I'm leery of this signing, but I am somewhat intrigued to see if he can put it all together.

So you don't think the guy that Phil Jackson thinks fits what he's looking for fits what Phil Jackson is looking for?? Got it.

He just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the signings. No need to get shirty.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

I hate to say it, I wouldn't call Derrick a high IQ player. He doesn't fit with ROLO and Afflalo and Grant and Porzingis to me - I would agree all those guys are high IQ.

This Williams signing feels like it doesn't fit the method Phil has been using. But hopefully it means he and the staff really saw something in him.

I'm leery of this signing, but I am somewhat intrigued to see if he can put it all together.

So you don't think the guy that Phil Jackson thinks fits what he's looking for fits what Phil Jackson is looking for?? Got it.

I think the issue is that no one is quite sure anymore about what Phil is thinking or building. If we knew at the time of Phil's hiring that his plan was to gut the team, go through a 15 win season, get at question mark in the draft and fill the cap space with non-marquee free agents, how many of us would have lauded his arrival? I am still hoping that he has some trick up his sleeve which he will pull out and put all doubters to shame. But this hope is beginning to slip.

I like Derrick Williams for what he can bring and his potential. It's only $5 mil a year. Shump got $10 mil a year for 4 yrs. Williams has more potential than Shump. Sac didn't give him his qualifying offer because it was $8.7 mil, so they let him go. I think Derrick W needs to be motivated - he has the skills - but hasn't demonstated them consistantly.

Some commentators say he is soft; plays no defense; can't shoot; etc. But if you read our board, you might think the same of any one of our players. Williams is only 24 yrs old. It's time for him to mature and grow up. This is what he can offer us which is exactly what we lack inside. For $5 mil its a good signing.

Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

For those that think why not just go with Cole, Acy, Bargs, Smith for cheaper, it's bc we been there done that.

there's a little bit of swinging for the fences with this guy Williams, and that's cool. if that costs a little more than you're comfortable with, so what. ya gotta take a chance. and its a small chance at that.

I am not sure about this signing as well but I am not going to kill Phil about this one. Contract is not horrific and we haven't had a Williams in our roster in awhile.

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

I hate to say it, I wouldn't call Derrick a high IQ player. He doesn't fit with ROLO and Afflalo and Grant and Porzingis to me - I would agree all those guys are high IQ.

This Williams signing feels like it doesn't fit the method Phil has been using. But hopefully it means he and the staff really saw something in him.

I'm leery of this signing, but I am somewhat intrigued to see if he can put it all together.

So you don't think the guy that Phil Jackson thinks fits what he's looking for fits what Phil Jackson is looking for?? Got it.

+1

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

if you don't rebound, pass, or defend I am not sure you should be in the high iQ category. I mean with his athletic gifts he should at least be similar to Tobias Harris but he is worst than Quincy Acy.

For $5mm you are not getting the top performing SF/PFs that rebound, play defense at the age of 24. Those guys signed with their original teams... Guys like Leonard, Butler got paid cause they perform. I'm not saying Williams is a steal, he is a gamble. But if the analysis is past performance only, Hassan Whiteside never makes it back to the NBA. I have to believe Jackson sees situational upside to Williams within the Triangle that may not have existed in other systems. It's a $5m bet. I'll accept the risk that Phil can get the best out of him. He seems to get the best out of his players -- as a coach. Hopefully, he can do the same as a GM.

Beyond the draft, you bet on major upside by picking up guys at close to minimum contracts out of D-League, Europe or off waivers or after all FA signings are done. Not for $5m and 2 years. I would have preferred someone with some utility to the team, in case no upside is realized. Jordan Hill for his 12ppt+8reb, Byombo for his blocks, Shved for proving able to carry the team at times of adversity, Lin for the Linsanity, etc.

The very least we could have negotiated a team option, instead of a player option for next year. Now, if this guy is good, he will still eat some more into our cap next year. And if this guy is a bust, he will certainly opt in next year, and that $5m could be a key difference in our FA signings. Phil just seems to do things backwards. Just like winning that one game last year made the difference for us between Okafor and Porzingis at draft time.

ESOMKnicks wrote:Beyond the draft, you bet on major upside by picking up guys at close to minimum contracts out of D-League, Europe or off waivers or after all FA signings are done. Not for $5m and 2 years. I would have preferred someone with some utility to the team, in case no upside is realized. Jordan Hill for his 12ppt+8reb, Byombo for his blocks, Shved for proving able to carry the team at times of adversity, Lin for the Linsanity, etc.

The very least we could have negotiated a team option, instead of a player option for next year. Now, if this guy is good, he will still eat some more into our cap next year. And if this guy is a bust, he will certainly opt in next year, and that $5m could be a key difference in our FA signings. Phil just seems to do things backwards. Just like winning that one game last year made the difference for us between Okafor and Porzingis at draft time.

A one year expiring deal at 5 mil seems like it would be easy to move. Williams has had a disappointing career but the Knicks picked this guy out to take a chance on. Have to hope they get it right like they did with Galloway and Shved.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

Career-wise his metrics are only a little below average. But in 2 of the past 3 years, his metrics have been really bad and he's entering an age (the 30s) where metrics usually go downhill.

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

Absolutely. I would have rather saved that cap space and used it to take on some other team's salary dump for additional assets. At least they're only 2 year deals.

EwingsGlass wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

if you don't rebound, pass, or defend I am not sure you should be in the high iQ category. I mean with his athletic gifts he should at least be similar to Tobias Harris but he is worst than Quincy Acy.

For $5mm you are not getting the top performing SF/PFs that rebound, play defense at the age of 24. Those guys signed with their original teams... Guys like Leonard, Butler got paid cause they perform. I'm not saying Williams is a steal, he is a gamble. But if the analysis is past performance only, Hassan Whiteside never makes it back to the NBA. I have to believe Jackson sees situational upside to Williams within the Triangle that may not have existed in other systems. It's a $5m bet. I'll accept the risk that Phil can get the best out of him. He seems to get the best out of his players -- as a coach. Hopefully, he can do the same as a GM.

This is the key here. This style of BB is quite different than what his previous teams ran. This system is one where all players are always engaged in the play. There are specific things Derrick will be tasked with doing and the hope is that having such a very clear set of rules to execute could help him focus his game into mostly very efficient and smart plays. It helped Lance Thomas have a role but just imagine if Thomas had the talent of Derrick? In those same positions Derrick could be much more effective. I think that's what Phil is banking on.

The electricity is gone.

Derrick Williams, nicknamed “D-Thrill” by Sacramento fans for his thunderous dunks, has decided to sign a two-year, $10 million contract with the New York Knicks. The second year is a player option according to ESPN’s Chris Broussard.

The Kings declined a qualifying offer for Williams by the July 1 deadline, making him an unrestricted free agent. He met with Knicks officials in Los Angeles prior to Friday’s announcement.

On November 26, 2013, Williams was traded from the Minnesota Timberwolves to the Kings in exchange for Luc Mbah a Moute. In 141 games with the Kings (21 starts), the wing produced 8.4 points, 3.5 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 0.6 steals and 0.9 turnovers in 22.1 minutes a contest.

Williams’ stint in Sacramento was maddeningly inconsistent. The 24-year-old scored a career-high 31 points against the Dallas Mavericks on December 9, 2013, but more often than not the incredible leaper disappeared for long stretches on offense.

The February hiring of head coach George Karl brought the best out of Williams to date, yet he still struggled with defense, rebounding and passing. The 6-foot-8, 240-pounder remains a tweener at forward in the NBA, a concern even before the Timberwolves drafted him second overall from Arizona in 2011.

In the Big Apple, Williams will be given ample opportunities to realize his potential. He’ll be remembered in Sacramento for providing an entertaining distraction from a season of off-court drama.
- See more at: http://cowbellkingdom.com/derrick-williams-leaves-kings-for-knicks/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ckingdom+%28Cowbell+Kingdom%29#sthash.31VAX4QC.dpuf

http://cowbellkingdom.com/derrick-willia...

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Brandon Bass is so much better. I dont see it in Williams. Phil whiffed in free agency.

Bass is 30 and will want more money. Derrick is 24 with more upside.

Bass is a proven two way player. We are not in a position to be taking these kind of chances imo

We all know Bass is a very good player but he won't be coming for $5 mil. We can give this kid a shot for less and try to see if we can get him going. He has way more upside.
Also we still have money to get another player.

Young movement with additional funds for the current knick role players. Dallas is in need for a PG.....good time for a trade.....

Man I want Dallas to take him back so bad. Calderon is only good for 1 thing on the Knicks: teaching Grant, Gallo the PG position and helping the team learn the triangle, that's it. I can see the Mavs limping along during the beginning of the season, and hopefully Jose shows that he's got something left at the same time, and then a trade happening. Who else can Dallas add as the PG position?

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Brandon Bass is so much better. I dont see it in Williams. Phil whiffed in free agency.

Bass is 30 and will want more money. Derrick is 24 with more upside.

Bass is a proven two way player. We are not in a position to be taking these kind of chances imo

We all know Bass is a very good player but he won't be coming for $5 mil. We can give this kid a shot for less and try to see if we can get him going. He has way more upside.
Also we still have money to get another player.

Young movement with additional funds for the current knick role players. Dallas is in need for a PG.....good time for a trade.....

Man I want Dallas to take him back so bad. Calderon is only good for 1 thing on the Knicks: teaching Grant, Gallo the PG position and helping the team learn the triangle, that's it. I can see the Mavs limping along during the beginning of the season, and hopefully Jose shows that he's got something left at the same time, and then a trade happening. Who else can Dallas add as the PG position?

I think the Nets are going to move Jarrett Jack. Have to hope the Mavs are fond of Jose and value his strengths.

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I'm not a big fan of Affalo either but his 2013-2014 wasn't that bad from an advanced metric perspective and at least he had some seasons that were very strong (and there are some mitigating factors like his injury last season, etc. that might be able to explain some of the decline). Feel like his contract adequately reflects the risk of him not being able to perform at a high level.

Williams just has never produced yet over the course of one season and we're paying for potential....

I'll give Phil the benefit of the doubt...seems a little risky though at $5 million a season.

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

So I have not heard that about Rolo, Afflalo or DWilliams.... is that true? Literally dont know.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

So I have not heard that about Rolo, Afflalo or DWilliams.... is that true? Literally dont know.

It's definitely true for Lopez. I think Afflalo can play well in the right situation. Not sure about Williams.