knickscity wrote:Wroten has been in the league for a few years now, and really hasnt improved in his game at all.. Yes, he can get to the rim, lots of players can. Gallo and Grant can get to the rim. i just dont see the potential with a player who just cant shoot at all, turns the ball over quite a bit, is only effective WITH the ball, and doesnt seem to care about working on his off hand. His defense is not good either even with the steals. Players who can only go one direction can easily be neutralized in game. besides, we dont run an offense to suit him and that is not gonna change.He's not better than Grant, more like a scaled down version. If anything thats the player that needs to be coached up.
You are trying your best to make Wroten sound like Toure Murry.
You can't use his high turnovers and then disregard his high steals.
he hasn't improved his game yet he's improved his starts every year in the league.
We run an offense that rewards cutters. His bread and butter is getting to the basket. How does he not fit?
He only has one hand? I posted a 9 minute video of him using both hands....
you can't lie enough to make your point stick.
I don't know. A PG who only shoots career 65% from the free throw line (54% this year) isn't usually my first choice . . .
Malcolm wrote:I don't know. A PG who only shoots career 65% from the free throw line (54% this year) isn't usually my first choice . . .
Everyone seems to love Rondo
franco12 wrote:knickscity wrote:Wroten has been in the league for a few years now, and really hasnt improved in his game at all.. Yes, he can get to the rim, lots of players can. Gallo and Grant can get to the rim. i just dont see the potential with a player who just cant shoot at all, turns the ball over quite a bit, is only effective WITH the ball, and doesnt seem to care about working on his off hand. His defense is not good either even with the steals. Players who can only go one direction can easily be neutralized in game. besides, we dont run an offense to suit him and that is not gonna change.He's not better than Grant, more like a scaled down version. If anything thats the player that needs to be coached up.
I love Grant, but I don't think he puts up the numbers Wroten put up last year on the Philly squad.
If we were to sign him, I assume we're not going more than the rest of the year - so we lose what, exactly?
Wroten was basically given the green light when he played, and no one on the team had a higher usage rate. You're looking at numbers you have to watch him play. Nearly all of his scores were near the rim and he only converted just above half of those. he also led the team in turnover % as well, but I guess the argument will be "who does he have to pass to.?"
Gallo and Shved put up similar numbers when given the ball exclusively in that same season. Numbers produced on bad team mean little.
EnySpree wrote:Malcolm wrote:I don't know. A PG who only shoots career 65% from the free throw line (54% this year) isn't usually my first choice . . .
Everyone seems to love Rondo
Rondo racks up triple doubles. Wroten is no Rondo...lol.
EnySpree wrote:knickscity wrote:Wroten has been in the league for a few years now, and really hasnt improved in his game at all.. Yes, he can get to the rim, lots of players can. Gallo and Grant can get to the rim. i just dont see the potential with a player who just cant shoot at all, turns the ball over quite a bit, is only effective WITH the ball, and doesnt seem to care about working on his off hand. His defense is not good either even with the steals. Players who can only go one direction can easily be neutralized in game. besides, we dont run an offense to suit him and that is not gonna change.He's not better than Grant, more like a scaled down version. If anything thats the player that needs to be coached up.
You are trying your best to make Wroten sound like Toure Murry.
You can't use his high turnovers and then disregard his high steals.
he hasn't improved his game yet he's improved his starts every year in the league.
We run an offense that rewards cutters. His bread and butter is getting to the basket. How does he not fit?
He only has one hand? I posted a 9 minute video of him using both hands....
you can't lie enough to make your point stick.
He doesnt have a right hand, he favors his left. Maybe watch him some instead of just highlights. I'm saying he isnt a good player, but his skill of getting to the rim is not different than a player we already have in Grant.
Calderon averages a steal for his career is he a good defender? i could see if Wroten was getting two or three a game, but he averages 1. Where has Wroten actually improved? His best year actually was his 2nd using stats.
Wroten's bread and butter is getting to the rack WITH the ball. We dont run that offense.
The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.
Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
knickscity wrote:The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
Because he's left handed...
I don't want to keep arguing this because Wroten isn't a winner. The thing is he's shown enough and is young still. He's a minimum player for the rest of the year if he clears waivers. He adds something we don't have. Low risk high reward. It's not like we are arguing over a dude that's gonna get 20 mill a year.
knickscity wrote:The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
Walt Frazier would go crazy watching this video telling the defenders on the screen to remember that he's a lefty and to overplay him to that side.
My favorite "highlight" is the 3 point shot he banked in...
...I'm sure he called it.
I will be stunned if Phil takes a chance on Wroten...the fact that he's recovering from an injury is enough, on its own, to make him a risk for any team with thoughts of making the playoffs. Add to this the kind of game he has and you figure that Jackson will hopefully ignore him.
EnySpree wrote:knickscity wrote:The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
Because he's left handed...
I don't want to keep arguing this because Wroten isn't a winner. The thing is he's shown enough and is young still. He's a minimum player for the rest of the year if he clears waivers. He adds something we don't have. Low risk high reward. It's not like we are arguing over a dude that's gonna get 20 mill a year.
I dont understand what Wroten can do that Grant isnt capable of? Both can get to the rim with relative easy. And nah, he HEAVILY favors his left, and that can be easily taken away if defenses focus on it. He literally crosses past the right side to get to the left.., that can be easily defended.
I do understand he'd be basically free if he clear waivers, but he's no more than a scaled down Jerian Grant who actually can finish with both hands.
WaltLongmire wrote:knickscity wrote:The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
Walt Frazier would go crazy watching this video telling the defenders on the screen to remember that he's a lefty and to overplay him to that side.
My favorite "highlight" is the 3 point shot he banked in...
...I'm sure he called it.
I will be stunned if Phil takes a chance on Wroten...the fact that he's recovering from an injury is enough, on its own, to make him a risk for any team with thoughts of making the playoffs. Add to this the kind of game he has and you figure that Jackson will hopefully ignore him.
Yep. I hardly go gaga for highlight videos anyway, but on one of the worst teams ever? Cant take it serious. But the games I did watch, I was totally thinking why isnt anyone forcing him right? No way he'd be allowed to cross the lane and the basket itself because he cant comfortably finish on that side.
Every team in the league has guards who can get in the lane. We have Grant who can, but our offense doesnt require it, and we have little intention of playing that particular style. Fisher doesnt even really want to run pick and rolls let alone having guards attack the rim.
This notion that the Triangle doesn't require a guard drive is a bit off. It's most certainly needed since the very first goal is to push the ball and look for early scoring opportunities!!! This is rule one! Cutting off the side Triangle is important. Dribble hand off in the Pinch Post 2 man game is huge. Give n Go and PnR to a lesser degree but many times in this offense the need for a guard to handle the ball and or drive after receiving the pass is there. Sure the PG isn't always ball dominant but when they do get the ball they still need the same penetration and finishing skills.
EnySpree wrote:knickscity wrote:The irony of that highlight is nearly all of his finishes are on the left side of the basket with his left hand. He puposely crosses past the right side because he has trouble finishing with his right.Even his passes normal passes and oops were lefties...lol.
Because he's left handed...
I don't want to keep arguing this because Wroten isn't a winner. The thing is he's shown enough and is young still. He's a minimum player for the rest of the year if he clears waivers. He adds something we don't have. Low risk high reward. It's not like we are arguing over a dude that's gonna get 20 mill a year.
I agree. Also, he would be the second youngest player on the team. He isn't a finished product by any means.
I googled to see when Wroten clears waivers. He clears at 5:00 today. 80% pgBlazers fans that participated in a poll on a blog want the blazers to submit a waiver claim on Wroten.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/12/24/10...
nixluva wrote:This notion that the Triangle doesn't require a guard drive is a bit off. It's most certainly needed since the very first goal is to push the ball and look for early scoring opportunities!!! This is rule one! Cutting off the side Triangle is important. Dribble hand off in the Pinch Post 2 man game is huge. Give n Go and PnR to a lesser degree but many times in this offense the need for a guard to handle the ball and or drive after receiving the pass is there. Sure the PG isn't always ball dominant but when they do get the ball they still need the same penetration and finishing skills.
It really doesnt require it, not that it couldn't use a boost of it. I recall just a few games ago that Fisher even made mention that something like the pick and roll which he recognizes is an advantage doesnt want to use it as much, but rather "play the right way". We have a few players who want to operate in transition, but our offense is not that type, it's half court oriented featuring a jump shot, so in a way those players are neutered.
We dont push the ball and it isnt just because of Calderon, its the design of the offense. Any player with dribbling skills and court vision can push the tempo. Lopez stops near the three point line on every set because he knows thats where the ball will be delivered every trip down.
Thats by design.
CrushAlot wrote:I googled to see when Wroten clears waivers. He clears at 5:00 today. 80% pgBlazers fans that participated in a poll on a blog want the blazers to submit a waiver claim on Wroten.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/12/24/10...
Take a read in the comments section of that article. Normally I see alot of homersim and trolling, but those comments are highly spot on. I wouldnt judge too much by the voting. All struggling teams fans want their team to pick up all waived youngsters.
knickscity wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I googled to see when Wroten clears waivers. He clears at 5:00 today. 80% pgBlazers fans that participated in a poll on a blog want the blazers to submit a waiver claim on Wroten.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/12/24/10...
Take a read in the comments section of that article. Normally I see alot of homersim and trolling, but those comments are highly spot on. I wouldnt judge too much by the voting. All struggling teams fans want their team to pick up all waived youngsters.
The comments were great but remember they also have to waive someone to pick him up. The Knicks aren't in that situation. You aren't getting a perfect player off of waivers. I think Phil is waiting for 10 day contracts but Wroten might be worth using that last spot on.
CrushAlot wrote:knickscity wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I googled to see when Wroten clears waivers. He clears at 5:00 today. 80% pgBlazers fans that participated in a poll on a blog want the blazers to submit a waiver claim on Wroten.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/12/24/10...
Take a read in the comments section of that article. Normally I see alot of homersim and trolling, but those comments are highly spot on. I wouldnt judge too much by the voting. All struggling teams fans want their team to pick up all waived youngsters.
The comments were great but remember they also have to waive someone to pick him up. The Knicks aren't in that situation. You aren't getting a perfect player off of waivers. I think Phil is waiting for 10 day contracts but Wroten might be worth using that last spot on.
You'll likely get a heavily flawed player off waivers which is exactly what he is. His skillset is literally a dim a dozen. His deficiencies is an easy hard pass. He doesnt offer anything we dont already have in Grant. It's rare to see a team bolster the bench when there glaring needs is a starter. The Knicks need to be developing Grant first.
I will say one thing that is interesting....I do follow twitter and his avy against the Knicks fwiw.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:This notion that the Triangle doesn't require a guard drive is a bit off. It's most certainly needed since the very first goal is to push the ball and look for early scoring opportunities!!! This is rule one! Cutting off the side Triangle is important. Dribble hand off in the Pinch Post 2 man game is huge. Give n Go and PnR to a lesser degree but many times in this offense the need for a guard to handle the ball and or drive after receiving the pass is there. Sure the PG isn't always ball dominant but when they do get the ball they still need the same penetration and finishing skills.
It really doesnt require it, not that it couldn't use a boost of it. I recall just a few games ago that Fisher even made mention that something like the pick and roll which he recognizes is an advantage doesnt want to use it as much, but rather "play the right way". We have a few players who want to operate in transition, but our offense is not that type, it's half court oriented featuring a jump shot, so in a way those players are neutered.We dont push the ball and it isnt just because of Calderon, its the design of the offense. Any player with dribbling skills and court vision can push the tempo. Lopez stops near the three point line on every set because he knows thats where the ball will be delivered every trip down.
Thats by design.
BULL ISH!!! The offense isn't stopping this team from pushing the tempo! It's mostly a roster make up issue. There is LITERALLY no rule in the Triangle that ever prevents the team from pushing the ball. IT's in FACT quite the opposite!!!
Phil Jackson:
1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.
Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
I hate to say this but you don't really seem to know exactly what the team is supposed to be doing! There is more than the half court aspect of the offense. It's mostly due to the players more than some limitation of the system. Just because we haven't been pushing the ball as much as we should doesn't mean that the offense is forcing a slower pace.
i think wroten would fit on this roster on offense... but other than a steal here and a block there... didnt see much from him on defense. but if carmelo and derrick williams can become better defenders under fisher...
