Knicks coach Derek Fisher said because his club is coming off a 17-win season, he can’t consider it a failure if they don’t make the playoffs,
believing the “end result” is not what’s most essential.With the Knicks about to face two teams they need to pass to nab a playoff berth — Boston on Tuesday night at the Garden and Detroit on the road Thursday — Fisher was asked about the urgency of the games.
Fisher said the guidelines of a successful season may not fall on whether the Knicks snare the last playoff seed at No. 8. He also said the team’s success in free agency this coming summer ultimately will be more critical.
File this into what loser coaches say. Wonder if Dolan will intervene at some point, or will let Phil continue to steer this ship.
We really can't move forward with Fisher as coach, he's all rah rah, no X and O's or coaching in his blood.
This "leader of men" really isn't doing a good job. Roster sucks a little less than last year, but some of his coaching decisions, substitions, and "hunches" are just plain terrible.
Let's see...Seraphim hasn't played in 10 games, let's throw him out there and see what happens! 
Scrub Zeller is killing us, let's insert KP, who's probabaly the Knicks best overall defender, when the lead is 10 points!
Just a horrible coach, no matter how you slice it.
I agree that it's about making progress. And the team has undeniably made progress this season. As long as the team continues to show good signs and win about half their games, I think that's a big improvement from last season.
Playoffs would be great and a lot of fun, but coming off 17 wins - if they win 40 games and miss the playoffs, I don't think you can call that season a failure. It's a step forward.
I could care less about the playoffs this year but I really not crazy about the process.
mreinman wrote:I could care less about the playoffs this year but I really not crazy about the process.
The process looked better when they had a real PG running the show. Jose has his limitations, but he can run the offense.
Without him, they look lost.
Fans who cannot accept rebuild and associated multi-year losing still looking for scapegoat.
This fine as Fish paid to be the one. Comes with the territory.
I think he is doing OK job for second year coach with half-baked roster.
There is enough talent to make the playoffs IMO. Since we dont have a first round pick, and we aren't that far off of the 8th spot, it sounds defeatist to already be throwing in the towel on making the playoffs.
Ive seen too many games where it looked like Fisher was more concerned about process than winning games. If you aren't putting your team in the best position to win night in and night out then the process needs reevaluation. If Fisher wants to build a winning atmosphere around KP, Fisher should talk less about process, and more about making the playoffs.
GustavBahler wrote:There is enough talent to make the playoffs IMO. Since we dont have a first round pick, and we aren't that far off of the 8th spot, it sounds defeatist to already be throwing in the towel on making the playoffs. Ive seen too many games where it looked like Fisher was more concerned about process than winning games. If you aren't putting your team in the best position to win night in and night out then the process needs reevaluation. If Fisher wants to build a winning atmosphere around KP, Fisher should talk less about process, and more about making the playoffs.
What talent?
Melo... KP... what else?
Not much more than last year.
arkrud wrote:Fans who cannot accept rebuild and associated multi-year losing still looking for scapegoat.
This fine as Fish paid to be the one. Comes with the territory.
I think he is doing OK job for second year coach with half-baked roster.
Im not sure what players we are going forward with other than KP and I guess melo and Rolo--do you? Jerian Grant will be here and we can hope he improves. But the way the team is set up--there is little stability? So how is it a rebuild? Its a retool and could explode
arkrud wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is enough talent to make the playoffs IMO. Since we dont have a first round pick, and we aren't that far off of the 8th spot, it sounds defeatist to already be throwing in the towel on making the playoffs. Ive seen too many games where it looked like Fisher was more concerned about process than winning games. If you aren't putting your team in the best position to win night in and night out then the process needs reevaluation. If Fisher wants to build a winning atmosphere around KP, Fisher should talk less about process, and more about making the playoffs.
What talent?
Melo... KP... what else?
Not much more than last year.
Melo was out for half a season last year. Melo (playing his best ball) KP (ROY candidate) Lance Thomas (maybe 6th man of the year or most improved player) DWill who has been great off the bench. Lopez who has been the best low post defender we have had in eons. There is enough talent on this squad to make the playoffs.
mreinman wrote:I could care less about the playoffs this year but I really not crazy about the process.
That's because the real question is are we spending our money wisely? From maxing Melo out, to trading for Calderon to overpaying Lopez(albeit he is somewhat earning it with his play of late Eventhough he is far from a defensive stopper). These moves lead to us acquiring flawed discount rack players like AA, KOQ & Serafin. When we should either held on to our cap flexibility for guys like Conley/Batum/Derozan or acquire 1st round picks to hopefully land a stud guard.
Make no mistake. These moves were made with the intention of making the playoffs. You don't spend all you cap money on stop gaps. Lance Thomas is a stop gap player. He costed us nothing.
Basically we will be looking at a 3rd reset next year and the only guys who are a lock to be here are Melo, KP, Galloway & most likely Lopez. Willie will come on the cheap. Maybe Thanasis improves and the. You better hope those FA's are attracted to our situation. If not I would start trading everyone not named KP for high 1st rd picks before I start spending cap space on more stop gap(in other words garbage players) I don't want to hear for the 4th time that the 2017 free agency will be crucial for this team.
In other words, Fisher is not great and has a lot to learn but this roster is garbage especially at guard. We didn't do enough with our cap space and it pains me to say it but it falls on Phil. But he's Phil so I will continue to support him because I truly believe he will get it right eventually. There is no one else I would trust to start building a Pops/Riley winning culture and front office.
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:I could care less about the playoffs this year but I really not crazy about the process.
That's because the real question is are we spending our money wisely? From maxing Melo out, to trading for Calderon to overpaying Lopez(albeit he is somewhat earning it with his play of late Eventhough he is far from a defensive stopper). These moves lead to us acquiring flawed discount rack players like AA, KOQ & Serafin. When we should either held on to our cap flexibility for guys like Conley/Batum/Derozan or acquire 1st round picks to hopefully land a stud guard.
Make no mistake. These moves were made with the intention of making the playoffs. You don't spend all you cap money on stop gaps. Lance Thomas is a stop gap player. He costed us nothing.
Basically we will be looking at a 3rd reset next year and the only guys who are a lock to be here are Melo, KP, Galloway & most likely Lopez. Willie will come on the cheap. Maybe Thanasis improves and the. You better hope those FA's are attracted to our situation. If not I would start trading everyone not named KP for high 1st rd picks before I start spending cap space on more stop gap(in other words garbage players)
In other words, Fisher is not great and has a lot to learn but this roster is garbage especially at guard. We didn't do enough with our cap space and it pains me to say it but it falls on Phil. But he's Phil so I will continue to support him because I truly believe he will get it right eventually. There is no one else I would trust to start building a Pops/Riley winning culture and front office.
Where would you have spent money this past offseason?
Doesn't matter what I would have done. I just hope in the future we spend our cap money more wisely or sit on the money for when the right players become available. Problem is after maxing out Melo whether it was Phil or Dolan's doing the pressure to contend in a few years became immense. Arkrud's point about fans not having the patience to go through some losing years would be 100% correct if we weren't maxed out and trying to win sometime in the near future but we are. We don't have a very attractive roster and we don't have a draft pick this year. So what do we have on this roster other than KP to be patient about? Melo's contract is up in 3yrs. How many more years of patience do you fell the fanbase needs to give? Personally I'm fine with giving them another 5-10yrs as long as there is clear progress being made. I think many would again that the progression hasn't been all that clear 3yrs later.
GustavBahler wrote:arkrud wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is enough talent to make the playoffs IMO. Since we dont have a first round pick, and we aren't that far off of the 8th spot, it sounds defeatist to already be throwing in the towel on making the playoffs. Ive seen too many games where it looked like Fisher was more concerned about process than winning games. If you aren't putting your team in the best position to win night in and night out then the process needs reevaluation. If Fisher wants to build a winning atmosphere around KP, Fisher should talk less about process, and more about making the playoffs.
What talent?
Melo... KP... what else?
Not much more than last year.
Melo was out for half a season last year. Melo (playing his best ball) KP (ROY candidate) Lance Thomas (maybe 6th man of the year or most improved player) DWill who has been great off the bench. Lopez who has been the best low post defender we have had in eons. There is enough talent on this squad to make the playoffs.
Yea but until we get better guards the playoffs isn't a lock and Fisher won't be judged until we get better guards. Boston is in the mix because they have productive young guard play. How long have we been saying we need a PG? Since Jeremy Lin and for years prior
shouldn't the 'process' be about winning and getting to the play offs.
Are there bonus points for playing 'the right way' but losing?
franco12 wrote:shouldn't the 'process' be about winning and getting to the play offs.Are there bonus points for playing 'the right way' but losing?
Only if we had our draft pick this season...
franco12 wrote:shouldn't the 'process' be about winning and getting to the play offs.Are there bonus points for playing 'the right way' but losing?
When you spend all your cap money yes that is suppose to be the process. We have to be more responsible with how we spend our cap money. We've should've learned from Layden, Isiah & Walsh & Grunwald. Those guys were clearly under immense pressure from Dolan leading to Mcdyess, Marbury, Curry, Amare & Bargnani. With the exception of maxing out Melo Phil is under no pressure from Dolan so I don't understand some of these moves. They wreak of executive inexperience. Some of these moves are Layden moves.
Layden was in over his head in New York at first with the Andersoneisleyspoon & Mcdyess moves but then he had us trending in the right direction when he acquired all these guys that fit together like KVH, Mutombo, Doleac, Frank Williams. Unfortunately he was forced to trade Spree. Then Isiah takes over and trades for Marbruy. The Knicks are playing phenomenal basketball. Great chemistry between Marbury & KVH. Their familiarity from the Nets days when they were putting up 28 & 19 a piece. Mike Doleac playing above his limitations. He was Lance Thomas for that team and old man Mutombo who even at that age lead the league in blocks. Setting the Knicks block record with that 10 block game. Frank Williams having a linsanity stretch of games and rugged tough perimeter defense. Then genius Isiah trades all these guys for Tim Thomas & Nazr to become "younger and athletic" and the rest is history and cemented in every basketball Handbook/History/How to not run your franchise into the ground book.
Any I am looking for that kind of progress from this team. Playing team ball, playing for one another, competing EVERY SINGLE NIGHT(Boston, Nets, Hornets loses). Then you add the right players around your core group. Keep you draft picks and integrate them into your winning culture like San Antonio.
This team has too many holes especially at guard, no cap space or picks so it's hard to find any clarity on its progression to date
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:I could care less about the playoffs this year but I really not crazy about the process.
That's because the real question is are we spending our money wisely? From maxing Melo out, to trading for Calderon to overpaying Lopez(albeit he is somewhat earning it with his play of late Eventhough he is far from a defensive stopper). These moves lead to us acquiring flawed discount rack players like AA, KOQ & Serafin. When we should either held on to our cap flexibility for guys like Conley/Batum/Derozan or acquire 1st round picks to hopefully land a stud guard.
Make no mistake. These moves were made with the intention of making the playoffs. You don't spend all you cap money on stop gaps. Lance Thomas is a stop gap player. He costed us nothing.
Basically we will be looking at a 3rd reset next year and the only guys who are a lock to be here are Melo, KP, Galloway & most likely Lopez. Willie will come on the cheap. Maybe Thanasis improves and the. You better hope those FA's are attracted to our situation. If not I would start trading everyone not named KP for high 1st rd picks before I start spending cap space on more stop gap(in other words garbage players) I don't want to hear for the 4th time that the 2017 free agency will be crucial for this team.
In other words, Fisher is not great and has a lot to learn but this roster is garbage especially at guard. We didn't do enough with our cap space and it pains me to say it but it falls on Phil. But he's Phil so I will continue to support him because I truly believe he will get it right eventually. There is no one else I would trust to start building a Pops/Riley winning culture and front office.
Is the roster garbage, is the system garbage or not condusive to the players, is the coaching staff garbage, who consistently go away from things that work.
If you think your going to attract anyone of an elite status, to a failing system, you have your priorities mixed up.
They'll be more 2nd tier "not so good players" to come this off season. I mean little less then 12 months ago, no elite talent gave the knicks a 2nd look.
Rookie coach who hasn't shown much improvement is worried about the process..Fisher will be fired or he's not the attraction that FA will coming running to play for.
gunsnewing wrote:GustavBahler wrote:arkrud wrote:GustavBahler wrote:There is enough talent to make the playoffs IMO. Since we dont have a first round pick, and we aren't that far off of the 8th spot, it sounds defeatist to already be throwing in the towel on making the playoffs. Ive seen too many games where it looked like Fisher was more concerned about process than winning games. If you aren't putting your team in the best position to win night in and night out then the process needs reevaluation. If Fisher wants to build a winning atmosphere around KP, Fisher should talk less about process, and more about making the playoffs.
What talent?
Melo... KP... what else?
Not much more than last year.
Melo was out for half a season last year. Melo (playing his best ball) KP (ROY candidate) Lance Thomas (maybe 6th man of the year or most improved player) DWill who has been great off the bench. Lopez who has been the best low post defender we have had in eons. There is enough talent on this squad to make the playoffs.
Yea but until we get better guards the playoffs isn't a lock and Fisher won't be judged until we get better guards. Boston is in the mix because they have productive young guard play. How long have we been saying we need a PG? Since Jeremy Lin and for years prior
Never said the playoffs were a lock. Only that there is enough talent to make them if Fisher makes it a priority. His statement about "process" shows that the playoffs clearly aren't a priority.
Why make the playoffs when we wouldnt go far? Because we have no draft pick so there isn't a golden parachute for losing this season. The best thing we can do for KP is to foster a winning environment from his rookie season onward. To do this you actually have to make winning a priority. Fisher unfortunately sounds like a career civil servant who isnt worried about job security. Thats more appropriate for a coach who has accomplished a good deal more in this league.
this franchise is rebuilding. it's nice to win as many games as possible, but in the end, we have many young pieces that need time and development, which is more important right now. we're not winning a championship this year, so to me player development is much more important.
