Knicks · We signed Tony Wroten to 3 year contract... (page 17)
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
I'm a Mets fan and saw Alderson come in with no "feel" for NY and let go of Reyes Beltran Dickey etc and those first 3 years were as ugly as this-and a lot of little moves didn't work etc- but the culture changed and the draft picks stopped leaving -
and younger players with roles on a bad team got better through tough times--
I think the reality is having Melo and KP level talent is the hardest thing to get. The 2nd hardest thing is stability in a team. The Rolo KP Melo frontcourt in year 2 is going to be much better than year one. They are all willing passers and able scorers. Jose and AA would both be ok off the bench on a winning team- our problem is w T Wroten or J Grant being good enough to start and getting a better SG in free agency -
We always want a "break up" when it's not working out- Fire the coach/GM or trade the star- That's where winning starts.
I don't have any good vibe or fan empathy with Rambis but I like Phil's vibe w maintaining the "Phil"osophy-
The plan or the triangle is not the issue- The issue is the NBA is hard and the Knicks were not going to win with Tyson and JR- Phil would not have kept Melo if he thought he didn't have value- anyway it's been a rough year and I don't know about next year either but changing the system is not the answer, IMHO
93BUICK wrote:Melo and KP have bought in- The two most talented players on the team- As fans we have to bite this year again and watch our draft pick go away - but there is a lot of BS in sports when the stars are bitching and KP and Melo have been very cool- I think that is huge and will continue to be next year- it didn't "break" after our bad streak startedI'm a Mets fan and saw Alderson come in with no "feel" for NY and let go of Reyes Beltran Dickey etc and those first 3 years were as ugly as this-and a lot of little moves didn't work etc- but the culture changed and the draft picks stopped leaving -
and younger players with roles on a bad team got better through tough times--I think the reality is having Melo and KP level talent is the hardest thing to get. The 2nd hardest thing is stability in a team. The Rolo KP Melo frontcourt in year 2 is going to be much better than year one. They are all willing passers and able scorers. Jose and AA would both be ok off the bench on a winning team- our problem is w T Wroten or J Grant being good enough to start and getting a better SG in free agency -
We always want a "break up" when it's not working out- Fire the coach/GM or trade the star- That's where winning starts.
I don't have any good vibe or fan empathy with Rambis but I like Phil's vibe w maintaining the "Phil"osophy-
The plan or the triangle is not the issue- The issue is the NBA is hard and the Knicks were not going to win with Tyson and JR- Phil would not have kept Melo if he thought he didn't have value- anyway it's been a rough year and I don't know about next year either but changing the system is not the answer, IMHO
Good post. I agree for the most part. Not thrilled about the coaching situation or Phil's approach to the PG position, but I like most everything else.
nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
93BUICK wrote:BTW 17 pages!!
Your prediction of 12 was way off......cut out the off topic replies and 12 might be accurate. I think it more like 9
mreinman wrote:why would you say he is a bad gm? He hasn't traded any picks and he acquired a first when most said that couldn't be done. He hasn't reacted and made crazy trades to chase the 8th seed and disregard the future. Not sure what you were expecting in year 2.nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
I disagree about Phil caring about the Triangle more than the success of the Knicks. He believes it will ultimately help the Knicks to succeed.
Free Agents that we're most likely to go after will take the money and be happy to have a job. Who are you worried about scaring off just because we run Triangle? Only ones that would care are ball dominant PG's.
of course he cares more about the triangle. That's obvious. The question is if he will be forced to modify his position.
and you may look at everything positively but the triangle is getting killed in the press and in no way is that a good thing. Can spin it no matter how hard you try.
PLEASE! The media are a bunch of clowns. Most don't know a damn thing about how to win in the NBA. They just follow whoever is hot which is the easiest way to sound smart. Just front run. The fact is that this is a team build in progress. The inconsistency is unfortunately part of the process.Sixers have been rebuilding longer than the Knicks and how is that working for them and their modern offense? The Wiz, Magic and Bucks are all down there with the Knicks. What happened to all their progress? Perhaps they should switch to the Triangle. We can point to the fact that we have the weakest Guard performance but what are those teams excuses.
As these players remain in this system they will grow in their BB IQ and Chemistry. You can see signs of this process happening even with the losing. Melo, RoLo and KP are making progress. KOQ and DWILL have been looking more comfortable. Now we need to continue to develop our young guards and upgrade the backcourt as well.
at least the sixers are rebuilding and have a billion chances coming up. We have wroten! well not yet anyway ...
yeah - we are in much better shape than philly.
Have the Sixers ever gone for the young guy with the most upside that was injured? The easy move would have been to sign Frazier or Mc Cullum. Both are known as very high character guys that would be easy fits. What were you hoping for with the 15th spot?
nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
If Wroten does end up playing well for us next year it will be a huge help but he'll also be looking for a new contract and will be a free agent so this could actually go wrong for us if he has a good year next year.
I'm not that worried about that. It would be a good problem to have IMO. I want him to play so well that he's a sensation. LOL i'll worry about re-signing him after he's a big success. We are a great city to be in when the team is winning. I think we'd have a good shot at keeping him in the event he played so well that he raised his value.
It's obviously nothing to worry about right now but we've been through it before and lost out to other teams with more money and a young guy like Wroten who just sat out just about a whole year with no interest from teams will be taking the best offer he gets.
mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
Ummmmmmmm yes that it what you said and it's a dumb thing to say so again....he cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. To say he cares way more about the triangle than winning is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you don't know Phil right?? You've never spoken or hung out with him right?? So that's a dumb thing to say then.
93BUICK wrote:Melo and KP have bought in- The two most talented players on the team- As fans we have to bite this year again and watch our draft pick go away - but there is a lot of BS in sports when the stars are bitching and KP and Melo have been very cool- I think that is huge and will continue to be next year- it didn't "break" after our bad streak startedI'm a Mets fan and saw Alderson come in with no "feel" for NY and let go of Reyes Beltran Dickey etc and those first 3 years were as ugly as this-and a lot of little moves didn't work etc- but the culture changed and the draft picks stopped leaving -
and younger players with roles on a bad team got better through tough times--I think the reality is having Melo and KP level talent is the hardest thing to get. The 2nd hardest thing is stability in a team. The Rolo KP Melo frontcourt in year 2 is going to be much better than year one. They are all willing passers and able scorers. Jose and AA would both be ok off the bench on a winning team- our problem is w T Wroten or J Grant being good enough to start and getting a better SG in free agency -
We always want a "break up" when it's not working out- Fire the coach/GM or trade the star- That's where winning starts.
I don't have any good vibe or fan empathy with Rambis but I like Phil's vibe w maintaining the "Phil"osophy-
The plan or the triangle is not the issue- The issue is the NBA is hard and the Knicks were not going to win with Tyson and JR- Phil would not have kept Melo if he thought he didn't have value- anyway it's been a rough year and I don't know about next year either but changing the system is not the answer, IMHO
I'm a huge Mets fan and Sandy letting J.Reyes go for nothing bothers me to this day but he got great returns for Beltran and Dickey in Syndegaard, D'Arnaud and Wheeler. Don't think i have a point but just love my Mets and love where we're at right now but Harvey, DeGrom and Matz we have O.Minaya to thank for.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
We agree on this one and for me the jury is still out on Phil but i'm still standing behind him at this point but he better get it right this off season.
CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:why would you say he is a bad gm? He hasn't traded any picks and he acquired a first when most said that couldn't be done. He hasn't reacted and made crazy trades to chase the 8th seed and disregard the future. Not sure what you were expecting in year 2.nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
He would say that because he'd rather have a GM that didn't give Melo anything but a one way ticket to Chicago or Houston.
He would also say that because he think's Hinkie is a great GM. I'd much rather be the Sixers and setting records for futility for the past 5 years, wouldn't you?
At least the Sixers keep their draft picks and then trade them away after they have the guy for a year or two...for more draft picks...
jrodmc wrote:CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:why would you say he is a bad gm? He hasn't traded any picks and he acquired a first when most said that couldn't be done. He hasn't reacted and made crazy trades to chase the 8th seed and disregard the future. Not sure what you were expecting in year 2.nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
He would say that because he'd rather have a GM that didn't give Melo anything but a one way ticket to Chicago or Houston.
He would also say that because he think's Hinkie is a great GM. I'd much rather be the Sixers and setting records for futility for the past 5 years, wouldn't you?At least the Sixers keep their draft picks and then trade them away after they have the guy for a year or two...for more draft picks...
Not a Hinkie fan, and had a big chuckle when the Sixers saw fit to find an "adult" executive to watch over him, but Jackson did seem to have signed Wroten to a Hinkie type contract that gives us some good flexibility.
I'm no fan of Wroten, but hopefully he works out, though if he doesn't, he's easy enough to cut with little financial damage.
Low risk, low reward. Even if he pans out, he'll be a part time rotational player with limited long term impact on the franchise. He's forever a NBDL quality player...it's who he is.
This team needs a true long term successor to the point guard position from old man Calderon. Coming off ACL surgery, cut by the Sixers, Tony Wroten is not that guy.
CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:why would you say he is a bad gm? He hasn't traded any picks and he acquired a first when most said that couldn't be done. He hasn't reacted and made crazy trades to chase the 8th seed and disregard the future. Not sure what you were expecting in year 2.nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
The entire argument is stupid. How stupid for media and fans to try and tell one of the greatest of all time how to do this. This is the system Phil knows best and won record amounts of games with. He knows what kind of players to go after a lot better which makes the task of adding players a bit clearer. Building teams is hard enough.
Not every coach has a fully developed system they use. Almost no GM/President does. This is Phil's thing. It's how he teaches the game and builds this team. I still haven't heard a valid argument for him not to use the Triangle.
In the end it's gonna come down to the talent he can assemble and develop. All of which will be trained in this system. Until he changes his mind or leaves.
winning a crazy number of games with all time greats and being a great coach does not mean that he can win many games here being a bad gm with crappy players running a geriatric system.
so was this how you "expected" it to be at this point? Or were you "expecting" a bit more?
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that Wroten had many medical needs and referred to him as getting a chance like Ricky Ledo.Phil clearly wants to have a big guard with penetrating ability and defensive presence. We saw it with Shved and his taking a look at Ledo and drafting Jerian. Now Wroten. Wroten has a lot of defensive potential which is something Phil always wants. It's a very clear pattern that shows what he's looking for.
I don't see him going for broke chasing a big name PG. It's as he explained not necessary. He's had success with big Guards that can handle the ball, get to the rim and defend. The ball dominant PG isn't necessary in his view. I'm sure he'd play one if he had that guy but he's not going out of his way to find one.
But again, he didn't need a big name point guard only because he had MJ and Pippen and Kobe Shaq/P.Gasol and that's the only reason he didn't need one. He needs to open his damn eyes cause Melo isn't MJ or Kobe and not really even close to either of them.All of this is overstated! As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!
Phil will be making more upgrades to the roster this summer. Hopefully we can catch a break and Wroten can end up being a useful player. As a Knick fan I'm pullin for the kid. Cheap talent is gonna be important going forward.
not sure you realize but none of your arguments would hold to any numbers test. They are so flawed and full of hope and wishes but they have GAPING holes.
All of this is overstated? MJ, Kobe, Shaq etc ... and you come back with "As KP and others develop we'll have the needed talent it's already evident even in the losses that as our young players improve it will make a huge difference!" ???? really nix?
You're jumping to Title contention. That's not what I'm talking about. We don't have to have the equivalent of Kobe/Shaq next year in order to make significant progress as a team. There are stages and this team has to go thru the stages of growth in order to get to the Title Contender stage. No one is saying we're gonna just skip to that.
That's what makes it hard to talk with you. You make any comment into a farce by skipping all the way to Title contender when we're just talking about the team getting good enough to make the playoffs first. It's the usual primary goal when building a team.
yes. And most would agree that the triangle is not the best way to get there especially with mediocre players. You are the one who keeps making this much broader than the simplistic issue at hand. Geeeez we have 15 pages and counting getting excited about Tony Wroten. How sad is that for our current state?
I don't think it's a bad idea to stick with the Triangle long term. The longer these players are developed in the same system the better they'll get. It would make no sense to abandon it at this point. They are making progress. They will have a huge head start next season with more players returning that know the system.
and therein lies the essence of our disagreement.
I think that its a terrible idea to stick to the triangle and to force our next coach to have to be a triangle guy.
I think that it will hurt us in free agency and unfortunately, phil cares about the triangle way more than he cares about the knicks.
Well that's a kind of dumb thing to say. He cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. My thing is that when Phil's gone whoever takes over even if it's S.Mills will most likely move away from the triangle unless it's Luke Walton that is brought in next year and he's showing big improvements or if it's Rambis that gets the full time gig and he's winning, but if we're not much further along than we are now then the triangle will go out the door with Phil.
lol that was even dumber.
I did not say that he does not care that the knicks win using the triangle. I said that he cares much more about the triangle than the knicks.
Ummmmmmmm yes that it what you said and it's a dumb thing to say so again....he cares about the Knicks winning using the triangle. To say he cares way more about the triangle than winning is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you don't know Phil right?? You've never spoken or hung out with him right?? So that's a dumb thing to say then.
I think that you are being a bit too dumb here and you may be having a hard time getting the post. Its ok. I can set up a puppet show over a webex if you'd like.
ChuckBuck wrote:I see Tony Wroten in the same vein as Derrick Williams was. A Phil Jackson dice roll special.Low risk, low reward. Even if he pans out, he'll be a part time rotational player with limited long term impact on the franchise. He's forever a NBDL quality player...it's who he is.
This team needs a true long term successor to the point guard position from old man Calderon. Coming off ACL surgery, cut by the Sixers, Tony Wroten is not that guy.
Agree....Wroten is hopefully not expecting to be the long term sollution. But you wouldn't think so with 17 pages. Wroten is like Lue Williams.....He's a special talent that makes plays, regardless of the system. The triangle doesn't work well with guards that over think. But if you have confidence in your abilities like Wroten and other dynamic players, you will survive in any system. Wroten is a solid bench player to have. We need as much cheap talent as possible to fill out the roster, especially if we are trying to give out another max contract. Or two players to equal max......Basically, Phil is going to spend that money and over pay for talent. Thats what most bad teams have to do. So guys like Wroten is perfect......Hungry and low cost......compared to his talent and potential impact. He has talent to be a starter, paid like the 15th man.......We need more moves like this.
blkexec wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:I see Tony Wroten in the same vein as Derrick Williams was. A Phil Jackson dice roll special.Low risk, low reward. Even if he pans out, he'll be a part time rotational player with limited long term impact on the franchise. He's forever a NBDL quality player...it's who he is.
This team needs a true long term successor to the point guard position from old man Calderon. Coming off ACL surgery, cut by the Sixers, Tony Wroten is not that guy.
Agree....Wroten is hopefully not expecting to be the long term sollution. But you wouldn't think so with 17 pages. Wroten is like Lue Williams.....He's a special talent that makes plays, regardless of the system. The triangle doesn't work well with guards that over think. But if you have confidence in your abilities like Wroten and other dynamic players, you will survive in any system. Wroten is a solid bench player to have. We need as much cheap talent as possible to fill out the roster, especially if we are trying to give out another max contract. Or two players to equal max......Basically, Phil is going to spend that money and over pay for talent. Thats what most bad teams have to do. So guys like Wroten is perfect......Hungry and low cost......compared to his talent and potential impact. He has talent to be a starter, paid like the 15th man.......We need more moves like this.
man I can practically see Gallo thinking about everything he does out there. Killing his game and awful to watch.
blkexec wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:I see Tony Wroten in the same vein as Derrick Williams was. A Phil Jackson dice roll special.Low risk, low reward. Even if he pans out, he'll be a part time rotational player with limited long term impact on the franchise. He's forever a NBDL quality player...it's who he is.
This team needs a true long term successor to the point guard position from old man Calderon. Coming off ACL surgery, cut by the Sixers, Tony Wroten is not that guy.
Agree....Wroten is hopefully not expecting to be the long term sollution. But you wouldn't think so with 17 pages. Wroten is like Lue Williams.....He's a special talent that makes plays, regardless of the system. The triangle doesn't work well with guards that over think. But if you have confidence in your abilities like Wroten and other dynamic players, you will survive in any system. Wroten is a solid bench player to have. We need as much cheap talent as possible to fill out the roster, especially if we are trying to give out another max contract. Or two players to equal max......Basically, Phil is going to spend that money and over pay for talent. Thats what most bad teams have to do. So guys like Wroten is perfect......Hungry and low cost......compared to his talent and potential impact. He has talent to be a starter, paid like the 15th man.......We need more moves like this.
with this argument, should we have seen guys like early get PT?