Knicks · Walton says he won't run the Triangle in LA, it's not appropriate for the personnel he has. (page 1)

crzymdups @ 5/1/2016 2:52 PM


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 3:02 PM
does mr. walton have 11 rings? He should shut the phuck up.
fishmike @ 5/1/2016 3:12 PM
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie
nixluva @ 5/1/2016 3:12 PM
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

This is silly since Phil is building the team with the Triangle as the blueprint. This team is just a couple of players away from being able to function well in the Triangle. The Lakers are a smaller team overall and they have guards that need the ball to be effective.

It means nothing that LA won't be looking to run the Triangle. As we've already established Spurs use it and they're pretty successful playing with 2 bigs. Knicks are similarly built.

What pisses me off is that the Bulls and Lakers played some of the most exciting ball and NO ONE was complaining about the Triangle.

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 3:25 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

This is silly since Phil is building the team with the Triangle as the blueprint. This team is just a couple of players away from being able to function well in the Triangle. The Lakers are a smaller team overall and they have guards that need the ball to be effective.

It means nothing that LA won't be looking to run the Triangle. As we've already established Spurs use it and they're pretty successful playing with 2 bigs. Knicks are similarly built.

What pisses me off is that the Bulls and Lakers played some of the most exciting ball and NO ONE was complaining about the Triangle.

It does not mean "nothing" that walton, another phil disciple will not run the triangle. And your guard excuse is pathetic at best. They have guards who need the ball so the triangle won't be a good choice for them? REALLY?

The spurs don't run any offense, they run what pop and the analytics teams decide will work best with their personnel.

lakers, bulls = jordan/pippen - kobe/shaq/gasol .... rinse repeat reload repurge

crzymdups @ 5/1/2016 3:25 PM
Nixluva, I'm sure you wouldn't have mentioned it if Walton were like "triangle is the best system ever, of course I will run it in la."
crzymdups @ 5/1/2016 3:34 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie

Dude he was a coach in LA, part of Phil's staff who ran the triangle. Not sure what you are saying.

yellowboy90 @ 5/1/2016 3:37 PM
It is okay that he doesn't want to use the triangle but his excuse for not using it doesn't really hold water. I am pretty sure most triangle defenders would go on and on about how Clarkson and/or Russell would fit awesomely in the triangle. Two big combo guards would not work well in the triangle goes against the triangle principles.

Also, the Lakers are a rebuilding franchise they can go and get players that fit whatever offense Luke wants the Lakers to run. So, I just think this is a nice excuse for Luke not wanting/being able to run the triangle in LA. Maybe the owners are against the triangle and has taken it out of Luke's hand?

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 3:51 PM
but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

fishmike @ 5/1/2016 3:55 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie

Dude he was a coach in LA, part of Phil's staff who ran the triangle. Not sure what you are saying.

right he was a coach in LA. Knows that team's ownership and FO. You implied he didn't want to the coach the Knicks because of the triangle. Isnt that why it was your first statement after posting that tweet? I am not the triangle police, but there is a real fixation around here on it around here. Its LA vs. NY in the winters. He's familiar with that FO. I mean the triangle is the reason he didn't come to the Knicks? Wow man. Guy is offered his dream job and takes it. How about that?
fishmike @ 5/1/2016 3:58 PM
mreinman wrote:but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

why risky? Derozan's midrange game and ability to get to the basket are triangle fits. Perfect fits really. Is Derozan not the best FA guard on the market?
mreinman @ 5/1/2016 3:59 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie

Dude he was a coach in LA, part of Phil's staff who ran the triangle. Not sure what you are saying.

right he was a coach in LA. Knows that team's ownership and FO. You implied he didn't want to the coach the Knicks because of the triangle. Isnt that why it was your first statement after posting that tweet? I am not the triangle police, but there is a real fixation around here on it around here. Its LA vs. NY in the winters. He's familiar with that FO. I mean the triangle is the reason he didn't come to the Knicks? Wow man. Guy is offered his dream job and takes it. How about that?

The triangle is not a fixation around here, its a fixation everywhere - and its losing badly right now.

Walton took the job primarily because it was LA and a much better foundation. Working for Phil and having the triangle strangled around the coaches neck is just icing on the laker cake.

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 4:03 PM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

why risky? Derozan's midrange game and ability to get to the basket are triangle fits. Perfect fits really. Is Derozan not the best FA guard on the market?

His defense is questionable as well as his shot selection. He seems like a player who does not have a high IQ when it counts. Hence his nick name.

With that being said, if phil were to go all in with a starphuck move with the belief that he can mold another perfect player then Derozen may be the best option out there. He and Melo in the same offense could be the leagues biggest team black hole disaster if phil can't force the team concept and ball movement and both of them. If phil was the coach then I would feel better about it.

Vmart @ 5/1/2016 4:04 PM
Walton will quickly realize he can't run much of anything with what he has.
mreinman @ 5/1/2016 4:12 PM
Vmart wrote:Walton will quickly realize he can't run much of anything with what he has.

watch and don't be shocked when you are wrong.

Vmart @ 5/1/2016 4:21 PM
mreinman wrote:
Vmart wrote:Walton will quickly realize he can't run much of anything with what he has.

watch and don't be shocked when you are wrong.

I'm always willing acknowledge when I'm wrong. Besides they have a nice high pick to build around this year who I think will be the next.

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 4:28 PM
Vmart wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Vmart wrote:Walton will quickly realize he can't run much of anything with what he has.

watch and don't be shocked when you are wrong.

I'm always willing acknowledge when I'm wrong. Besides they have a nice high pick to build around this year who I think will be the next.

that is a great opportunity with lots of young talent and cap. Also, they NEEEEEEEED to land in the top 3. If they don't, that would be a pretty painful start.

nixluva @ 5/1/2016 4:59 PM
mreinman wrote:but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

Your posts are getting worse! Now you're sounding like a Troll again. Why call the Knicks shitty???
You're so F'n sure of yourself but you aren't allowing time for Phil to actually finish doing his job. He hasn't named a coach, hasn't gone thru Free Agency this summer but you've made up your mind already. You don't see how flawed that is.

The Triangle or Triple Post Offense is an evolved system that is full of many different looks. It's been tweaked over many Decades. It's not just one thing. Those who are dissing it mostly don't really know shit about it. They THINK they know but they don't.

There are many different ways to play the game and the Triangle is just one. It's been used effectively at EVERY LEVEL of basketball. Used to win Titles in college and the NBA so what are you complaining about.

As for Phil building a team, he hasn't been building this team for very long despite the way you keep trying to present the facts. When is it ever easy to build a team unless you do a Super Friends like Lebron, Bosh n Wade or KG, Allen n Pierce. It's almost always hard to do. Much harder when you don't have all your picks. Based on what he had to work with Phil has done just fine.

mreinman @ 5/1/2016 5:12 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

Your posts are getting worse! Now you're sounding like a Troll again. Why call the Knicks shitty???
You're so F'n sure of yourself but you aren't allowing time for Phil to actually finish doing his job. He hasn't named a coach, hasn't gone thru Free Agency this summer but you've made up your mind already. You don't see how flawed that is.

The Triangle or Triple Post Offense is an evolved system that is full of many different looks. It's been tweaked over many Decades. It's not just one thing. Those who are dissing it mostly don't really know shit about it. They THINK they know but they don't.

There are many different ways to play the game and the Triangle is just one. It's been used effectively at EVERY LEVEL of basketball. Used to win Titles in college and the NBA so what are you complaining about.

As for Phil building a team, he hasn't been building this team for very long despite the way you keep trying to present the facts. When is it ever easy to build a team unless you do a Super Friends like Lebron, Bosh n Wade or KG, Allen n Pierce. It's almost always hard to do. Much harder when you don't have all your picks. Based on what he had to work with Phil has done just fine.

so far the knicks are sh1tty ... you can put whip cream on them but they are still shytty until proven otherwise. You seem to be basing alot on an assumption that he will turn this around and build a winner. Until he does that or at least gets to .500, we are sh1tty. So far, he has done a sh1tty job ... if he stays out his contract and proves people wrong than we will all be happy. Only a selective few are just happy fantasizing or lying to themselves.

You seem to always think that we are and will be better than we end up being.

Is there such a thing as a peachy troll? Can a troll just be one who is a habitual illogical speed poster? Being wrong and screaming at others who are pretty much all much more on target that you are or have been?

People who can think objectively have serious concerns ... please don't troll with silly responses that illogical and homer like to each post. You can just let some go you know ... know need to be all OCD about it.

knicks1248 @ 5/1/2016 5:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:


Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie

Dude he was a coach in LA, part of Phil's staff who ran the triangle. Not sure what you are saying.

right he was a coach in LA. Knows that team's ownership and FO. You implied he didn't want to the coach the Knicks because of the triangle. Isnt that why it was your first statement after posting that tweet? I am not the triangle police, but there is a real fixation around here on it around here. Its LA vs. NY in the winters. He's familiar with that FO. I mean the triangle is the reason he didn't come to the Knicks? Wow man. Guy is offered his dream job and takes it. How about that?

The y Lakers want nthing to do with the triangle for their young players, it's too much of a process, and you need kobe and jordan. Thats why they went with MDA over Phil, and thats why Rambis will never get a head coaching job out side of the knicks.

nixluva @ 5/1/2016 5:54 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:but luke is going to run the GS offense which is really triangle just like the spurs but actually GS runs much more triangle than the spurs so in essence luke is really running the Triangle (in principal of course). See? Told you.

The point is that you do like pop and don't run a specific offense. You run what works and makes sense based on what you have. Now why is that so damn hard to get?

I am sure that there are pieces of the triangle that were pieces of the read and react / motion / princeton offenses. I am sure that many of those principles were adopted by "the triangle" and pops offense and kerr's offense.

I am not sure which experiment has a higher chance of beating the odds for success, forcing the triangle on sh1tty players with a sh1tty coach in the modern era or what Hinkie did. I'll (and probably vegas, sloan, and MIT) will bet on what Hinkie did.

I am still not exactly sure what Phil himself actually wants and believes at this point (other than what nix tells me). He is a brilliant man but brilliant men often get clouded by ego at times. I would really love to see if he picks Rambis over Blatt/other ... will be very telling.

Also, I have this feeling that phil goes after Derozen since he seems like the closest to a kobe / mj type (offensive) potential. That would be quite risky but an all in move.

Putting together a team from scratch is new to phil and obviously not as simple as he thought it would be.

I wonder what grade he would get if polled on the open market.

Your posts are getting worse! Now you're sounding like a Troll again. Why call the Knicks shitty???
You're so F'n sure of yourself but you aren't allowing time for Phil to actually finish doing his job. He hasn't named a coach, hasn't gone thru Free Agency this summer but you've made up your mind already. You don't see how flawed that is.

The Triangle or Triple Post Offense is an evolved system that is full of many different looks. It's been tweaked over many Decades. It's not just one thing. Those who are dissing it mostly don't really know shit about it. They THINK they know but they don't.

There are many different ways to play the game and the Triangle is just one. It's been used effectively at EVERY LEVEL of basketball. Used to win Titles in college and the NBA so what are you complaining about.

As for Phil building a team, he hasn't been building this team for very long despite the way you keep trying to present the facts. When is it ever easy to build a team unless you do a Super Friends like Lebron, Bosh n Wade or KG, Allen n Pierce. It's almost always hard to do. Much harder when you don't have all your picks. Based on what he had to work with Phil has done just fine.

so far the knicks are sh1tty ... you can put whip cream on them but they are still shytty until proven otherwise. You seem to be basing alot on an assumption that he will turn this around and build a winner. Until he does that or at least gets to .500, we are sh1tty. So far, he has done a sh1tty job ... if he stays out his contract and proves people wrong than we will all be happy. Only a selective few are just happy fantasizing or lying to themselves.

You seem to always think that we are and will be better than we end up being.

Is there such a thing as a peachy troll? Can a troll just be one who is a habitual illogical speed poster? Being wrong and screaming at others who are pretty much all much more on target that you are or have been?

People who can think objectively have serious concerns ... please don't troll with silly responses that illogical and homer like to each post. You can just let some go you know ... know need to be all OCD about it.


This is Ultimate Knicks so being a team fanatic is expected. I actually fit the description of the forums purpose more than you at this point. You seem to take glee in bashing the team in every thread. The years when I was more accurate in predicting no one remembers but since the team has more often underachieved it's easy to just stay pessimistic and appear smart even tho no real thought went into it at all.

Here's my take on things. The team is being rebuilt and there were improvements to the roster over what we had last year. Most of your posting doesn't recognize any of this. You were all positive about Hinkie and what he was doing but your own team you call shitty even tho the Knicks are making progress.

So what if I'm more optimistic in my assessment of how many wins the team will get? The team was looking like it had a chance to achieve those goals before the injury bug hit. That was progress for this team. Now we got to see what worked and what is needed. Phil has the means and opportunity to improve this summer.

The team needs are fewer now than they were. You don't seem to acknowledge this either. I'm curious to see how you will react after Phil's moves this summer. Will it be enough for you to be pleased or not. Should be interesting.

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